Why Metal Gear Rising was Awful.

[zerkocelot]

I disagree, I thought MGR was barrels of fun. I struggled with parrying at first but was I got the knack for it, I was parrying attacks left, right and centre.

Video below shows a guy defeating all bosses without taking damage on the highest difficulty setting.

Spoiler

To all the people who resent me using the word mashing... look at the admiteedly adept player here, even he will be propelled past his target (needing to jump or cancel his string otherwise to make it safe) whilst using a special strategy he found was affective (spamming the divekick). LOOK AT WHAT HAPPEN AT 26:50 the exchange next to a wall causes the camera to go berserk and he was only safe from a stupid attack cause moonsoon jumps away. It's hard to deny the rough gameplay when you show me evidance. As well he isn't parrying most of the time he is blocking (which comes from a slow parry, ugh), just think about these decisions for the layout... block should be its own button and seperate from the parry or at least tacked on to the block instead of vice-versa like in other games.

 

[zerkocelot]

The Parry move is pretty much an expansion of the Royal Guard Style that the team created in DMC 3 and 4. Whereas before it was an optional style of play they made it now your primary defense.

Yea isn't that an awful design decision though? But, good connection!

 

[dumbseizure]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

Uhh.......I never once called you ignorant....

I dunno where you got ignorant from, I said that once you learn how to parry properly and stop spamming skills, the combat system really comes into its own.

I never once said the word ignorant.....

So no, I won't address these issues you seem so desperate to see people defend, because you also seem to lash out quite easily against people for no reason.

Refering to the other poster who called me ignorant, that's where I got it from. Why would you use cod and sc2 as a comparison those are completely different genres sf and mgr are at least both fighting/action games (admittedly different anyway)...

I would appreciate you quoting the right person if your going to address them then.

An CoD and SC2 are different as to what SF and MGR are different.

If you are good at Street Fighter, that doesn't mean your good at MGR, and vice versa.

So no, they aren't the same, they play quite differently.

 

[Jedamethis]

As well he isn't parrying most of the time he is blocking (which comes from a slow parry, ugh), just think about these decisions for the layout... block should be its own button and seperate from the parry or at least tacked on to the block instead of vice-versa like in other games.

Wait wait wait slow down, what? What do you mean by that? What makes a parry different to a block?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I'm not sure what you're complaining about, you sort of went off on a tangent...

I thought the game was totes amazeballs, the boss fights with their respective OSTs was insanely fun


The parry system is fine, I managed to beat the game on Very Hard without too much trouble.

Or is this an instance of 'I couldn't quite get the hang of something, ergo, it's bad'?

 

[zerkocelot]

Can we please stop with reaponses of: I caan do parryz u can't u r dumb.

Read the op I can parry prolly just as well as you it every aspect around it that feels flimsy and poorly planned.

 

[Zetatrain]

I really enjoyed the game and if there was one problem I had with the parry system it was the fact that the game's tutorial was unclear about how it worked so it took a few hours of trial and error to get it down.

Now by hit stun do you mean simply knocking them off balance and interrupting their attacks for a brief moment or do you mean the stun effect that takes place after successfully performing a counterattack (this is represented by that "dizzy" symbol that a appears over the person's head)?

 

[zerkocelot]

As well he isn't parrying most of the time he is blocking (which comes from a slow parry, ugh), just think about these decisions for the layout... block should be its own button and seperate from the parry or at least tacked on to the block instead of vice-versa like in other games.

Wait wait wait slow down, what? What do you mean by that? What makes a parry different to a block?

a lot.

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

Uhh.......I never once called you ignorant....

I dunno where you got ignorant from, I said that once you learn how to parry properly and stop spamming skills, the combat system really comes into its own.

I never once said the word ignorant.....

So no, I won't address these issues you seem so desperate to see people defend, because you also seem to lash out quite easily against people for no reason.

Refering to the other poster who called me ignorant, that's where I got it from. Why would you use cod and sc2 as a comparison those are completely different genres sf and mgr are at least both fighting/action games (admittedly different anyway)...

I would appreciate you quoting the right person if your going to address them then.

An CoD and SC2 are different as to what SF and MGR are different.

