Why is the Wii U not succeeding?

[Roxas1359]

Bullshotting is a well known practise amongst publishers with few moral scruples and a willingness to lie to their consumers.

...so pretty much a strategy that has been used at least once by every single gaming company then?
People pretty much figured out about the prerendered stuff easily I think, especially since Square has done it more than once before. Heck I go to E3 nowadays and expect to not see gameplay in the trailers now.

 

[Dragonbums]

@Dragonuts

Awesome. My first reply that turned my username around as an insult.

You obviously think I was born yesterday, but that's fine. I don't have to prove anything to Dragon. I know my own mind.

We all do. However when you post something on the internet expect people to present to you a rebuttal to what you say.

I wonder if you dissect, cut and paste your food and poop like you do my post. When you do that, the posting of my view and yours together is a mess, so if you are going to reply, please post your reply.

This is hardly an uncommon way to reply to other users here on the Escapist. I have seen it done to others, and it has been done to me as well.
It is actually more helpful for users because I quote the thing you say, and reply underneath with my own opinion. On that note, yes. I have indeed replied to you with an actual response from me.

On the CGI bit I said MOST not ALL, can you not read and understand? Do you understand the difference between MOST and ALL. Doesn't make it a bad sentence at all. You just fail to understand what I'm saying. If I said ALL, you'd have a point and not me.

And it still stands as untrue. Whether you said most, or not is irrelevant. Bottom line is that the majority of games even today still use CGI heavily. Whether it be in trailers, advertisements, or conferences. When you say only a "few" games do this you are either ignorant, or purposefully lying.

With regards to this part, pay attention to the 'with their own perks.' Think man, think. That means exclusives too, you donut.

Let me just italicize what you said in your previous post. "so one day we can ignore the box labels and just play and enjoy games on each, with their own perks."

In order for somebody to ignore the box labels and simply play the games we enjoy, there would have to be no exclusives on any of the systems. Because once you have an exclusive, you immediately have to pay attention to box labels so you know that the console your getting has the exclusives you desire. That is not a perk for the consumer. That is a perk for the console manufacturers.

Exclusive are a nice but a dwindling field,

No they are not.

that's why its better for a game to be multi-format.

Based on what proof? Bayonetta was a multiplatform game and it didn't save the IP from basically tanking in sales on release.
On the other hand Mario makes sales that many multi platform games wish they can have and those games are restricted only to Nintendo platforms.

More formats covered equals higher sales and costs of development eased and more potential return.

Once again, that is not true. Games being on multiple platforms have never meant they made more money.
Costs of development are not exactly cheap. They have to dissect the architecture of each console and optomize for both. Often times it can cost more money. I highly doubt EVERYTHING is going to be built the same for the PS4 and Xbone.

I could reply to you more (would love to as I do have answers), but I'm not going to answer any more, because I dislike this cut and paste way of posting and shows you haven't really read my piece as a whole and understood it.

It doesn't matter how one replies to your post. I could of replied to the whole thing uncut and still not "read" your post.
I have read your post, and replied to it as such. And you are upset because I'm not agreeing with you. Simple as that.

I make use of paragraphs for a reason to keep things together and easier for the reader.

And those readers can easily look at your original post a couple of replies back.

Question is do you want the answers?

Unless you are a developer or someone who works in the game industry, you cannot prove anything as total fact cut, clean and dry.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Once again, that is not true. Games being on multiple platforms have never meant they made more money.
Costs of development are not exactly cheap. They have to dissect the architecture of each console and optomize for both. Often times it can cost more money. I highly doubt EVERYTHING is going to be built the same for the PS4 and Xbone.

That is ultimately a weirdly contradictory thing that has happened in gaming as of late. Being multi-platform SHOULD allow a game more money, but the thing is it's more like it merely increases the POTENTIAL of profit. Being on multiple platforms doesn't help THAT much if your game's budget has gone out of control. Meanwhile, Nintendo has more exclusive software than anyone and they regularly turn profits on their games. I just don't GET why developers refuse to slow down and go lower with their budgets.

 

[Kittyhawk]

@Dragonbums

Perhaps but I don't need to use it. Using @Dragonuts works for me, thanks. As for your name, I didn't mean it as an insult. I just forgot what it was so injected humour dossage.

