Why is there such a kneejerk reaction to "indie games"?

[Aprilgold]

Wasnt Half Life 1 published by Sierra up until the end? even when they repeatedly told Valve to cut corners?

Also, The Binding Of Isaac i could label it as arty.
I mean sure, the others brought innovation and are well made (except Minecraft who still needs lots of expanding on central attraction of the game) but TBOI wins the indy arty label just because even when its clearly inspired by Legend of Zelda, it still manages to tell the story by showing us the story through the gameplay items rather than a shitload of cutscenes (the Mom's items, reflect his gender issues, the Wire Coat Hanger suggest an unwanted pregnancy and so on) that will eventually make sense when you see all the endings.

I find your choices very hard to clasify as "casual" games even in the eyes of the most ignorant people. TBOI is hard as shit, Portal needs more IQ than the average BAKA GAIJIN, Minecraft and Terratia you need a shitload of imagination and Cthulhu Saves The World...i have no clue beyond its a humorous 16 bit throw back RPG (maybe its the most standard of all of them?)

Maybe you could have found more examples that fit HIS criteria but are undeniably awesome?

I might have thought of the wrong FPS.

But none the less, he said this and I quote

Because most of them are these shitty artsy casual games.

He has made a GIANT generalization that most Indie games are shitty artsy casual games. Whether you like it or not, The Binding of Isaac is artsy in the same way Doom is artsy. After watching Indie Game the Movie the maker, Edmund McMillen said he enjoyed pushing the boundaries of acceptability, the Binding of Isaac was just his next step in that.

I'm getting off track, point is, he said most indie games are artsy, casual shit and I have pointed out tons of different games that are no more artsy then Call of Duty or Doom.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

Lo there, Weebl.

Lo Bob.

I think having the belief that you are good at what you do is just as important for somebody as a game dev as any other job, but I haven't really seen that many indie devs be overly holier than thou and pretentious.

I do get kind of annoyed with Edmund McMillan from time to time because when he makes an objectively bad change to The Binding of Isaac, he will often refuse to acknowledge it is objectively bad, because he can never see how he can make a wrong choice when it's his game (although I guess he wouldn't put it in the game if he thought it was objectively bad).
That said he's probably still my favourite indie game developer person, because he's just made fucking amazing games.

 

[kingthrall]

snip

*sigh*

Instead of trying and tearing your post apart on the assumption that I actually understand your point I admit it directly:

I can't follow you. I really have no idea what you want to convey to me and instead of smashing our heads in and argue on the internet with a stranger I end this now with a funny story:

The developer of Binding of Isaac admitted in an interview that he never thought that this game could sell. He found the ideas and design to abstract and unfamiliar (and offensive) and thought about putting it on for free somewhere. But after some reassurence he reconsidered and put it in for a joke of a price (somewhat around the amount I have to pay for 1 Guinness in my favorite pub). It sold over 700k times by now and considering that only 3 people worked on it (2 on the game, 1 on the amazing soundtrack) it's quite a lot of dough.

If I still had my spare code from the CE I purchased I'd give it to you so you would not have any excuse left on passing on this amazing game. Hard as hell, great aesthetics and really disturbing (and thoughtprovoking) ending.

I will put it this way, you look at diablo 1. Its dark gothic appearance and blood gruesome and a very westernised feel to it. I look at an indy game and the majority of the time its way too colourful, very asian orientated with the whole final fantasy hair ect.

 

[DioWallachia]

snip

*sigh*

Instead of trying and tearing your post apart on the assumption that I actually understand your point I admit it directly:

I can't follow you. I really have no idea what you want to convey to me and instead of smashing our heads in and argue on the internet with a stranger I end this now with a funny story:

The developer of Binding of Isaac admitted in an interview that he never thought that this game could sell. He found the ideas and design to abstract and unfamiliar (and offensive) and thought about putting it on for free somewhere. But after some reassurence he reconsidered and put it in for a joke of a price (somewhat around the amount I have to pay for 1 Guinness in my favorite pub). It sold over 700k times by now and considering that only 3 people worked on it (2 on the game, 1 on the amazing soundtrack) it's quite a lot of dough.

If I still had my spare code from the CE I purchased I'd give it to you so you would not have any excuse left on passing on this amazing game. Hard as hell, great aesthetics and really disturbing (and thoughtprovoking) ending.

I will put it this way, you look at diablo 1. Its dark gothic appearance and blood gruesome and a very westernised feel to it. I look at an indy game and the majority of the time its way too colourful, very asian orientated with the whole final fantasy hair ect.

And what about Anmesia: The Dark Descent? not horrifying enough? I mean, not to trash anyones work but the branch of horror genre is quite a delicate monstruosity to control (Even the few horror game there are in the mainstream, it seems that they will never surpass what Silent Hill 2 did) So its understandable that there are just a few people trying it rather than other kind of games where you could always anything else and still make a fun game.

With horror, its the sum of everything what makes it work, even the tiny details that build up the tension (That is why, for example, HP.Lovecraft always made detailed descriptions of almost everything)

 

[DioWallachia]

snip

What did he change in the Binding of Isaac that refuses to say its wrong?

 

[ChildishLegacy]

snip

What did he change in the Binding of Isaac that refuses to say its wrong?

