Why is this a stereotype (transgender question)

[Dirty Hipsters]

So, we've switched from whirlpools and dating threads to questions about transgender people. I don't know how that happened but fuck it, I'm rolling with it.

Tippy has a thread up about transgender people and how they deal with the whole locker room situation, and out of that thread I had an interesting thought about a certain stereotype that men deal with that affects transgendered people (specifically male to female).

So, one of the reasons that women sometimes have a problem sharing bathrooms and locker rooms with transgendered individuals is that they feel that they never know if someone is actually transgendered or not, and so a man could use the excuse of being transgendered to go into a bathroom or locker room and spy on naked women.

Now I want to know why this is a thing, and why people think that this is a legitimate concern. Have you ever heard of a straight man dressing up as a woman and pretending to be transgendered in order to go into a women's locker room to see naked woman? Is this a scenario that occurs in real life or is this a situation invented by sitcoms to make fun of the horny teenage boy stereotype? Do you think that any self respecting man would want to see naked women so badly that he would pretend to be transgender even though there are so many easier alternative methods to see boobs?

 

[Fappy]

Makes no sense considering the internet exists, but then I'm not a deranged pervert like some people out there.

Personally, I blame Bugs Bunny.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

I can certainly see it as being a very possible scenario. Looking at some titties that are close up and in the flesh is a lot more exciting than just looking at some on Google, after all. No idea how common it would be, but I imagine it would happen. It's certainly no more extreme than someone climbing down into a long-drop toilet to film women using it (which has happened). Some men will just have no boundary when it comes to seeing tail up close. There's also the "thrill" factor of doing something naughty and possibly getting caught that can add to it - much like why public sex is often popular.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Now I want to know why this is a thing, and why people think that this is a legitimate concern. Have you ever heard of a straight man dressing up as a woman and pretending to be transgendered in order to go into a women's locker room to see naked woman? Is this a scenario that occurs in real life or is this a situation invented by sitcoms to make fun of the horny teenage boy stereotype? Do you think that any self respecting man would want to see naked women so badly that he would pretend to be transgender even though there are so many easier alternative methods to see boobs?

Maybe not that exact scenario, but I've seen enough of high school boys to know that a lot of them wouldn't have moral qualms with it. If anything it'd be the risk, practicality of passing off or demasculation that would be the clincher.

But yeah, anytime there was any sort of viewing portal between the men's and women's changerooms the guys would be lined up behind it to peek in. As well, when we did swimming in PE two guys in our class hid underwater with their snorkels so they could watch the girl's tops come off when they were diving. I have a friend who lived in Cairo and apparently it was so much worse for her with the boys there than the stories I'd heard.

I generally don't go too much with stereotypes, but this is one that happens around that age. A lot.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Now I want to know why this is a thing, and why people think that this is a legitimate concern. Have you ever heard of a straight man dressing up as a woman and pretending to be transgendered in order to go into a women's locker room to see naked woman? Is this a scenario that occurs in real life or is this a situation invented by sitcoms to make fun of the horny teenage boy stereotype? Do you think that any self respecting man would want to see naked women so badly that he would pretend to be transgender even though there are so many easier alternative methods to see boobs?

Maybe not that exact scenario, but I've seen enough of high school boys to know that a lot of them wouldn't have moral qualms with it. If anything it'd be the risk, practicality of passing off or demasculation that would be the clincher.

But yeah, anytime there was any sort of viewing portal between the men's and women's changerooms the guys would be lined up behind it to peek in. As well, when we did swimming in PE two guys in our class hid underwater with their snorkels so they could watch the girl's tops come off when they were diving. I have a friend who lived in Cairo and apparently it was so much worse for her with the boys there than the stories I'd heard.

I generally don't go too much with stereotypes, but this is one that happens around that age. A lot.

All of the situations you've presented are a lot more socially acceptable than a straight man dressing up as a woman and pretending to be transgender to sneak into a women's locker room. I mean, a couple of guys sitting underwater to see girls' tops come off as they dive, there's nothing illegal about that. Pervy? Sure, maybe it would even get them suspended, but it's not something that would get the authorities involved, nor is it something that they would necessarily be looked down on for doing by their own peers. It's one of those "boys will be boys" things that would be mostly overlooked.

And yeah, some people may not have any moral qualms about the scenario, but it's socially unacceptable enough that the threat of discovery and the consequences that would come with it would more than likely be enough of a deterrent.

I still haven't seen anyone post a news story where the discussed scenario took place.

 

[Tiger King]

I am no expert on this and am thus treading lightly with what I say.
So reasons why this could be a concern?
.........uhhh...
How about..... Transsexuals may adopt a new gender but that will not affect their sexuality?
For example a male to female transgender may be attracted to women and vice versa for female to male transsexuals.

However if that is the case then in theory, the people that feel threatened by transexuals, should feel threatened just as much if not more from homosexuals?

Hmm I'm not very good at explaining my ideas on these things very well and can't help but feel I'm stepping into a social rights minefield

 

[Thaluikhain]

Nope. It's something brought up as a useful way of scaring people about transgender people, but I don't remember real cases of trans people becoming trans to do this, because it's rather absurd.