On the contrary, I have replies for his/her last post. I'll add number so you tell them apart. okay.

1: The PS3 has been a problem for devs to grasp, but its also a console that has been out for seven years. Do anything for seven years and it gets easier as time passes. Take a look at early PS3 games (Naughty Dog's Uncharted if you like for example) and compare it to The Last of Us, which was released of late. The leaps and bounds are only too clear to see and experience.

2: How do I know what I know? Well, I know some folk who work in games for one. The rest is all me I'm afraid as a gamer, industry watcher and PC user since 1995. Wii U is holding not just devs but the industry back, because its still largely tweaked busted GC tech (GC came out in 2001, its now 2013 and in that time a lot changes with dev tools). Its not better than the 360 I'm afraid. 360 still has a standard hard drive, in various sizes and prices, making development easier for devs. Seven years of talent, versus potentially backtrack of that talent onto a system dev/pubs have less confidence in and the least said about the tablet controller, few can find a use for is a problem, the better.

Dislikes of devs/pubs with Nintendo include licensing their proprietary media. Many devs/pubs got stung by this stuff for as long as Nintendo have been making consoles going way back to the NES/SNES days, and many aren't as eager to get back on that boat, doubly so if their Wii U games don't shift enough units. This is also one reason why many devs/pubs have thrived on under PS and MS (eg EA. Devs/pubs have bothered and considered Wii U as an option but they weigh up their costs and see its not worth it for them, because of a low userbase. Overall the Wii U being technically two inches in front of 360 matters not, when dev people still have to backtrack their skills to develop for it, because its barely on par with the current gen (note I say barely because of reason like the lack of hard drive, standard hd, standard offline/online play etc). The lack of standard Wii U hard drive also plays into why Wii U is missing out on much DLC content other systems have no problem catering for. Reading off the large Wii U media discs can't solve a problem like that, leaving usb sticks and externals as an option.

The importance of a hard drive shouldn't be muted, (sure, it might not matter for Nintendo's stuff, good for them) especially where third parties are concerned. Skyrim, Fallout 3, GTA, Batman, Splinter Cell etc, give reason for one, as they help devs out a lot during development and after too. DLC content is lacking IMO on Wii U because there's no standardized Nintendo checked hard drive available. Only so many devs will trust an external device from joe bloggs (no one wants to be hacked). PCs have external drives, but they can be checked by the nature of a PC's abilities online/offline etc.

The Wii U tablet is also a big stumbling block. Its like being given lead and asked to make gold, when you are doctor. And I expect Nintendo would stipulate it has to be used with third party games to justify it, when many devs would probably rather use a normal controller. In a similar way to Kinect, its use will be small and limited at best, hence few games coming out, except for mostly Nintendo ones. As for freedom, that's always been a better place under Sony and later on MS (PC too), than it ever once was under Nintendo's draconian industry rule. Take a look at the PS1 era for evidence of that.

3: I mentioned PS Vita exactly because of the proprietary memory card price problem. They could have used more standard memory cards but they saw a chance to sting customers again and took it. It hasn't help PS Vita sales as you can see.

4: With regards to bad hardware/tech on Nintendo's part, I disgree. They could have done more about it, while they are not an MS or Sony. The components of a console or PC are made buy other companies that Nintendo could have gotten to know better, and eased their transition. Remember, they have billions in the bank, but money is not always for saving. I'm sure many of those companies would love to work with Nintendo, but alas no. And when even mobile phones are bothering with tech and your Nintendo home consoles are not, Nintendo have become the games industry tech Luddites, thus holding the rest of the industry (especially the japanese side, as many out there, follow their steps to a degree) back.

That's four answers in a bit of detail for you. I'll try to add more later if you aren't sleeping yet.

 

[Dragonbums]

Perhaps but I don't need to use it. Using @Dragonuts works for me, thanks.

That can also be reported for flaming since you are basically at this point deciding to insult the person you are arguing with right out of the gate.

1: The PS3 has been a problem for devs to grasp, but its also a console that has been out for seven years. Do anything for seven years and it gets easier as time passes. Take a look at early PS3 games (Naughty Dog's Uncharted if you like for example) and compare it to The Last of Us, which was released of late. The leaps and bounds are only too clear to see and experience.

