Why nerds are unpopular (this is lengthy)

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TheRightToArmBears

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I don't think it was quite so rigid in the English school I went to. For starters, I have (and obviously have always had) quite a strong Irish accent, which bizzarely (now we've stopped bombing you) is now cool/cute/sexy amongst English teens. I'm relatively fit, very musical and (apparenltly, only from what I was told back in the day) 'ruggedly handsome' (I suspect they were blind). On the oher hand, I used to play games and Warhammer, as well as being clever. I was a closet nerd (still am). For about 2 weeks I was actually the most poular guy in school because I was going out with the most popular girl (And after we split up (if you call it that. It was one of those silly teen relationships) I was the least popular guy for a bit).

So I kinda drifted about, until I got to about 15/16 where everything just went into cliques that were almost completely seperate. And then we all got over that shit and then there was no shit like that (for about 2 months, and then everyone went to university anyway, right after we sorted everything out).

Think less medieval feudal system, more celtic clans. Now there's a nerdy analogy.
 

rampantcreature

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I always found it a little weird that as a person who went through the American public school system, I never saw the caste system TV led me to believe was in every school everywhere.

But then again, I'm from a big city, not suburbia. Schools here are tightly packed, hundreds of schools in a small area, and even among the public ones you can and will have to CHOOSE which one to go to. And very few schools here have any official sports teams until high school, and very few high schools have football teams. With no football, there are no burly TV-style jocks, and no real cheerleaders either. To add to that, I went to a high school that was entirely inherently nerdy (a specialized public school...a magnet 'science school'), so there was not much savagery among us. We still had our tribes, but movement among them was fluid, and mostly based on what time you had lunch.

I would actually have to say that my elementary school was much more savage, and my junior high a slightly less intense continuation of that. But I think this was the difference between being in zoned schools and choosing which school you wanted to go to; once we had a choice, kids who had chosen similarly were already in the same tribes, and less savagery resulted.
 

Chal

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(=Nemesis=) said:
Stop complaining about the length, this is supposed to be a "magazine".

Pretty much everything here was spot-on and if there's anything negative I have to say it's that it reminded me of when I was 14 and thoroughly wretched.

Also, my first post. :)
Welcome to the Escapist. Someone else will share the in-jokes, I'm fairly new meself.

I remember reading this article a while back, and I actually thought his opinions on how schools function were more interesting than his ideas of how popularity works. I was raised in a suburban setting myself, and he is spot on with how plastic and fraudulent it really is. It's creepy and depressing to consider that so many of us have been raised like that.
 

Zombus

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I really enjoyed reading this. Like, a lot. Seriously. I'm kinda speechless (or typeless) right now. Cool.
 

Chronarch

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Wow, that was a good article. The things he said could easily be compared to my high school life and a few things were cleared up as well. *claps*
 

Irony's Acolyte

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I'm not particularly proud to say that I didn't read it all. But I'll put up my theory on why nerds (or geeks, or dorks, or what have you) aren't popular: We are different. Simple as that. No matter how much Americans take pride in their "individuality" you are only allowed to be individual to a certain degree, any more and you are weird.

Now to get around to reading the whole thing. If I don't come back in an hour tell my wife I love her.

*Pant, pant* Good god that was long. But damn was it good. I think I might copy it and hold on to it, if you don't mind, it was just that good. It will take more than one read-through to get all your points. I like some of your comparisons as well. School as a prison, suburbia as a artificial nursery, school society as a court of old. They were very apt and I see a lot of truth in them. I'm currently out of high school but I might have to keep my eyes open for similar societies forming in college (though I imagine college breeds its own, unique ones).

I will add some of my own oberservations as well on high school society as well. Its very important to remember that the society and culture that is present in middle and high school are always there. They aren't remade every time new people move in. They are formed by eariler classes who frequent them for a bit then move out as more students take their place. This creates a constant culture taht is slowlied changed by each new group of kids, but for the most part stays the same. And so the new kids, rather than activily trying to change the culture that they entering instead change themselves to fit into the culture. Those that don't are usually the nerds and geeks. They are looked down upon by those who comformed to the societal rules of high school. Having been one of the "outcasts" (my school's society wasn't particularly cruel when it came to conforming) I noticed that although some of the geeks and nerds were actively stigmatize (not harshly, once again thanks to my relatively gentle school), many simply didn't bother with conforming. They made their own little groups and created their own culture. So although some of the "dregs" of the high school culture are no doubt forcably put in the "lower castes", some simply just adhere to the culture and so end up at the "bottom" of their own free will.
 

