"Why not just watch porn?"

[verdant monkai]

Because some great animes have been stunted by the sheer stupid amount of fan service. My favored example:

High School of the Dead

Spoiler: Matrix Boobs

I love the anime too and that scene always gets me, I think its supposed to be comedic thought right? Its supposed to be ludicrous and dumb that the boobs only get skimmed rather than shot through.

To be honest you sort of know what your getting yourself into if its an anime called high school of the dead. The highschool part means a lot of very Japanese and pervy stuff will happen. I dont think fanservice ruins HOTD I'd say HOTD is a piece of fanservice.

Fanservice and all that really doesn't bother me in fact sometimes I like it, other times I find it funny. Then again its obviously not for everyone, and I am after all the amorphous sack of meat and tentacles that its supposed to appeal to.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

I can tell you why people say that.

They think sexuality is a bad or unacceptable or indecent thing that should never be expressed in entertainment and thus, should only be displayed in its most hamfisted and inelegant form, solely for the utility of allowing people to easily get themselves off every once in a while.

In short, they have no imagination, at least when it comes to erotica. I've found that it's unfortunately not worth trying to argue with people who say that.

It's a good thing you just decided you know what people who don't think the exact same thing as you think, packaged with a personal attack to boot. Posts like this are why the Internet is well known as humanity's last bastion for reasoned and civil discussion.

Not really. You should probably re-read what I said because there was nothing about "people who don't think the exact same as I do" in there. Saying that shows that I enjoy should not exist and that I should just go watch porn instead is not worth arguing. Is there much other reason for suggesting something like that when you could easily just not watch? It's called tolerance and letting people enjoy what's fun for them. Also, there was no personal attack, but nice try there.

Personally, I think sexuality is great. I love to see it expressed. I have no time for fan-service and out-of-context T&A because I'm a savvy consumer with a brain, and I don't appreciate being exclusively marketed to via my penis.

When I see out-of-context fan-service, what I hear in my head is the producers of the show saying, "You! Yeah you! Give us your money! Give it to us now! Buy more of our product! Buy our posters, figurines, manga, and of course more episodes of our show! Because we showed you some badly animated, anatomically-incorrect tits! What, you say you want an interesting story? You want relatable characters! Fuck that! You're a penis with a wallet attached! You'll buy the lowest schlock we have on offer because we put a pair of melons on camera. You want an exciting game with fun mechanics and a compelling challenge curve? No, we're giving you a rehash of a side-scrolling beat-em-up from the late 80's that wasn't even that good to begin with, and you'll buy it because we stuck ginormous bazongas in it for no good reason. Now dance, monkey, dance!"

This entire thing is because you're making a huge assumption, just like some of the people who comment on my art. I draw ecchi all the time, but people assume I'm doing it just to get pageviews, for instance. The truth is, I'm doing it despite less pageviews because it's fun for me and the artists who inspired me were ecchi artists.

The thing is, sometimes it really is just a case of the artists' original intent was to include the ecchi, because it's fun for them to include in their works. Baseless assumptions that assume they only include ecchi for the money are just that. Baseless. It's conjecture that makes you feel exploited as a consumer.

People should really stop thinking of companies as "HAR HAR OUT TA GETCHER MONEEEEY!" all the time. It's not as much of a case of us vs. them as people seem to think.

 

[The Lugz]

Women in bikinis is not porn (imagine the economies that would destroyed if it was!). Women with nice features isn't porn. Women being seductive/playful isn't porn either. Maybe that is one of the reasons people watch it. To see something they DO like without having to see something they DON'T like?

Umm, according to Webster's pornography is "Writings, pictures ect..intended primarily to arouse sexual desire."
So yeah, women in bikinis, women with nice features, women being playfully seductive can actually all be considered porn, though from the definition it would seem that the intent of the creator is actually the primary consideration.
I'm with you about there being people who just don't like what most people consider porn now...don't want to watch other people going at it...but I love to watch bellydancers, which according to the definition....

it's interesting actually how 'porn' developed the first recorded porn that i've herd of were paintings and carvings ( small handsized statues ) that you could touch and look at almost like a 'fetish' artefact ( which could be where the concept of fetish came from, the obsession with a sex toy or whatever object. )

basically my definition of porn is watching something that arouses you, whatever that may be. because as we all know ( or should by now ) everyone is different and with such things, the proper definition is in the eye of the beholder.
the problem is, how can you rate or control something that has no strict definition? it's basically the government, churches and other establishments that invented the labels and judge you by what you do..
so.. extremely edgy political subject and totally controversial hmm.. maby i should quit while im ahead here.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

If a piece of fiction is to be taken seriously it shouldn't have sexual content unless it is relevant to the plot, themes or characters in some way. If it's just fan-service without context it has no substance and thus, no point. The same applies to violence, or really anything that happens just for the sake of happening.

There are exceptions of course. Some genres are known for their gratuitous amounts of sex/violence/etc., but that doesn't mean they are immune to criticism.