The same could also be said for the Wii U. It seems that the few third party developers that tried have had no problems wit hit outside of install base, and those exclusive to Nintendo have created some wonderful games.
If you are going to say PS3 got easier over time to develop because devs took the time to work with the system, the same could be said for the Wii U.
As it stands now, nobody wants to try to develop for it- or at the least see how it works, so naturally devs will still complain after all this time about how difficult it is to make games for the Wii U.

2: How do I know what I know? Well, I know some folk who work in games for one. The rest is all me I'm afraid as a gamer, industry watcher and PC user since 1995. Wii U is holding not just devs but the industry back, because its still largely tweaked busted GC tech (GC came out in 2001, its now 2013 and in that time a lot changes with dev tools). Its not better than the 360 I'm afraid. 360 still has a standard hard drive, in various sizes and prices, making development easier for devs. Seven years over talent versus potentially backtrack of that talent onto a system dev/pubs have less confidence and the least said about the tablet controller, few can find a use for is a problem.

And who might these game devs be? Are they an entire studio, or one cog in a machine?
The Wii U is holding the gaming industry back?
Really?
A single console- is holding THE gaming industry back? Are you serious with this right now? This will only make sense if the Wii U was the only video game console in the entire industry.
It's not much better than the 360? How many times do people have to post comparison specs of the 360 and Wii U? It is much better than the 360. It will not however, be stronger than the upcoming Xbone and PS4 systems.
What do you mean the Wii U doesn't have a standard hard drive? I like how you keep avoiding jeffers questions. Because last time I checked the Wii U either came with 8GB of hard drive or 32GB of hard drive. Why does space even matter for any dev outside of indie games? Last time I checked, game memory is stored in the CD. Not the console. So explain to me why CD space is less important than console hard drive space which again- will only be used for downloaded titles anyway.

If a developer cannot honestly wrap their heads around a a touch screen gamepad- especially when the Nintendo DS- the most popular handheld platform in the world has been out since over a decade now, I think the lack of creativity and talent is on the developer front. Not the console.

Dislikes of devs/pubs with Nintendo include licensing their proprietary media. Many devs/pubs got stung by this stuff for as long as Nintendo have been making consoles going way back to the NES/SNES days, and many aren't as eager to get back on that boat, doubly so if their Wii U games don't shift enough units. This is also one reason why many devs/pubs have thrived on under PS and MS (eg EA. Devs/pubs have bothered and considered Wii U as an option but they weigh up their costs and see its not worth it for them, because of a low userbase. Overall the Wii U being technically two inches in front of 360 matters not, when dev people still have to backtrack their skills to develop for it, because its barely on par with the current gen (note I say barely because of reason like the lack of hard drive. The lack of standard Wii U hard drive also plays into why Wii U is missing out on much DLC content other systems have no problem catering for. Reading off the large Wii U media dicsc can't solve a problem like that, leaving usb sticks and externals as an option.

Backtrack their skills in what exactly? If the Wii U is just as strong (which is not. It's stronger) than the Xbox 360, they wouldn't be backtracking anything. They would- at worst- be doing the same thing as they have been doing for seven years. No back tracking at all.
Nintendo has been very hands off with third party developers and their IP's. I'm sorry that they had a seal of approval back all those years.
EA gave the middle finger to Nintendo because Nintendo refused to put Origin on their online features for the Wii U pre launch of the game. EA, decided to act like children and took their shit ball and go home. No loss on anyone's part because EA killed Sim City, ruined Mass Effect, and has been responsible for shutting down many good studios.
DLC content has been abused and exploited to all hell by third party developers this generation. Getting all the DLC for Mass Effect 2 has been stated to cost over $60.00 in one go. If game devs need that much space for DLC then chances are you probably aren't getting a full game anyway. Not to mention the fact that considering how most DLC downloads are simple things like map packs, armor, or slightly more story content, they wouldn't take up that much space anyway.(or at least they shouldn't) Also Nintendo themselves have done DLC. They do it sparingly however. The only game to really get it is Fire Emblem: Awakening, and even then Iwata stated that he will only implement it in a game when it actually benefits the players.
The disk space is indeed a problem. But only for huge titles like Final Fantasy. I highly doubt many games will hit the Wii U disk limit. Assassins Creed Black Flag doesn't have a problem with disk space and that is anything but a cheap game.