Plurralbles

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Cheveyo said:
Plurralbles said:
intelligence correlating to unpopularity is bullshit you do realize this... You ought to.

It's really pretty damn easy to find smart, sexy, and cool all in one package.

You stopped reading four sentences in, didn't you?
then don't start your argument with an invalid point.
 

TheLaofKazi

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Overall, I have to say I highly agree with this essay. Although I didn't agree with everything, there was a lot of little assumptions and opinions in there that I felt all nit-picky about, but the big picture was more important then that, and that's what I agreed with, mainly when he summed much of what he said up near the end, such as this:

"It's important for nerds to realize, too, that school is not life. School is a strange, artificial thing, half sterile and half feral. It's all-encompassing, like life, but it isn't the real thing. It's only temporary, and if you look, you can see beyond it even while you're still in it."

What I didn't necessarily agree with is how he seemed to praise the "real world" outside of school as some kind of place where the most intelligent truly succeed, and the way he looked at adults as so mature. I don't think neither are all that true. Popularity still matters just as much as it does in school, although it is different. In order to find a decent job you generally have to fit in socially, you have to be respected (but by society's skewed standards), and thinking for yourself and speaking out will not lead you to a comfy, warm spot safely nestled in society. In many cases, it's going to drive you further away from it. It seems that he sort of gave two meanings for nerd, one of them that intelligent kid that highly respects his/her teachers, studies hard and gets good grades. Basically, the ideal person in society's eyes, someone that works hard and takes instructions, and doesn't go against the norm much. The other definition he seemed to give for nerd was someone that was more rebellious, independent and critical of society. Sure, both are true to an extent, and there isn't one specific definition of nerd, it can mean many different things to different people. But my problem is he used the word a lot, but associated it with conflicting things.

And I didn't particularly agree here:

"What happened? We're up against a hard one here. The cause of this problem is the same as the cause of so many present ills: specialization. As jobs become more specialized, we have to train longer for them. Kids in pre-industrial times started working at about 14 at the latest; kids on farms, where most people lived, began far earlier. Now kids who go to college don't start working full-time till 21 or 22. With some degrees, like MDs and PhDs, you may not finish your training till 30."

Sure, a good number of jobs require more specialization now, but I don't think that's really the problem, and the degrees, demands and longer education are merely bi-products, I think the problem is in those so called bi-products themselves. I think much of what is thought to require school to be learned can be learned without formal education, or at least certainly not in the very limited and procedural method that school teaches it. People can learn on their own, especially when there is easy access to knowledge, and there is, especially today. The massive amount of knowledge and information on the internet, in books and many other sources provides an excellent foundation for anybody with a passion and self-motivation to learn. I mean, Albert Einstein dropped out of school. He didn't need years and years of "specialized education," to develop his foundation-shaking theories, he had a limitless intellectual curiosity, he took it upon himself to read, write and learn. That's something school, I think, kills, and discourages.

I'm sure the author would somewhat agree with me here, but it seemed like he contradicted himself. He says how boring, pointless and unproductive school is, and then he says how it's needed to train people for these supposedly ridiculously specialized careers. Perhaps he didn't mean college and was just talking about public school, but if so can you really tell me that college is too much different? I hardly think that a college is a place that is conductive to an organic, open learning process that nurtures people's intellectual curiosity and encourages exploration and creative new ideas. No, it's based on a more rigid, in-depth and unforgiving version of the public school experience that you get to pay inflated prices for.

Like he was saying with the way adults view a lot of teenage problems are innate, I think a lot of these supposed "issues" with living in a world with demands for technology and innovation aren't innate either, they are created out of our society's misconceptions and ignorance regarding it's own needs. Everything is the same as before, knowledge and past innovations build on each other, and are handed down to the next generation to build upon. Just because we are gaining the capabilities to create more complex, progressive things doesn't mean people have to spend more and more years in an expensive college to understand and function in it.

I could go on much longer, but I'm tired of writing. :D
 

Motti

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Brilliant essay, and so true. Well done.

 

The Seldom Seen Kid

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I don't get this stereotype. And I don't think I ever will. While it's true I've never been out partying, drinking, and smoking, I just have no interest in doing so.
I'm smart, I play video-games, but I easily know and socialize with everyone in my grade.

Now that I think about it, it's probably just a good school, since nobody is really an "outcast" in my grade.

American schools are weird.


EDIT: I'm in a Canadian school. I don't think there should be that much of a difference anyway.
 