He made it so you need the Polaroid trinket (which can be only randomly obtained) to access the final floor of Wrath of the Lamb, meaning your run could be going well enough to actually finish the final floor but because the random number generator says no, you run will be cut short. Pretty sure he said that's set in stone at some point.

 

[DioWallachia]

snip

What did he change in the Binding of Isaac that refuses to say its wrong?

He made it so you need the Polaroid trinket (which can be only randomly obtained) to access the final floor of Wrath of the Lamb, meaning your run could be going well enough to actually finish the final floor but because the random number generator says no, you run will be cut short. Pretty sure he said that's set in stone at some point.

But i believe its essential to the plot to....awaken the final boss. Also there should be plenny of Crystal Ball Machines (or Wheel of Fortune Cards to summon one) during all the course of the game to actually get a Polaroid at last (unless you actually desided to pick up The Tick with Mom's Wallet, in that case you are fucked)

 

[OpticalJunction]

I generally don't care who makes a game and what their personal attitudes are, if the game is fun that's all that really matters. Indie games tend to be low budget and have bad graphics though, if they could work around that I'd play them a lot more. In concept they're usually as good as most AAA titles.

captcha: act of god

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Lo there, Weebl.

Lo Bob.

I think having the belief that you are good at what you do is just as important for somebody as a game dev as any other job, but I haven't really seen that many indie devs be overly holier than thou and pretentious.

I do get kind of annoyed with Edmund McMillan from time to time because when he makes an objectively bad change to The Binding of Isaac, he will often refuse to acknowledge it is objectively bad, because he can never see how he can make a wrong choice when it's his game (although I guess he wouldn't put it in the game if he thought it was objectively bad).
That said he's probably still my favourite indie game developer person, because he's just made fucking amazing games.

Ed is actually really friendly. He's the kind of guy I can see myself being friends with... or, at the least, buying a beer for. He seems like a cool cartoonist/artist dude who really likes making games. But he also really likes meeting fans 'n stuff. Edmund is certainly the kind of indie dev I want to see more of.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

Lo there, Weebl.

Lo Bob.

I think having the belief that you are good at what you do is just as important for somebody as a game dev as any other job, but I haven't really seen that many indie devs be overly holier than thou and pretentious.

I do get kind of annoyed with Edmund McMillan from time to time because when he makes an objectively bad change to The Binding of Isaac, he will often refuse to acknowledge it is objectively bad, because he can never see how he can make a wrong choice when it's his game (although I guess he wouldn't put it in the game if he thought it was objectively bad).
That said he's probably still my favourite indie game developer person, because he's just made fucking amazing games.

Ed is actually really friendly. He's the kind of guy I can see myself being friends with... or, at the least, buying a beer for. He seems like a cool cartoonist/artist dude who really likes making games. But he also really likes meeting fans 'n stuff. Edmund is certainly the kind of indie dev I want to see more of.

Oh definitely, he seems a really down to earth and funny person, when I saw an interview with him in I was extremely surprised because I couldn't see that genuinely nice guy sitting down and making some very disturbing and fucked up games (amazing ones, yet disturbing).

 

[lord.jeff]

I see the attitude go both ways for every AAA game player that says indie games are to artsy and pretentious there is a indie player saying how down dumbed down and copy pasted money grabbing every AAA game is. Both sides are equally stupid, it's not the budget or size of the company that matters it's the final product, I don't give a shit if a games indie or not just that it's fun.

 

[lord.jeff]

I don't play indy games because I don't like the genres.

Indy isn't really a genre, Bastion carries no similarities to Amnesia, I find it hard to hate indie as a whole sense most the games feature no common mechanics.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

A lot of my knee-jerk reactions, I've realized, come from fear.

Fear of a widening gap between the AAA and the indie market with nothing to fill the void. Fear that next generation you either have to pull in a fortune to survive in AAA, or pull in Braid/Fez level retro/art cred to make waves. Fear that more mid-tier developers creating interesting games are gonna disappear in the wake of these extremes.

It's irrational, but I feel it. You gotta be retro-minded in a very specific way to be at the top in the indie market. No one's truly brought back the Elite-style space sim yet. No one's truly brought back the first person dungeon crawler yet. There are odd ones out there, dotting the landscape, but there's a MILLION retro-pixel platformers and point/click adventure games. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough and that's what feeds my irrational fear. But it's there.

I gotta say though...The OP reminded me that these indie devs we love to call pretentious are as human as we are. I wanna take that feeling and give a shout out to all the AAA developers too. God only knows what pressures they face from their publishers that force them to make changes, or how much they really dislike people not seeing the beauty in their visions for one reason or another. We never really know a person and their intentions, nor are we perfect ourselves. I have no reason to believe CoD's developers aren't as passionate and driven as Blow, Fish or McMillen. So here's to them. Honestly, here's to all game devs, big, middle and small. You guys rock my world.

 

[Something Amyss]

"Why do people think fire is hot, just because it burns when they touch it?"

Because people are supposed to approach it with caution. You are supposed to feel warm by it and that is what indie SHOULD be, you should be in the calm and warm realization that there were people that once were like you and were driven mad to give you this fire. Dont forget it kid or otherwise, you may end up like them.

I don't think you understood the question, as that answer doesn't work. I also don't think you understand what "indie" is, based on the rest of your dissertation.