The importance of a hard drive shouldn't be muted, (sure, it might not matter for Nintendo's stuff, good for them) especially where third parties are concerned. Skyrim, Fallout 3, GTA, Batman, Splinter Cell etc, give reason for one, as they help devs out a lot during development and after too. DLC content is lacking IMO on Wii U because there's no standardized Nintendo checked hard drive available. Only so many devs will trust an external device from joe bloggs (no one wants to be hacked). PCs have external drives, but they can be checked by the nature of a PC's abilities online/offline etc.

Once again, the Wii U comes with either 8 GB of hard drive or 32 GB of hard drive. I fail to see how that is in any way non standardized.
Last time I checked I can take a CD version of Skyrim with my stuff in it, put it in someone else's Xbox and still play my Skyrim game.
All games are now in the disc. Including the save files. I cannot find anywhere on my Wii or 3DS a little section that says "Mario Galaxy save file" those have been gone since the Gamecube era.
Once again, DLC is not the future of gaming. Nintendo only utilizes DLC when it actually benefits the game. If they can put it in the game they will. They aren't going to cut pieces out of the game like some studios did this gen and sell it to you for $10.00. No one is really complaining about Nintendo not doing DLC anyway because their games tend to be stuffed with content and well worth the money you payed for.
Also, a console is not a PC. I really wish people would stop comparing consoles to PCs. They have their respective fields.

The Wii U tablet is also a big stumbling block. Its like being given lead and asked to make gold, when you are doctor. And I expect Nintendo would stipulate it has to be used with third party games to justify it, when many devs would probably rather use a normal controller. In a similar way to Kinect, its use will be small and limited at best, hence few games coming out, except for mostly Nintendo ones. As for freedom, that's always been a better place under Sony and later on MS (PC too), than it ever once was under Nintendo's draconian industry rule. Take a look at the PS1 era for evidence of that.

Wii U game pad is not a stumbling block. Do not confuse trying something different in how one plays games with something being a stumbling block. If they don't want to use the game pad they can simply make a game that utilizes the wii mote or the pro controller.
It is not like being given lead and asking to make gold. That is ridiculous. The minimum thing a game dev has to do for the table is slap a menu screen on it. Those who are more creative like Wii U indie developer games, and other highly creative devs like Platinum games have no issues thinking up fun and creative ways to use the game pad in their games.
Wow. Good job referring to the long dead Nintendo imperialism of the 1990's and trying to claim Nintendo is still the same today. And what freedom exactly, does Sony and Microsoft offer? Freedom to add online passes? Freedom to sell half finished games? Freedom to charge gamers for online mode? Freedom to charge ridiculous amounts for DLC map packs? Yes. They most certainly have a lot of freedom to act like corporate pigs.
Bayonetta 2 an IP exclusive to Wii U has all the freedom to add as much crotch shots, gore, stripper dancing fun as they want on the Wii U. The only thin Nintendo monitors is their gameplay quality, and the head devs of Platinum have stated that it's pleasant working under them.
Rare themselves even back then have stated that they had a lot of fun working under Nintendo. So really, I don't know where this "draconian" rule of other people games has come from. Aside from quality control which was a huge ass deal for Nintendo back then.

3: I mentioned PS Vita exactly because of the proprietary memory card price problem. They could have used more standard memory cards but they saw a chance to sting customers again and took it. It hasn't help PS Vita sales as you can see.

Then why did you never mention that in your original post? If I remember correctly you stated that nobody like the Vita's memory card because the architecture was too hard to work on for devs. Nowhere in that statement did you bring up anything relating to the cost of the card.

4: With regards to bad hardware/tech on Nintendo's part, I disgree. They could have done more about it, while they are not an MS or Sony. The components of a console or PC are made buy other companies that Nintendo could have gotten to know better, and eased their transition. Remember, they have billions in the bank, but money is not always for saving. I'm sure many of those companies would love to work with Nintendo, but alas no. And when even mobile phones are bothering with tech and your Nintendo home consoles are not, Nintendo have become the games industry tech Luddites, thus holding the rest of the industry (especially the japanese side, as many out there, follow their steps to a degree) back.

