Why is there debate about used games?

[Saxnot]

Escapists, please help me understand something: why are people arguing that used games are bad? like any other product, you pay money for them, then they are yours, and you can do what you want with them.

By what jump in space-logic does anyone think there is justification for trying to stop you from excercising your ownership of a game?

I understand the companies, at least: they are just fishing for bigger profits. But why do people accept this blatant thievery on the part of publishers? Why are people so accepting of getting ripped off? it just does not make sense to me.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

Technically, when you buy a game used, none of that money goes to the developers. People say that's worse piracy because they didn't see any of the money and someone who had nothing to do with the development got all the profits. That's the argument that people use, though that's silly because obviously a game had to have been bought new to begin with. I'm not exactly sure what all money goes where, but by that logic places like Goodwill are evil.

 

[Baralak]

That's pretty much it. People think it's worse than piracy because none of the money goes to the developers. Except it did. When it was bought new. Said person that bought it new decided they didn't want it any more, so they sold it, which they're allowed to do. Because they own the game. As far as the developers are concerned, they didn't lost a sale, it was a trade. By the developer's logic, like ProfessorLayton said, places like Goodwill are evil. According to the developers, my friend saying " Hey, I didn't like this game, you want it?" Is worse than me going out and downloading a torrent.

 

[burningdragoon]

Used games are inherently fine and dandy. As long as you aren't copying the data on the disc before returning it there is no (or should be no) grey area on the matter. Anyone who says otherwise is a dumby mcdumbface. Or is a creator and feels the sting of a used market.

If you don't mind (or even if you do ) I'ma just repost what I said last time, cuz I'm tired.

I said this last (and recent) Used game thread, but how but in brief list form this time?


No, Used game is not the same thing as piracy. Anyone who says so is dumb
Yes, people should be able to buy/sell their used games as they want
Yes, used games are a cause for concern for developers/publishers

Gamestop gets to sell games for decent profit several times over due to generally little decrease in value per trade in, something most used markets have differently


Yes, they care about money. That's how business works. They should want to make money by making quality products though, not by ransoming content.


There, that sums up my feelings on this debate. I'd like to think that's a pretty solid stance.

 

[Baralak]

I stand by the thought that developers are becoming entitled pricks. " Oh, woe is us! People are stealing by buying used games! Now we'll starve in the street!" Bull. Look at the numbers games movie and how much profit they make. You don't see the music industry complaining about used CD sales, and I could LITERALLY, buy it, rip it to my laptop and phone, then give the CD to whoever I want, be it a friend, a coworker, Goodwill, or FYE.

 

[Xeorm]

They're expensive, and they don't lose much value at all when they're traded in versus many other products. So, they lose revenue and to fight it they need to change their design. One-off games aren't really worth producing, rather multiplayer and multiple endings are being encouraged.

Really, it's also a "You can pirate it for free, but instead you're paying a store money? Why pay if it's not going towards making more/better games?"

 

[TephlonPrice]

TL;DR version:

Game companies don't see a profit from sales of used games. Apparently it's worse than piracy because devs & publishers don't see a dime of their return - despite the fact used games can help ensure new buyers & new parties might be interested. Devs & publishers believe they can have full & total rights to a game long after a user has purchased the product, when in fact, when I buy the product, it's no longer in their hands. I have full control of the product & I can do as I wish.

If it means selling it someone to make some money back off it or giving it to someone to try out or keep, I still have control on the product. Too bad industry thinks otherwise, with things like game accounts, DLC galore, excessive online passes & all that.

However, this shit also affects another market: the rental market. As in cats who rent a game for a few bucks, find out they want or don't want it, instead of spending the full price & getting butt-fucked when I find out it's trash.

 

[Saxnot]

If there were no used game sales, more people would have paid that money directly to the developer to play the game. Instead, the opportunity to play a game comes cheaper, so that option is chosen and the profits from a used game go to a corporation (Gamestop, Best Buy, Gamefly Used Games, etc.), not the developer/publisher.

Sure, you can give a jacket to a thrift shop and they can sell it, but video games are a completely different product. The quantity of games sold is massive, so this is a large chunk of business that is lost.

but what makes games different? there is a used market for just about every single thing in the world that can be reused.

They aren't losing business, because used games are not their business. They sell new games, then they give up the right to those games. That is how selling things works. They are trying to steal from you by convincing you they need to be payed twice.

They're expensive, and they don't lose much value at all when they're traded in versus many other products. So, they lose revenue and to fight it they need to change their design. One-off games aren't really worth producing, rather multiplayer and multiple endings are being encouraged.

Really, it's also a "You can pirate it for free, but instead you're paying a store money? Why pay if it's not going towards making more/better games?"

Because them making more/better games is not your concern. They make a game, then you buy it, or not. You don't have any responsibility for the continued existence of a company.

These companies are acting as if they are some kind of charity:
'If you give us money we'll be able to continue this good thing we are doing.'

But they're not a charity. They already get payed for this good thing they're doing. When we buy their games. It's just such an obvious guilt - trip ploy to make you think you're doing wrong by being part of the economy.

 

[Something Amyss]

Escapists, please help me understand something: why are people arguing that used games are bad? like any other product, you pay money for them, then they are yours, and you can do what you want with them.

Because companies have cultivated fanboyism over the years, and they started claiming it as akin to piracy. Naturally, fanboys will parrot this.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Escapists, please help me understand something: why are people arguing that used games are bad? like any other product, you pay money for them, then they are yours, and you can do what you want with them.