If you are good at Street Fighter, that doesn't mean your good at MGR, and vice versa.

So no, they aren't the same, they play quite differently.

no doubt they play differently just more similar than the analogy you made.. also I assumed you would think my post was a general response

 

[Jedamethis]

As well he isn't parrying most of the time he is blocking (which comes from a slow parry, ugh), just think about these decisions for the layout... block should be its own button and seperate from the parry or at least tacked on to the block instead of vice-versa like in other games.

Wait wait wait slow down, what? What do you mean by that? What makes a parry different to a block?

a lot.

Okay. So a block blocks an attack, and a parry...?
Also blocks an attack because that's what a parry is? Or are you thinking of a counter-attack.

 

[zerkocelot]

I really enjoyed the game and if there was one problem I had with the parry system it was the fact that the game's tutorial was unclear about how it worked so it took a few hours of trial and error to get it down.

Now by hit stun do you mean simply knocking them off balance and interrupting their attacks for a brief moment or do you mean the stun effect that takes place after successfully performing a counterattack (this is represented by that "dizzy" symbol that a appears over the person's head)?

at the risk of sounding esoteric I can't explain every piece of terminology inherint in a fighting game because that would take a long time this post is meant for the discussion of hardcore mechanics and people who understand them. Blocking monsoons psychp crusher attack leaves you in blockstun and he goes right through you 3 times...no fun

 

[zerkocelot]

As well he isn't parrying most of the time he is blocking (which comes from a slow parry, ugh), just think about these decisions for the layout... block should be its own button and seperate from the parry or at least tacked on to the block instead of vice-versa like in other games.

Wait wait wait slow down, what? What do you mean by that? What makes a parry different to a block?

a lot.

Okay. So a block blocks an attack, and a parry...?
Also blocks an attack because that's what a parry is? Or are you thinking of a counter-attack.

since you seem earnest in your curiosity a parry is the reflection of an attack and a block is the absorption of an attack they can have very different properties depending on the game you're playing the Parry in Metal Gear Rising would lead to the counter attack zandatsu

 

[TrevHead]

I really liked how MGR just had parry rather than the standard dodge / block mapped to RT that's the norm in the genre. While the devs could have plumbed for a safe old RT to parry like Dark Souls does but it's still the same button.

While it does take a bit of time to master but that's half the fun right?

 

[zerkocelot]

Why do you want it to be standardized? The dodge slash moves you a fixed distance to the left/right, forward or back. It's not "random".
The parry can be performed behind your or to either side, independant of your facing, just flick and attack.

Yes parrys can not be made during an attack, so pace your attacks.

All techniques are viewable in the menu, so no problem there really.

And why would you use the dodge move on the last boss when his armor deflects it?
Run around him, and parry his attacks that are not explosions or yellow-glowing.

So all in all, you sir, are wrong.

You have not addressed all the points about the scatterbrained fighting system. I realise thre is a movelist but the ssquare x 10 string works the sameas any others besides the lauch moves and useless knockdown moves. I can parry its just clunky and far more risky than any other defensive option. why would I dodge against the last boss? silly me how dumb a thought... I stopped after I learned the crucial bit of info mr. continuity. notice the dodges are all difeeent animations I doubt they are similar simply due to the other random aspects of the game.

 

[llew]

I dont get why people have trouble with learning to parry, granted during the demo it was horrendous but they made it fairly simple in the actual game, you just move in the direction the attack is coming form and just hit the light attack button whenever an attack comes. I thought it was a great game

 

[zerkocelot]

I really liked how MGR just had parry rather than the standard dodge / block mapped to RT that's the norm in the genre. While the devs could have plumbed for a safe old RT to parry like Dark Souls does but it's still the same button.

While it does take a bit of time to master but that's half the fun right?

refer to the original post thatlearning did not happen to me at any pleasurable rate. even if it did it would be an investment into a flimsy and clunky / random mechanic.I'm sure the guy in the video have to retry over 100 times to complete it .what a waste..he's good tho

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Why do you want it to be standardized? The dodge slash moves you a fixed distance to the left/right, forward or back. It's not "random".
The parry can be performed behind your or to either side, independant of your facing, just flick and attack.

Yes parrys can not be made during an attack, so pace your attacks.