Of course they could have done more about it. However Nintendo strives to be the most affordable console. New and emerging tech has never been affordable. It has always been expensive.
Money is not always for saving. However they are a frugal company, and often like to save. They are also in it for the long term. They aren't going to throw their money at something that they aren't positively sure is going to work at least decently.
Also they have been using that money.
They have slowly started to expand.
Once again, Nintendo is not capable of single handedly holding back the gaming industry.
You have two other competitors that are pushing tech monstrosities for the good of gaming. Or whatever the fuck devs want to do this gen. Meaning that Nintendo dicking around with average tech isn't moving gaming forward, but it certainly isn't holding them back.
Graphical capabilities aren't the only thing that makes a good game. Nobody gave a shit about the fact that ME3 had awesome graphics. The story was shit and that's all the fans needed to give the thing a score of 3 on Metacritic.

 

[Brian Tams]

Its because there's not enough third party interest in the Wii U, which sucks because third party developers have said that they aren't interested until more gamers by a Wii U.

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Its almost like Nintendo got dealt a bad hand this generation.

 

[Kittyhawk]

@jeffers

Sorry dude, wasn't talking to you. Post was for Dragonbum. I'll wait for her to answer, while I know what to expect.

No point in wasting my time here as its clear you don't want to reasoned thought provoking discussion, just brow beat and chest pump, your point while dismissing others and not thinking beyond your nose. You are right about everything, and I'm totally wrong and know nothing. Lol. Perhaps I'll converse with others instead.

As you were.

@Brain Tams

No dude, Nintendo made their system so they only have themselves to blame, no one else. There's huge difference between Wii U apathy and the kind of feedback Sony were getting at E3 from all devs. When was the last time Nintendo got the high same reception? Damn long misty time ago.

 

[RaNDM G]

The Wii U isn't hurting on number of games. A glance at the Wikipedia page will tell you Nintendo already has an impressive library.

Here's the problem though. None of those titles stand out.

Nintendo has the opposite problem as the Dreamcast. Whereas Sega had a hard time drumming up third-party support at launch, Nintendo held back on the first party. Yes, the Wii U has Nintendo Land, New Super Mario Bros. U, and third-party exclusives like Scribblenauts and Lego City. But this isn't the nineties and Mario alone can't sell a system like he used to. The console's library is made up of ports, and when everyone who would be interested in buying a game already has a copy, what's the point of buying a new console?

That's why all these third-party publishers are jumping ship on Nintendo's home console. They can't make a profit on a system no one is interested in. The only thing making the Wii U worthwhile is the eShop, which has some brilliant titles on sale. But again, no first-party support, no buyers.

Nintendo has Smash Bros., Super Mario Land, Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, and Wind Waker HD on the way which may turn things around for them. But we have nothing announced from Nintendo's other IPs. Right now Nintendo is putting its money on the 3DS and Wii, hoping revenue from those systems will carry them through until the heavy hitters come.

Xbox One is looking to have the same problems as well. The only launch exclusives gaining any real interest are Dead Rising 3 and Ryse, with no other noteworthy exclusives hitting the launch window. Not to mention all the social fallout from their retracted policies. Like with the Wii U, a lot of players are going to stick with the 360 while they wait and see how Microsoft's first year shapes up.

PS4 seems to be in the best shape this year with Killzone, inFamous, The Order, and experimental games like Knack, The Crew, Octodad and others rounding out the launch window. Ubisoft has a real hard-on for Sony as well, so they'll be pushing Assassin's Creed IV and Watch Dogs for that system. Hard to say how they will fare a year from now, but Sony is in a comfortable spot.

 

[Tupolev]

Bollocks. It's not using x86 architecture, sure, but there's no way you can say a console using a modern Radeon-based GPU and PowerPC CPU is still dependent on Gamecube architecture.

Yeah, I'm not sure why people are making that claim. I can understand why they say it about the CPU, as Espresso is in some ways descended from Gecko's design goals and ISA. Latte is flat-out nothing like Flipper, though. It's not like the shading architecture is still a texgen+TEV pipe, or something silly like that.