I don't mind that some people like seeing tons of fan service in anime, but I personally don't want to deal with it if I can avoid it. There are plenty of animes out there that handle sexuality in a mature and relevant way... they're just rare it seems >.>

A porn thread and your name is fappy, oh crap, must resist joke!

I'd say there are very few shows where the sexual content isn't at least relevant to the characters. High School of the Dead is an example of that. While a lot of shows might not handle sexuality in a mature way, and that applies to all tv shows, not just anime.

To the OP: I can understand when it comes to the more blatant fanservice, like the obligatory beach episode or something, but a character who teases or generally acts seductive isn't a bad thing or even remotely related to porn in all likelihood.

 

[sageoftruth]

Some videogames are pretty pornograhic in an exploitative kind of way, though that doesn't necessarily make them porn.

Case in point: Just about every game by Team Ninja (except DOA Extreme Volleyball)

 

[sageoftruth]

Personally, I think the way in which erotica is introduced is really important. Just like in-game transactions, having random erotica dumped on you in a manner that doesn't make sense (in the context of the story) can kick you out of your engagement with the story just as quickly as an online transaction can break your gaming immersion.

After recently getting into western comics, I read Empowered. The thing I loved about that comic was that it's use of fanservice was so ingrained in the story that it could not be removed without ruining the story itself. As a result, when I ran into fanservice, I didn't suddenly feel like I was being pandered to.

 

[prpshrt]

I used to watch the anime fairy tail ever since it was released and I didn't seem to have a problem just casually watching it on my laptop when I had the time. Now I have to sit in a locked room when I read the manga and watch the newer episodes just in case people don't look at my screen during an unfortunate page or scene and end up thinking I'm addicted to hentai. I still really like the story but the amount of "fan service" is just stupid.

 

[Wickatricka]

But nope. According to the Internet, its just that these people apparently know enough to work Youtube or a PS3 but can't figure out how to work Google.

You do realize that to properly utilize Google, and any other search engine for that matter, that you have to use proper spelling, don't you? That immediately disqualifies at least half (rough, generous estimate) of the internet users.

No you don't lol it gives you suggestions or spell checks your search for you. Therefore pretty much any illiterate person can use the internet as long as they get close to the word they were trying to write.

 

[CplDustov]

But nope. According to the Internet, its just that these people apparently know enough to work Youtube or a PS3 but can't figure out how to work Google.

You do realize that to properly utilize Google, and any other search engine for that matter, that you have to use proper spelling, don't you? That immediately disqualifies at least half (rough, generous estimate) of the internet users.

I admit ignorance of current search engine practices. However, I remember being explained that it trawls the net for pages with strings of characters that match those the user inputs. (and now variations in past or plurals or those e.g. cat will also search cats) As in real, existing material written in part by that 50% and not the theoretical spellings.

If this is the case then proper spelling either won't matter as it searches what's really on the internet (half of what's on the internet will be badly spelled anyway thus cancelling itself out because both the original text and search parameters are equally incorrect)

OR.... like you say it ends up being even more useless than predicted as 50% of everyone tries to guess in what particular way the word is badly written by the rest of the 50%. katz? kats? cats? catz? C475?

EDIT:

No you don't lol it gives you suggestions or spell checks your search for you. Therefore pretty much any illiterate person can use the internet as long as they get close to the word they were trying to write.

Ok. True. You got me there. My distopian vision of people unable to communicate has come undone.

 

[wulf3n]

It's their place to include it? Yes... they make it. And it's my place to critique their decisions. As someone who critiques professional and peer work alike, someone whose in an academic setting to pick apart works to see what enables the piece and what detracts from it on a daily basis, I don't think that my opinion is inane.

It's not criticism that's the issue here, it's the thinly veiled attempt at censorship in the form of "Just watch porn".

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Why is "it's pretty" not enough? We're not talking about something exploring the human condition etc, we're talking about a something purely designed for entertainment.

In which case any addition that increases the enjoyment for the target audience needs no other justification.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

It's their place to include it? Yes... they make it. And it's my place to critique their decisions. As someone who critiques professional and peer work alike, someone whose in an academic setting to pick apart works to see what enables the piece and what detracts from it on a daily basis, I don't think that my opinion is inane.

It's not criticism that's the issue here, it's the thinly veiled attempt at censorship in the form of "Just watch porn".

Excuse me for singling you out. I was going to make a massive quote block and make snarky comments to a half-dozen different people, but then I didn't. Your post is a good enough jumping off point for the two points I wanted to make.

It's not an attempt at censorship with any kind of veiling. At least I don't think so. I mean, I'm fairly sure we did that book-burning just so we could toast some marshmallows...

Anyway, here's how I see it. Stories, in any medium, are basically emotion machines. The narrative makes me have various kinds of feels, and the quality, quantity, and nature of these feels determines my overall viewing experience. When a given scene gives me mixed emotional messages, my enjoyment goes down.

