Why not topless ?

[Steve Dark]

There are really two parts to this for me, one half of me would LOVE it if attractive women walked around topless on hot days, but then the other half gets me angry at even the thought of any other guys eyeing up my girlfriend if she were to do the same. So overall I think I prefer things the way they are now to be honest, it saves me the effort of beating the crap out of every guy with wayward eyes on a hot day.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Islamic...what now?

I don't think anyone should be walking around topless, male or female regardless - especially at this time of year, poor things would catch a dreadful cold.

Perhaps the reason is that every 13 year old and their dog would follow said topless woman home?

Frankly, you don't need to intellectualise this either; don't pretend this has anything to do with innate moral codes, or the Islamic faith, you just want to know why women don't walk around with their tits out.

The answer to which, is not that surprising.

...No, really, why are you even asking this question.

Let me ask this of you, OP; how often do you walk around in public with your John Thomas out?

What's that, you don't? At all? Must be the impression Islam has had on us, clearly.

If Islam is the one and only thing that prevents horny old men from getting their sausage out inviting people to look at in the street then Praise Allah!

 

[fluffylandmine]

To me I feel that the church is in control, but the people don't mess with it for fear of becoming socially ostracized by the blind followers.

I'm a real Christian because I see faults in the church and say "That's pretty dumb, so screw it!". I'm a better person for challenging my religion and loving it more, unlike those who take every word as the truth.

Qayin(and assorted others), I have a few issues with what you said:

Atheist don't do it because it's illegal ,and no one really enjoys jail or prison.

Boobs would not be sexual if they were a part of normality, they were only sexual for being taboo, a no-no zone, a sin. Well it was a sin because we made it so, and since "Sinning" is something we're so apparently damn good at, it rose in the eyes of repressed men.

I'm not really a fan of the idea, but let the people do whatever the hell they want with their bodies!

 

[Seydaman]

Well it really isn't that unusual (for both sexes to go topless) outside of the USA. You obviously haven't done a lot of travelling around Europe have you? Throughout much of europe there isn't a lot of difference between men and women going topless, and far less hassle about going completely nude. In Germany, for example, you'll see female office-workers sunbathing topless in the parks during their lunch-break, no special laws required. There's female toplessness in ads and billboards with no controversy. You need to remember that the US is by far the most sexually conservative of all the western countries - and this is from an Aussie, whose country is about equal 2nd most conservative along with the UK (both of which are FAR less concerned with nudity than the US - I can still remember the shocked look on the US tourists' face when they saw the kind of nudity that was uncontroversial in ordinary TV and billboards in Europe). Most of the Western world isn't quite as repressed as you guys.

awesome

 

[EzraPound]

Newsflash - boobs are a sexual thing. I know this is going to come as a shock to a lot of folks here but this is true. And sexual things are generally not welcomed on busses, in resturants, in the hospital wards, and on the roadside at busy junctions.

Breast are sexual. Simple as. Man chest isn't.
You seem rather obsessed with the ladies, I know we're awesome but still...

The fact breasts are considered more 'sexualized' than male nipples is a social construct. Insofar as I know, there is no special circumstance that supports it - so I wouldn't go around making assertions about what's 'sexual' due to social conditioning as if it's somehow not subject to change. And legality is a good start.

There are really two parts to this for me, one half of me would LOVE it if attractive women walked around topless on hot days, but then the other half gets me angry at even the thought of any other guys eyeing up my girlfriend if she were to do the same.

Thanks for encapsulating male ownership of the female sexuality (as a "concept") in a sentence.

The male torso is not considered sexualised, as it contains no true sexual importance. It is merely a torso, possibly the acceptance of men going topless stems back to manual labour in hot weather.

I disagree. Think about an epic poem that alludes frequently to Achilles' 'sinewy torso' or how tabloids predominantly marketed toward women constantly feature males in swimwear and you might become less stalwart.

To me I feel that the church is in control, but the people don't mess with it for fear of becoming socially ostracized by the blind followers.

The church runs what? Sexism is a social problem that can be attributed to many factors relating to the history of our culture, so I wouldn't assert that the church are Machiavellian puppetmasters making sure women are ridiculed on Xbox Live or can't get jobs during the age bracket where they 'should be raising kids' in Japan. Geez: often when people blame things on religion in the forum, they're just making blanket statements and detracting from any genuine inquiry of why social conditions are what they are.

 

[maffro]

It's nothing to do with religion these days, espcially not Islam, that'd just be an immauture claim considering that there was stigma against women going topless long before widespread immigration.

The male torso is not considered sexualised, as it contains no true sexual importance. It is merely a torso, possibly the acceptance of men going topless stems back to manual labour in hot weather.

Breasts are completely different, they are connected to raising a child, fertility, and therefore are immediately connected to sex. In everyday circumstances the sight of breasts would be considered to over sexualise a situation, while the male torso does this to a far lesser extent.

