Why Metal Gear Rising was Awful.

[zerkocelot]

Ok, story aside (couldn't stand the talk of nanomachines and conspiracies) The gameplay was terrible. Before I get into it, the damage modelling and dynamic cutting was awesome (big fan of organic mechanics to gameplay [Max Payne 3 Diving, Rag doll instead of pre-canned animations]).

The absence of a standardized block or roll system, and instead relying on a terrible parry system makes my head hurt. As a fighting game enthusiast I need a solid fighting game system with balanced offensive and defensive option as well as a clear cut idea when to use them (i could figure this out with trial and error as well).

But my main complaint had to do with the idea of block stun and hit stun and the terrible balancing of those two concepts in this game. Since it's basically an anime, a boss can teleport around you causing your parry direction to be altered. Not a big deal I can block a crossup just fine after the 3000+ hours I have clocked into playing other fighting games. Too many times would my block only absorb damage, leave me in block stun, and leave the enemy continuing doing stupid dashing slashes with tracking enormous hitboxes on their attacks (See second last boss). And of course they would get me in a corner still teleporting around while my camera is fucking around zooming in and out and rotating around when I'm supposed to accurately parry a teleport slash attack.... FUCK YOU. Since you can only parry outside of a attack animation and because you'll want to move frequently The parry becomes a terrible defensive mechanism being caught up in direction movement inputs as well as directional attack inputs. Meaning I could either walk into an attack or attack an attack (futile vs bosses) all will simply trying to defend myself (After 10 hours with the game this was a common occurance). As well most of the directional inputed attacks have you whizzing around like an anime character as well further fucking up your sense of direction and hardly ever putting an oppenent in block or hitstun, which means you are always getting countered or instead of parrying on reaction after one directional input attack you instead do the second attack of the string, and of course since hitstun is out the window you just have your move stuffed by your oppenent. VERY FUCKING FRUSTRATING.


I managed to beat the game by just taking things on the chin and trying to just tank through fights with healing items.... then my game kept freezing on the last boss phase 1. Fuck you.


I know I'm bitching but I just need a standardized and fair system which allows me to understand my mistakes and devise a strategy instead of just mashing square (be honest there was no reason not to...) and getting bounced around like a man who can't fucking block in a fighting game...


The dodge move helped but it isn't standardized as there are 3 different animations and distances you dodge depending on the direction. Also you attack while doing so... so on the last boss if i tried to dodge his nanomachine armor would have me in blockstun (blade would deflect off his skin) and open to attacks... This game just needs to balance the fighting game system in it as otherwise it is of high quality. I know it's not a competitive fighting game where balance is everything but it still ruined my experience how little they took from other action games. Dark Souls being a perfect example (blocking, parrying, dodging all based on stamina) I understood why I would lose a fight and why I would win in that game, unlike MG Rising.

For that fact, it made dark souls an awesome experience with an actual learning curve instead of trial and error. This game was awful and nothing but frustrating and I know it's old I just got around to "beating" it now.

Any Thoughts or similar experiences?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

For that fact, it made dark souls an awesome experience with an actual learning curve instead of trial and error. This game was awful and nothing but frustrating and I know it's old I just got around to "beating" it now.

I just played the demo of Rising and it definitely felt like the battle system was too reliant on the parry, but I still think it'll be a fun and entertaining game. So, I'll just assume everything you say is spot-on, but then to list Dark Souls as an example on how to do a combat system is just unbelievable. All you freaking have to do in Dark Souls all game is block and use light attack, that's literally it. The game doesn't force you to get better, there's no learning curve, you just do the same thing all game. You don't need to get better to face the tougher enemies, you just need to level up because you just can't block their attacks or damage them enough to actually fight them.

 

[zerkocelot]

I just played the demo of Rising and it definitely felt like the battle system was too reliant on the parry, but I still think it'll be a fun and entertaining game. So, I'll just assume everything you say is spot-on, but then to list Dark Souls as an example on how to do a combat system is just unbelievable. All you freaking have to do in Dark Souls all game is block and use light attack, that's literally it. The game doesn't force you to get better, there's no learning curve, you just do the same thing all game. You don't need to get better to face the tougher enemies, you just need to level up because you just can't block their attacks or damage them enough to actually fight them.

I agree they had to balance the game as it was an rpg as well... but once you learned the system it became quite easy I admit. But at least there was the learning.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I never really had any trouble with the parry system, it was actually quite fun to pull off a perfect parry.

 

[TehCookie]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

 

[dumbseizure]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

 

[zerkocelot]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

 

[zerkocelot]

Also, most of you have not specifically addressed the problems of no hitstun attacks versus bosses and those heavy guys with hammers... and giving the dodge move an attack rendering it useless versus last boss due to his armor...stupidly thought of mechanics.

Tips on how to parry? All of them consist of telling me the same thing the doc did in the vr mission, theres no work around its input towards enemy and square... too bad all the problems I listed with putting 3 vital things dictated by the left stick still stand...