Somebody in the comments of one of Red Letter Media's Star Trek reviews summed up the concept of tone in a really simple and brilliant way, so brilliant I saved it for times like these. Here it is:

"Yeah its weird, like when Im having a bowl of chicken soup, it really upsets me when it smells like gasoline and oil, and feels like icy cold air blasting me in the face and I'm barely able to stay on my seat, you figure since I love those things about snowmobiling that I should love them when Im eating soup."

Which, by the way, is why even though I don't like High School of the Dead, I don't have a problem with it. It has a consistent tone. That tone just happens to be "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LOLOLOLOLOL BANG BANG PEW PEW KABOOOM VROOOOOOOOOOM WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Why is "it's pretty" not enough? We're not talking about something exploring the human condition etc, we're talking about a something purely designed for entertainment.

In which case any addition that increases the enjoyment for the target audience needs no other justification.

Actually, we are talking about exploring the human condition etc., my bar is just lower than most people's. Naruto is about loyalty and revenge. Bleach functions extraordinarily well as a critique of obsolete Japanese culture. Death Note and Gurren Lagann are so obvious as to not need explaining. Code Geass's theme is...well, pretty much everything. Bakemonogatari is about language, anime culture, and relationships. Star Driver is about sex and philosophy.

What I'm saying is, when I say, "Why can't you be more like Bleach?"

And you say, "Not everybody can be that sophisticated."

Then it might, if you'll pardon me paraphrasing Hell Girl, be time to give a death a try.

 

[wulf3n]

It's not an attempt at censorship with any kind of veiling. At least I don't think so. I mean, I'm fairly sure we did that book-burning just so we could toast some marshmallows...

It's saying something shouldn't exist, or should only exist in certain forms, how is that not verbalizing the want for censorship?

What I'm saying is, when I say, "Why can't you be more like Bleach?"

And you say, "Not everybody can be that sophisticated."

I think it's closer to "Not everything has to be Bleach".

"Yeah its weird, like when Im having a bowl of chicken soup, it really upsets me when it smells like gasoline and oil, and feels like icy cold air blasting me in the face and I'm barely able to stay on my seat, you figure since I love those things about snowmobiling that I should love them when Im eating soup."

What if I like my chicken soup smelling like gasoline and oil? Then people come along and say
"Chicken soup shouldn't smell like Gasoline, If you want the smell of gasoline go snowmobiling"

 

[IamLEAM1983]

The thing is, Anime has several subgenres that cater to sexual urges in ways that the Western market doesn't appear to extensively require. The culture of repression is stronger there than here, so stronger and perhaps weirder paraphilias surface as a result. These specific shows might not be outright deviant, but the OP's argument doesn't really hold water. If High School of the Dead contains this much fan service, it'e because there's a "schoolgirl" fetish culture in Japan and ergo, there's a demographic WITHIN the demographic for the show itself that inevitably will be watching the show for its T&A content. It's unavoidable.

So, why not just watch porn? I'd retort to the hypothetical asker of said question that this is very much porn for a segment of the population.

Just look at the Furry culture, for instance. Gadget, Fat Cat, Monterey Jack et al. might be some of the least sexualized characters out there, but that doesn't change the fact that there is such a thing as Gadget + Fat Cat Rule 34... Add to that cross-pollination between paraphilias and you get a cornucopia of potential casual fetishes.

An orgy scene involving the antagonists from some kids' show that's fallen into obscurity? It's there.

Morbidly Obese Discord getting both aroused and weighed down by ingesting a gargantuan amount of chocolate milk and cookies? I'm sure that's out there somewhere.

So, OP - you might be able to watch a given show for its content and not find your bits to be tweaked by it, but someone else out there doesn't have that luxury. With that in mind, don't be too shocked when someone brings up erotic angles to things you'd have assumed to be tame.

 

[Bocaj2000]

It's their place to include it? Yes... they make it. And it's my place to critique their decisions. As someone who critiques professional and peer work alike, someone whose in an academic setting to pick apart works to see what enables the piece and what detracts from it on a daily basis, I don't think that my opinion is inane.

It's not criticism that's the issue here, it's the thinly veiled attempt at censorship in the form of "Just watch porn".

Censorship? I never said that. You're getting defensive and putting words in my mouth. I'm saying expect criticism.

What experience? If you add something just because "it's pretty" and no other reason, then you don't know what you're doing as an artist. If you don't want me to dismiss you, then expand on "Because it's nice to look at."

Why is "it's pretty" not enough? We're not talking about something exploring the human condition etc, we're talking about a something purely designed for entertainment.

In which case any addition that increases the enjoyment for the target audience needs no other justification.

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion. You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

If you don't take your medium seriously, like I do, then you have no part in a serious discussion. You minimize the animation you like and you minimize entertainment industry as a whole. To be honest, I find your dismissal of the value of the entertainment industry to be a downright offensive.

To imply that everyone who doesn't think like you when creating their vision is not taking their medium seriously is more insulting.

The entertainment industry has room for all kinds of works, not only the ones that you find acceptable.