Plurralbles

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Cheveyo said:
Plurralbles said:
Cheveyo said:
Plurralbles said:
intelligence correlating to unpopularity is bullshit you do realize this... You ought to.

It's really pretty damn easy to find smart, sexy, and cool all in one package.

You stopped reading four sentences in, didn't you?
then don't start your argument with an invalid point.

If you're not going to bother reading something, don't make a post about it.
If you read it, and still want to ignore the point of it, that's your right.

Read it kid, it'll learn you something.
*been in college for a year and a quarter*

Honestly, I read something different. My head hurts now.
 

Shivari

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I'm pretty sure popularity has everything to do with social skills and nothing to do with nerdiness.
 

Lesd3vil

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I strongly agree with many of the points raised in this essay; indeed, pointing out that the most popular kids are generally not the biggest bullies struck a particularly resonant chord with me since I recall from my days as a 'nerd' that I actually had many friends among the'popular' crowd, and the only real difference between us was that they were never the ones being bullied.

I'd like to add, however, that in many cases I believe that your particular psychological makeup probably contributes more to this than the difference between 'popular' and 'unpopular'. Personally, I came to realise that a large part of the reason I was being bullied is because I LET the bullying happen without doing anything to stop it. At best, I would be afraid of reprisals should I take action against it, and at worst, a small part of me came to expect it, perhaps even to think that it was happening because I deserved it.

Yes, high school is a brutal and feral place, a dog-eat-dog style of society, and in such places the vulnerable are always singled out first. At first I have to admit, the reason for the bullying was because I had the unconscious arrogance of a child who effortlessly excelled at everything in primary school without having to try, and I think in the 'popular' crowd, who as a rule in my school were also grade-A students, may have learned more humility at some point earlier in life, and worked harder. After that, however, I think it was as simple as 'because they could'.

I disagree strongly with the 'nerds get ahead' point made, however. A lot of the people similar to me - the 'naturally intelligent' crowd, if you will - never really learned the value of hard work. In the english curriculum, there is a massive jump in difficulty between GCSE and A-level work, and if you don't know how to buckle down you suffer for it. Because I'd never had to work particularly hard in previous years, in my first few A-level tests I instantly failed, dropped out of sixth form and essentially disappeared.

The huge problem with the school system as it is, is that the facade of society that it imposes upon young people is now overspilling into the 'real world', because young adults leaving school know no other way to live. I've seen many cases of bullying in all the places I've worked, and the facts are simple. The majority will always harass the minority, since the minority makes them feel uncomfortable. People who make themselves vulnerable to bullying will always be the subjects of bullying. The sad thing is, I know a young man in my workplace who is bullied almost constantly by everyone around him, and his self-esteem is so low that even though he knows (in abstract) that it's possible for a person to better themselves, mentally, physically, and socially, he honestly thinks that it would be impossible for him to do it himself.

I wouldn't presume to espouse the ideal of anarchy that some people I know profess to hold, especially since they don't really know the meaning of the word; but the system of society in todays world is twisted. I'm not saying it's wrong, and I'm not saying it's impossible to get along inside of it, but it has been warped by the sheer force of the insanity that is such a fact of life in the world that no-one even realises it's there. The few people who do notice are called freaks at best, and insane at worst. I say, no, the ones who are insane are definately the majority.
 

Darkauthor81

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Cheveyo said:
Plurralbles said:
Cheveyo said:
Plurralbles said:
intelligence correlating to unpopularity is bullshit you do realize this... You ought to.

It's really pretty damn easy to find smart, sexy, and cool all in one package.

You stopped reading four sentences in, didn't you?
then don't start your argument with an invalid point.

If you're not going to bother reading something, don't make a post about it.
If you read it, and still want to ignore the point of it, that's your right.

Read it kid, it'll learn you something.
Ignore him dude. He's just a troll. Don't let him goad you into getting into it with him.

Actually, I had posted this and left it never intending to come back and read the responses. I fully expected it to be pounced on by trolls going "the is long and words r hard yur stoopid" I merely posted it so that the people with the intelligence and interest could read an enlightening article about the high school caste system.

But curiosity, and boredom, got the better of me and I came back to see how bad the trolling was. To my shock, there was barely any trolling! In fact, there was applause and even intelligent thought out debate for and against pieces of the article. I am... speechless.

Intelligent life on the internet. Who knew?

I found a similar article about the psychology of trolls. I think I'll post it some time. :D
 

Berethond

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I disagree with a few of the assumptions, but school is most definitely like a prison.