 

[mecegirl]

I have never heard of that scenario happening OP. It's really just fear mongering and sexism. Cuz males are totes sex crazed and would never be able to control themselves around women. /sarcasm

But no, the fact that no one cares about female to male trans individuals trying to peep on men, or even that they don't give as much of a fuck about lesbians trying to peep on women, proves how unfounded the concern is. Unfortunately OP you are more likely to hear stories of trans individuals being beaten/raped/killed than them trying to peep on someone

 

[Angelous Wang]

Now I want to know why this is a thing, and why people think that this is a legitimate concern. Have you ever heard of a straight man dressing up as a woman and pretending to be transgendered in order to go into a women's locker room to see naked woman? Is this a scenario that occurs in real life or is this a situation invented by sitcoms to make fun of the horny teenage boy stereotype? Do you think that any self respecting man would want to see naked women so badly that he would pretend to be transgender even though there are so many easier alternative methods to see boobs?

Because as with anything on this world Transgender does have a twisted side to it.

Whilst majority Transgenders are legitimate "I am X gender was born in the wrong sex body, so I want to change".

There are those that choose to become Transgender (well fake Transgender, "Sissy" is the term most use) out of sexual fetish alone. Most of the time it's just men that want to fucked by other men and/or want to have their masculinity taken from them. But there are also femdom ones out there that want women to find out there "secret" and do the same.

Of course it's a minority. But the human race loves to spread fear and hate about minorities.

 

[Saltyk]

Makes no sense considering the internet exists, but then I'm not a deranged pervert like some people out there.

Personally, I blame Bugs Bunny.

Hey, Bugs is genuinely confused about his gender. And why wouldn't he be? He's a rabbit. Not even vets can tell the gender of a rabbit.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I would guess it's a stereotype because men like to gander at ladies, which I reckon is a stereotype too, but one founded in reality what with all the porn and such.

No, I've never heard of a guy dressing up as a woman and sneaking into their dressing room, but that doesn't mean the fear of it happening is totally unfounded. That doesn't mean there need to be security guards performing screen checks infront of ladies locker rooms, but a situation in which a man does just walk in is clearly within the realm of reality. So a woman changing in a locker room confusing a transgendered person for a man and having the gut reaction of 'report his ass' really doesn't seem like something bafflingly idiotic or terrible transphobic. It's a mistake, and that's all it is.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

But no, the fact that no one cares about female to male trans individuals trying to peep on men, or even that they don't give as much of a fuck about lesbians trying to peep on women, proves how unfounded the concern is.

Well I care. D:

About all those scenarios, actually. Part of being consistent.

I'd likely feel weird about an F to M trans peeping on me. Just like I'd feel weird about an...F from B, I guess- Doing the same. It's about privacy being violated and all that jazz.

Same for a lesbian peeking on women. It's just not cool for someone to peek on the sex they're interested in getting frisky with...or otherwise? Really, it just comes back to privacy and personal comfort being violated.


OT: Haven't seen it in a news story...but wouldn't be surprised if the only requirement was 'claiming' you were trans.

I mean, if you can just sign up for a gym and say, 'oh, yeah, totally a woman trapped in a man's body, so let me use their areas'...then I can see it being abused.

Buuuut, since that's (fuckin' hopefully) not the case and there's something more than the honor system at play, it's likely a non-issue.

Edit: To clarify -_- not suggesting genital inspections or something stupidly hyperbolic, but like...a doctor's/therapist's/psychologist's note isn't too much to ask for, is it?

 

[tippy2k2]

My guess is it's because we've seen plenty of stories about men pretending to be X to see naked ladies plenty of times. Would it be such a stretch that if someone is willing to pretend to be a OBGYN [http://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-caught-pretending-to-be-a-doctor-at-florida-obgyn-office/] that they WOULDN'T be willing to pretend to be transgender?

 

[Tsun Tzu]

...Probably yeah. I mean in your world what do we do about gay people? Assuming we just do the same as this one and trust that gay people are decent human beings not coming to the changing room to get their perv on then we afford trans people the same courtesy.

Well, apples -> oranges.

A G or B person isn't in the opposite sex's locker room either (For...reasons I'm not 100% clear on? Whole other bag of worms with a similar root cause, I'd wager.), so if they're 'faking' then they're just in with the same sex.

I hate to say it, but this might just come down to physical appearance and the immediate conclusions that can be drawn based on readily apparent gender signifiers.

Which sucks.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Nope. It's something brought up as a useful way of scaring people about transgender people, but I don't remember real cases of trans people becoming trans to do this, because it's rather absurd.

I don't think anyone is saying real trans people would do this, real trans people don't "become" trans anyway.

Er, no, that is something lots of people say...it's popular amongst Republican politicians in the US.

 

[DarkWolf901]

If a cis man is going to go into a bathroom to rape women, uh? that's already fucking illegal? so another law wont stop shit, well, except that I'll have to go into the wrong restroom and possibly get raped and murdered, or at the very least harassed, and 'actual' men will be -required- to use the women's bathroom, no one ever seems to think of that for some reason!

I mean really? "we don't want men to use the women's bathroom, so we're going to require men use the women's bathroom"

This is *entirely* a scare tactic designed to hurt trans folk. And it's embarrassing that it's working.

Sorry, I'm very sensitive about these things.