However some insight was valuable for me I just wish the game was slower and vommited less effects for me to actually see and understand the game. Most games like this are difficult to program when its player vs cpu (instant parries and dodges) but they just made it easy by making it broken (see original post about tracking and hitbox size) please address these points...

 

[Able Seacat]

I disagree, I thought MGR was barrels of fun. I struggled with parrying at first but was I got the knack for it, I was parrying attacks left, right and centre.

Video below shows a guy defeating all bosses without taking damage on the highest difficulty setting.

Spoiler

 

[dumbseizure]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

Uhh.......I never once called you ignorant....

I dunno where you got ignorant from, I said that once you learn how to parry properly and stop spamming skills, the combat system really comes into its own.

I never once said the word ignorant.....

So no, I won't address these issues you seem so desperate to see people defend, because you also seem to lash out quite easily against people for no reason.

 

[endnuen]

Why do you want it to be standardized? The dodge slash moves you a fixed distance to the left/right, forward or back. It's not "random".
The parry can be performed behind your or to either side, independant of your facing, just flick and attack.

Yes parrys can not be made during an attack, so pace your attacks.

All techniques are viewable in the menu, so no problem there really.

And why would you use the dodge move on the last boss when his armor deflects it?
Run around him, and parry his attacks that are not explosions or yellow-glowing.

So all in all, you sir, are wrong.

 

[V TheSystem V]

Metal Gear Rising was a lot of fun to play, and this is coming from someone who had never played an MGS game up until the point that they played Rising, and who gets bored by beat-em-ups (I am one of the rare few who HATED Bayonetta). The parry system was kinda clunky, but once you figured out the timing and how to do them in quick succession, they weren't a problem.

I still don't know how the hell you can parry the hammer dudes' attacks, though.

 

[Roofstone]

I actually really love the parry and dodge. Particularly the parry, it requires skill. Mad skills. It gave me an incredible feeling of accomplishment when I did the monsoon boss managing to parry everything. I have never felt like I've mastered something as much as I did that.

Personally I had no problem with parrying and dodging(when applicable) at any bosses.. So, at the risk of coming of as rude, I'd chalk it up to skill and practise. Keep it up and you will manage.

Yes parrys can not be made during an attack, so pace your attacks.

Sure you can, just not heavy finisher attacks. Except that, parry at will.

 

[EternallyBored]

Going to agree with most everyone else here, the parry system was honestly a little too forgiving if anything, once you figured it out and worked out a rhythm to flick the direction stick towards an enemy whenever you attacked it almost becomes impossible to not parry like 90% of enemy attacks. Once you've got that worked out its pretty much just a matter of dodging the yellow attacks that you can't parry, and making sure you don't get surrounded.

The combat system looks weird on the surface, but the whole thing is simple as hell, most enemy attacks are so choreographed you can start a parry a second or two before the attack even starts to hit you, really makes the easier difficulties kind of a joke. That was my biggest problem with the parry system, there's way too much leeway in starting a parry and the fact you can spam the command during a combo without interrupting it, it pretty much gives you auto-block on anything that can be parried. Once I figured that out most of the bosses rarely if ever actually landed a hit on me, only when I wasn't paying attention and got hit by an unblockable attack

 

[Winnosh]

Wow this is the very first time I've heard someone say this. I and everyone I've ever known play this has said that it was the game that DmC should have been.

I've played DmC one time and yet Rising I have beaten multiple times.

Combat was so fluid, enemies were difficult combat options were extensive and the story was just plain fun. Best hack and slash game since Bayonetta.


Anyone coming to my place looking for a hack and slash game and I reccomend them MGS Rising over DmC and I've never once had someone regret it. I'll say this again DmC isn't a bad game but Rising is far and away superior.

 

[Avalanche91]

The one thing I really disliked about MGS;R was (aside from the ridiculous story) the fact that the dodge movie is pretty much nesecary to beat Sam and the final boss, but is explained even less then the parry.

It was a pretty amusing game though. Nothing stellar but a fun timewaster.

 

[Smertnik]

Oh hey, another complaint thread about Revengeance from someone who's too lazy to learn how parrying works. The parry system works pretty much flawlessly once you figure it out, if anything it's a bit too easy to handle.

 

[Winnosh]

The Parry move is pretty much an expansion of the Royal Guard Style that the team created in DMC 3 and 4. Whereas before it was an optional style of play they made it now your primary defense.

 

[zerkocelot]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

Uhh.......I never once called you ignorant....

I dunno where you got ignorant from, I said that once you learn how to parry properly and stop spamming skills, the combat system really comes into its own.

I never once said the word ignorant.....

So no, I won't address these issues you seem so desperate to see people defend, because you also seem to lash out quite easily against people for no reason.

Refering to the other poster who called me ignorant, that's where I got it from. Why would you use cod and sc2 as a comparison those are completely different genres sf and mgr are at least both fighting/action games (admittedly different anyway)...

 

[Jedamethis]

Made sense to me. Just slash to meet their attack, as far as I'm aware that's what parrying is. Unless it's yellow, then just get out of the way. Takes a while to get the timings down, but most games are like that, don't let it put you off.