By what jump in space-logic does anyone think there is justification for trying to stop you from excercising your ownership of a game?

I understand the companies, at least: they are just fishing for bigger profits. But why do people accept this blatant thievery on the part of publishers? Why are people so accepting of getting ripped off? it just does not make sense to me.

.
Because the ones that profit from used games are the retailers, the middlemen... The ones that doesn't make the product, only distributes it. The money doesn't come to the developer when a used game is sold, unless you're a dick and there's a 10 dollar pass for multi-player or more content.

 

[Something Amyss]

Really, it's also a "You can pirate it for free, but instead you're paying a store money? Why pay if it's not going towards making more/better games?"

Of course, piracy is illegal, whereas the used market is legal and has a court-determined right to exist.

So that sounds really silly. "You mean you're paying money to do something legal instead of illegally downloading?"

Yeah, they are. I'm not sure why the two are so oft compared. Sure, the company sees money off neither, but that is just about where the comparison ends. Hell, even that tends not to be completely true, as the used market helps feed the new market. Going after the used market is kind of like poisoning your own food supply.

But really, why would someone want to legally acquire a game when they could break the law and acquire it free? Really? Do you really want that to be your standing argument?

 

[Something Amyss]

Because people are so used to games being shit and that they're not worth keeping. So naturlich, they sell them... And the distributors ***** about it.

Isn't it weird that in an era of disposable games, companies complain about people disposing of them?

(Edited to add "of." Don't know how I missed it)

 

[Saxnot]

Escapists, please help me understand something: why are people arguing that used games are bad? like any other product, you pay money for them, then they are yours, and you can do what you want with them.

By what jump in space-logic does anyone think there is justification for trying to stop you from excercising your ownership of a game?

I understand the companies, at least: they are just fishing for bigger profits. But why do people accept this blatant thievery on the part of publishers? Why are people so accepting of getting ripped off? it just does not make sense to me.

.
Because the ones that profit from used games are the retailers, the middlemen... The ones that doesn't make the product, only distributes it. The money doesn't come to the developer when a used game is sold, unless you're a dick and there's a 10 dollar pass for multi-player or more content.

Yes, but that is how the economy works. Transference of ownership. You have something i want (a game), i give you something you want (money), then your game becomes my game. that is the entirity of my interaction with the company.

Where does this idea come from that publishers have anything to do with this game anymore once they've transferred ownership? Why is gaming so unique in this?

 

[Shpongled]

I have no problem with buying used games at all, but from the developers perspective used game sales have the exact same effect as pirating. You can argue it increases awareness of developers, advertisement and all that, but the same applies to pirating. Logically speaking, if you're against pirating you should also be against used game sales (assuming of course your reason for being against pirating is that it denies the developer profits from the game itself). You could also argue that with second-hand games there needs to be an initial purchase, but this doesn't really hold water either since the fact remains that a given individual is playing the game without giving any money whatsoever to the developer. From the developers perspective, its the same as pirating.

It's a bit of a paradox really, if you're against pirating because it denies developers profit then it's hypocritical to be supportive of used game sales. Hypothetically speaking, if i'm pirating all my games and my friend is buying all his games second-hand, both of us are reaping the benefits of being able to play the game cheaply and neither of us are supporting the developer.

 

[Baralak]

I have no problem with buying used games at all, but from the developers perspective used game sales have the exact same effect as pirating. You can argue it increases awareness of developers, advertisement and all that, but the same applies to pirating. Logically speaking, if you're against pirating you should also be against used game sales (assuming of course your reason for being against pirating is that it denies the developer profits from the game itself). You could also argue that with second-hand games there needs to be an initial purchase, but this doesn't really hold water either since the fact remains that a given individual is playing the game without giving any money whatsoever to the developer. From the developers perspective, its the same as pirating.

It's a bit of a paradox really, if you're against pirating because it denies developers profit then it's hypocritical to be supportive of used game sales. Hypothetically speaking, if i'm pirating all my games and my friend is buying all his games second-hand, both of us are reaping the benefits of being able to play the game cheaply and neither of us are supporting the developer.

Except you're wrong. For a used game to exist, it HAD to be bought new. The developer did get paid for that copy of the game. If I sell my now-used game, I'm not stealing from the developers, because it was bought new. With piracy, that doesn't happen. What happens with piracy is that someone goes into the developers network, steals the game, then puts it up for everyone to get for free. There's a big difference there. The developers are being greedy, entitled morons.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Escapists, please help me understand something: why are people arguing that used games are bad? like any other product, you pay money for them, then they are yours, and you can do what you want with them.

By what jump in space-logic does anyone think there is justification for trying to stop you from excercising your ownership of a game?

I understand the companies, at least: they are just fishing for bigger profits. But why do people accept this blatant thievery on the part of publishers? Why are people so accepting of getting ripped off? it just does not make sense to me.

.
Because the ones that profit from used games are the retailers, the middlemen... The ones that doesn't make the product, only distributes it. The money doesn't come to the developer when a used game is sold, unless you're a dick and there's a 10 dollar pass for multi-player or more content.

Yes, but that is how the economy works. Transference of ownership. You have something i want (a game), i give you something you want (money), then your game becomes my game. that is the entirity of my interaction with the company.

Where does this idea come from that publishers have anything to do with this game anymore once they've transferred ownership? Why is gaming so unique in this?

.
Because shareholders expect a MW2 Hit out of every game made? Yeah...