Still, there are certain scenarios where it becomes acceptable. Holidays and beaches in hot weather seem to negate the sexualisation of the body, at least while sunbathing. However you're much less likely to see a woman leaving the beach and remaining topless.

I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore... basically

Breasts: Sexy and fertile genitals
Man breasts: None of the above.

 

[Aiden Rebirth]

hm...this topic is kinda disturbing, and coulda been solved with a "different strokes for different folks". every culture is different so they take things differently, and in no way will it change over night.

 

[Helnurath]

If children were exposed to it on a daily basis at an early age, and self control/discipline inforced; It would be fine.

 

[EzraPound]

Women's breasts are considered sexual organs because of their sensitivity, with that said would you go around your neighbourhood with your penis hanging out of your pants?

This is a bad functionalist argument. Am I to believe that men's arms are sexual organs because in orthodox Islam they're supposed to cover them too?

Get a classroom full of atheist 14 year olds, and then get a woman to teach them all topless. If you are going to claim it would all be fine then you are talking out of your ass. If you are going to say there might be a few difficulties then you can't blame religion for this one.

So because of prejudice that results in the objectification of women when they expose the same region of their body as men, it somehow makes sense not to legalize going topless? I don't follow - attractive women have a hard time teaching young males, anyway.

 

[Varchld]

The fact breasts are considered more 'sexualized' than male nipples is a social construct. Insofar as I know, there is no special circumstance that supports it - so I wouldn't go around making assertions about what's 'sexual' due to social conditioning as if it's somehow not subject to change. And legality is a good start.

It's based around the correlation between the increase in breast size during puberty "stating" that the girl is sexually mature in my opinion. I don't know whether that is recognised mentally as part of our breeding instincts or mearly from social conditioning. Could be both.

 

[Helnurath]

Something intresting that came up when I googled "Christian Nudist", http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/10/26/christian-nudists-torn-between-two-worlds.htm

 

[Caliostro]

with that said would you go around your neighbourhood with your penis hanging out of your pants?

I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean I should, or would, forbid anyone to do so if they wished... I'd probably think it was silly, but then again almost everything people do nowadays seems downright retarded to me... So "silly" is somewhat refreshing.


@Op: For the same reason it's totally socially acceptable for a 12 year old kid to play a game where he shoots, bludgeons and stabs people dead, but if there is a nipple in it then ALL HAIL HATEMAIL AND DISGRUNTLED PARENTS!! Because people are ignorant.

 

[EzraPound]

It's based around the correlation between the increase in breast size during puberty "stating" that the girl is sexually mature in my opinion. I don't know whether that is recognised mentally as part of our breeding instincts or mearly from social conditioning. Could be both.

Yes, but the notion that people - and especially women - should cover parts of their bodies which you could culturally interpret as 'sexualized' even when there's no physical reason to do so seems to me just a less restrictive variant of what occurs in orthodox Islam. Faces spur attraction. Is that worth remarking? I feel like you could use the false justifier of sexual pretense to hypothetically force women to cover anything.

On another note, a woman in the city I live in (Guelph, ON) was pivotal in earning women the right to go legally topless, which I agree with. Since then, I've had a prof that breastfed in class. Here's a quote from the Wikipedia article:

In February 2005 in California, attorney Liana Johnsson contended that under Megan's Law, women convicted of indecent exposure (for breastfeeding or sunbathing) could find themselves listed as sex offenders alongside rapists and child molesters. In 1991 in Canada, Gwen Jacob was arrested for walking down a street in Guelph, Ontario while topless. She was acquitted in 1996 by the highest court in Ontario.

 

[Uskis]

Women are allowed to bathe topless in danish indoor public pools. On all public beaches, You are allowed to be nude, as long as you're not acting offending soo... what morality?

 

[USSR]

It's just our society..nothing is wrong with it.

Its just they way it is

 

[Bocca]

If it was legal do you think they would go topless. No. At least the majority wouldn't.

 

[videonerd250]

My feelings on this whole "penis" arguement, it's a really stupid one. Just because breasts are considered sexual does not equate them with a male's reproductive organ. Breasts have been sexualized by society, while penises have been used for sex forever. The actual equivalent of a penis would be a vagina, and I'm really not for people walking around pant-less.

Get a classroom full of atheist 14 year olds, and then get a woman to teach them all topless. If you are going to claim it would all be fine then you are talking out of your ass. If you are going to say there might be a few difficulties then you can't blame religion for this one.

So because of prejudice that results in the objectification of women when they expose the same region of their body as men, it somehow makes sense not to legalize going topless?

Well, when you put it that way...yeah.

 

[Helnurath]

Umm...yeah. I think that has to do more with Victorian England than Islamic culture.

In fact, the Islamic culture is more concerned with HAIR than breasts. If an Islamic woman is caught in the shower, she will cover her hair. (It was in a sociology book, but damned if I have it any more.) My guess is that because America was formed by Deeply religious people, our culture still has a more prude side than most other countries.

Exactly! Most of our so called "morals" are based in religious ideals.