Last I checked, the 360 Arcade still worked with all 360 games, despite having only 256mb of storage space.

With caveats. There was a bit of funny business that happened around devs that wanted to use the HDD as a real-time cache. For instance, Bungie gave a talk about Halo 3's audio tech revealing that using a console without an HDD would result in fewer sound permutations.

That sort of issue is unlikely with the WiiU's SKUs, though.

Once developers get to know the architecture, it can easily manage things the PS360 never managed to do this generation, such as tesselation and deferred lighting.

Deferred lighting is fairly common on PS360 these days, and a few 360 games do use Xenos' tesselator. Actually, Halo Reach uses both; deferred lighting apparantly helped achieve the game's large number of dynamic lights, while the tesselator is used in the water system to allow for dynamic mesh density.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

@jeffers

Sorry dude, wasn't talking to you. Post was for Dragonbum. I'll wait for her to answer, while I know what to expect.

No point in wasting my time here as its clear you don't want to reasoned thought provoking discussion, just brow beat and chest pump, your point while dismissing others and not thinking beyond your nose. You are right about everything, and I'm totally wrong and know nothing. Lol. Perhaps I'll converse with others instead.

For something to make thought provoking conversation, there actually has to have something to talk about, your no better than he(jeffers) is other than he has some actual facts from sources while you pull from....somewhere. You just make claims and wild accusation in which people have to correct. Why do you refuse to rebuttal his rebuttal, that is not how conversation works. If you came here to expect people to just listen to you without any evidence then dismissing people when they talk to you, than I will say that you do know nothing, welcome to the internet.

 

[TomPreston]

Because all the developers that were going to have exclusive launch titles jumped ship and left the Wii-U with no games for almost a year and a half. A time that Nintendo was counting on 3rd party companies to fill in the game between launch and all their 1st party games. Pretty much the exact same thing that happened to the Wii.

Bad branding as well, as your stupid average consumer didn't realize that the Wii-U was an entirely new console and not an add-on to their original Wii.

 

[Korolev]

Very little third-party support. Nintendo's first-party games are all good... but there aren't even that many of those at the moment. When a new Super Mario comes out, or a new Zelda, you can expect sales to pick up. Until then..... expect sales to be pretty bad. Also, what few third-party titles exist on the WiiU are more often than not ports of games that came to the PC, 360 and PS3 a while ago.

I don't want the WiiU to fail. I'm not happy that it is doing poorly. I want it to succeed, so that I can play more good games. But Nintendo shot themselves in the foot - they released an underpowered system, expecting to bank on the new controller. But the casual crowd that snapped up the Wii first of all remembers how little they actually bothered with it after a month, and they are confused by the dual screens. Also, the casual crowd all play games on their phones these days. The core-gamer crowd have played most of the third-party games that have come out for the Wii, and see no reason to buy one until Nintendo releases its Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc, games.

 

[Dragonbums]

@jeffers

Sorry dude, wasn't talking to you. Post was for Dragonbum. I'll wait for her to answer, while I know what to expect.

No point in wasting my time here as its clear you don't want to reasoned thought provoking discussion, just brow beat and chest pump, your point while dismissing others and not thinking beyond your nose. You are right about everything, and I'm totally wrong and know nothing. Lol. Perhaps I'll converse with others instead.

I have already replied to you with in depth responses.
You cannot tell somebody on a public forum that they are not involved with the conversation. Jeffers has every right to respond to you. So does everyone else who browses this thread. You post something on this thread, you bet as all hell someone- anyone can reply to you. You don't get to pick and choose who joins the conversation.

I find it funny that you still managed to dismiss everything jeffers has said as brow beating and chest pumping when he even went to the length of finding interviews of people who worked on the Wii U system to rebuttal your claims.
Meanwhile you make wildly ridiculous claims like stating that game devs need hardware space to store their games. A limitation that has not existed on any home console since the Xbox/Gamecube/PS2 era, and third party devs always thrive on multi platform systems even though these past few years have seen some of the largest closings/bankruptcies of prominent third party studios like THQ, with the biggest ones- EA barely managing to keep themselves in the black.