All techniques are viewable in the menu, so no problem there really.

And why would you use the dodge move on the last boss when his armor deflects it?
Run around him, and parry his attacks that are not explosions or yellow-glowing.

So all in all, you sir, are wrong.

You have not addressed all the points about the scatterbrained fighting system. I realise thre is a movelist but the ssquare x 10 string works the sameas any others besides the lauch moves and useless knockdown moves. I can parry its just clunky and far more risky than any other defensive option. why would I dodge against the last boss? silly me how dumb a thought... I stopped after I learned the crucial bit of info mr. continuity. notice the dodges are all difeeent animations I doubt they are similar simply due to the other random aspects of the game.

Soooo, what are you angry for again?

Because the parries use different animations? Because you can't parry everything? Because you don't know how to use the dodge mechanic?

I'm really confused, and I'm not entirely sure the lack of basic grammar helps.

 

[Jedamethis]

As well he isn't parrying most of the time he is blocking (which comes from a slow parry, ugh), just think about these decisions for the layout... block should be its own button and seperate from the parry or at least tacked on to the block instead of vice-versa like in other games.

Wait wait wait slow down, what? What do you mean by that? What makes a parry different to a block?

a lot.

Okay. So a block blocks an attack, and a parry...?
Also blocks an attack because that's what a parry is? Or are you thinking of a counter-attack.

since you seem earnest in your curiosity a parry is the reflection of an attack and a block is the absorption of an attack they can have very different properties depending on the game you're playing the Parry in Metal Gear Rising would lead to the counter attack zandatsu

Ahh, right, I see now. You can't zandatsu straight away, because that would make the game piss-easy, wouldn't it? So of course you can't parry into zandatsu right away either, and it would ruin the point of the boss fight if you could kill them the same as any normal enemy. With weaker enemies, you can slash them apart with gay abandon, because they're weak, and so the parry counter works. Stronger enemies like the hammer guys need to be worn down before they can be cut open, so the parry counter doesn't work, and you instead parry/block the attack.
Which makes sense, right? Weaker, unarmoured enemies attack, you parry their weapon aside with your superior strength, and cut them open. Stronger, armoured enemies attack, it's a little hard to deflect an oncoming hammer blow with a blade, so you have to block it. Or you manage to deflect it, but you can't deflect it enough to leave them open to a counter-attack. Besides, they're armoured so you can't cut them open yet anyway.

I don't see that it's a flaw in the game, just like, say, not being able to sprint great distances isn't a flaw in real life. It'd make some things a lot easier, definitely, but there's a reason you can't and that reason makes sense.

 

[Gearhead mk2]

I don't play many hack-and-slashers, and I hadn't played a Metal Gear game before that point, but personally I freaking loved Revengeance. Tight combat, fun action, enjoyable story, amazing music, and the best damn bosses I've ever seen. Your complaints with it honestly do just seem to be "I don't like how the parry works" and "it doesn't play like a 2D fighter". Just go play Viewtiful Joe if that's the case.

 

[Zetatrain]

I really enjoyed the game and if there was one problem I had with the parry system it was the fact that the game's tutorial was unclear about how it worked so it took a few hours of trial and error to get it down.

Now by hit stun do you mean simply knocking them off balance and interrupting their attacks for a brief moment or do you mean the stun effect that takes place after successfully performing a counterattack (this is represented by that "dizzy" symbol that a appears over the person's head)?

at the risk of sounding esoteric I can't explain every piece of terminology inherint in a fighting game because that would take a long time this post is meant for the discussion of hardcore mechanics and people who understand them. Blocking monsoons psychp crusher attack leaves you in blockstun and he goes right through you 3 times...no fun

Doesn't sound like a difficult question to answer. I even gave you a of couple examples; do either of them fit the description of what a hit stun is in MGR? Also can you be a little bit more descriptive of the Psycho Crusher attack? I can't quite remember which attack that was.

Since no one else seems to be discussing the issue of hit stuns with regard to bosses and certain enemies with you I'd like to think that answering my questions so that I can continue this discussion would be worth your time.

Edit: Ok upon posting this it seems others are discussing the issue of hit stuns against bosses. If you still don't think answering my question is worth your time then fair enough.