You are not looking for conversation. You are looking for people to simply nod their head and listen to you like you are some kind of authority in the gaming industry. Anyone who so much as brings up a rebuttal to your points is labelled as narrow minded(which is pretty narrow in and of itself hypocritically.) and you either dismiss their points completely, ramble about things you didn't say or bring up in the previous post, or ignore them.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Okay, if you say so, you clearly have all the answers, Jeffers and Dragon. You all have your view and I have mine. While I can try to see things from your point of view (and I have tried), I feel you fail to do the same for me, so we'll leave this alone. I'll agree to disagree with you both on somethings.

I'm done. Feel free to block me as I'm not going to spend time descending into arguing with you, cause that's not why I'm here.

 

[Dragonbums]

Okay, if you say so, you clearly have all the answers, Jeffers and Dragon. You all have your view and I have mine. While I can try to see things from your point of view (and I have tried), I feel you fail to do the same for me, so we'll leave this alone. I'll agree to disagree with you both on somethings.

I'm done. Feel free to block me as I'm not going to spend time descending into arguing with you, cause that's not why I'm here.

Once again, you fail to use the reply button so we actually know your talking to us.

Also blocking is rare on the Escapists and assuming that we would do such a thing over this probably means that you didn't have high regards to our internet maturity.
On that note I see plenty of people who don't like the Wii U and I can understand perfectly fine why (even though I will still defend the system).
No body is claiming to know everything, but the points you bring were often inaccurate or just didn't make any sense, and yet you are trying to bring this in as fact. That isn't going to work in any conversation online or off.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Hey if you answer that question Nintendo will hire you and you can displace Michael Pachter, the smug prick that he is.

I would wager that a few things figure into this.

1. Low Software sales. This is kind of obvious, as low unit sales means that you can't sell much software. Of course without good software it is hard to sell the hardware. Bit of a chicken and the egg thing but bottom line is Nintendo needs to get quality first party titles out.
Nintendo themselves have made it clear they did not anticipate how much harder it is to make HD games, remember that this is the first time they have been making HD games, as their Wii games where SD. So it has taken them longer to complete games. If they can put out some quality, must have titles I think the WiiU will not be a complete wash.

2. The gimmick. The hardware gimmick of the Wii, the motion controls, was something simple and intuitive. You picked up the controller, waggled it at the screen, and stuff happened. The current gimmick, the tablet controller, is less intuitive. First of all you only get the one per system, which means younger kids may fight over it. It is less intuitive to understand how one person using the tablet while others use the controller is going to be a good thing for playing a game, but it definitely can be.
This also makes the platform less attractive to third party developers I believe, because with Xbone, PS4, and PC they can design around similar control schemes, but on the WiiU they will feel pressured to utilize the tablet controller. Nintendo may even require its use on any games approved for publishing.

3. Timing. The timing was all wrong on the WiiU. You can't get away with being the low end hardware every generation. While people still argue about this the WiiU hardware is clearly about on par with or a little bit better than the Xbox 360 and PS3. People don't want last generation performance, they've had that for about eight years now and they are ready for something more. So the early adopters, the core gamers, figured they'd just wait for the significantly faster machines that are coming out this Christmas. The Xbone and PS4 are both very similar to each other, more similar than any other consoles in history, and very similar to the PC too. Development costs are through the roof and it sounds like porting between Xbone, PS4 and PC is going to be very easy, whereas the WiiU uses a completely different architecture chip, IBM POWER7+. So not only is is significantly under-powered but it is the only next gen platform not using x86 instruction set.

Honesly Nintendo has a HUGE battle to fight. Their WiiU is down in the dumps, flop would not be too big a word for the reception of that console. They have to either be very aggressive with first party games or they have to think about a brand new console. Otherwise they may just want to drop the console and just go into publishing. They say that is not going to happen but it could be done and you can only support a failing product for so long.

 

[xaszatm]

When the new Smash Bros gets released, sales for the system will probably skyrocket.

You'd think they'd bring something like that out on release rather than letting it fester like this.

Not really, considering Sakurai and the Smash Bros guys at HAL released Kid Icarus in March of last year, and they'll want at least a couple of years to get the new Smash ready to go.

No Nintendo system has ever launched with Smash before, so it's not exactly surprising now that it's a 2014 release.

Uh, I know this is a semi-old quote but wasn't Melee a launch title for the Gamecube?