Why PC gamers aren't okay with the changes to MW2

[Sassafrass]

I really just can't see the fuss. Its a change and a risk, but it'll probably come for the better.

Now that we've established that despite first hand experience you don't get it, maybe you should stop telling everyone who does like the traditional system that they should just bend over and take it because your preferred system is just so much better. Even if dedicated serverless matchmaking nonsense vanishes in the pc space you'll still have your xbox live. Be merry.

What's sad to see is the aggression at a developer trying something new. Defending a tradition without witnessing the alternative is a bad bad sign for a community. Hell if it comes out and it doesn't work, no big deal, experimental failed why does it equal rage-splosion?

The PC community needs a big deep breath and then to wait and see.

Change is good.

Word of advice, mate. Don't continue. You're not gonna win here.

OT: Back to the original topic, as a console gamer, I sympathise with the PC gamers.
I believe that was what the OP asked originally.

 

[rossatdi]

is being removed for what amounts to no reason.

And here we have the essence of the argument.

On one hand we have an industry leader in its field experimenting with something new. Something it has undoubtedly tested for thousands of hours of gameplay.
vs.
Fanboys. The masses who haven't used or seen it.

One assumes the Infinity Ward are not so stupid as to intentionally and expensively knee-cap themselves. Just because you don't accept a reason, does not mean they're not damn sure of them.

Seeing as IW are a little raw about, fairly or not, the perceived piracy on CoD4 its not too surprising they've been a little non-cuddly on the PC community communications this time round.

They know it will sell. They are hearing the bleats of a legion of angry fanboys. They probably would prefer they just shut their mouths and give them the chance to demonstrate ... their reasons.

Something which has already been tried on the platform and failed is new? It is worth trying? It is worth attempting when even the platforms that have this kind of connection scheme as the standard experience lag up the ass because of a bad host, or poor matchmaking algorithms that fail to find people with good connections or people with the same skill level? I play fighting games online sometimes trust me when I say that matchmaking and p2p connection systems are crap when you need precision.

Its a commonly know case that fighting games require the most immediate response time, and have always had a problem with online. That's not the issue here.

People are apparently not prepared to let a developer try something they're experienced at. You talk to 360 players and the number of matches that are laggy due to a bad host are few and far between.

I play CoD4 on the system their proposing. Lag experience = minimal. Game experience = intense plesaure. Desire to hunt to yet another server filled with people that are playing Bloc on a 24-hour repeat = low.

 

[W00ty32]

Ok, first off, I want to say this. I really feel for the PC gamers, as IW is being a complete and utter **** about this.

I only found out about the 18 player limit recently, and I am very tempted to cancel my pre-purchase, beacause playing on 18P servers is not interesting to me. I've played on 18 player servers before and I found the matches to be boring and under-populated.

But this is weird to me. As a PS3 gamer, I don't like 18P matches. because I think they have too many people. Looking at alot of CoD4 Maps, I can't see how pc-gamers can fit more than 24 people on them without rampant spawn-killing and frustration. I mean, I'm going to guess that most of the 64 player servers were on custom maps, that were designed for that size. but on the default maps? really?

 

[rossatdi]

I really just can't see the fuss. Its a change and a risk, but it'll probably come for the better.

Now that we've established that despite first hand experience you don't get it, maybe you should stop telling everyone who does like the traditional system that they should just bend over and take it because your preferred system is just so much better. Even if dedicated serverless matchmaking nonsense vanishes in the pc space you'll still have your xbox live. Be merry.

What's sad to see is the aggression at a developer trying something new. Defending a tradition without witnessing the alternative is a bad bad sign for a community. Hell if it comes out and it doesn't work, no big deal, experimental failed why does it equal rage-splosion?

The PC community needs a big deep breath and then to wait and see.

Change is good.

Word of advice, mate. Don't continue. You're not gonna win here.

OT: Back to the original topic, as a console gamer, I sympathise with the PC gamers.
I believe that was what the OP asked originally.

Sssh! Don't tell anyone, I'm at work and I don't care if these guys want to get themselves worked up. I'm earning £20 an hour counting down the clock till the weekend. I used to be in a debate club. This is less than taxing and helps the time tick by.

Personally I really do think the rage-splosion is a combination of a fear of change and a lack of trust in a leading developer.

 

[Nazz3]

The pirates will have the game up on the torrent sites soon, if they haven't already, and the code will be ripped apart and modded to allow everything gamers want.

Now that would be awesome, IW would get what they deserve

IW is just a bunch of fanboys who think PC is having it way too good.

The only reason they took our dedicated servers, clans, recording, leaning, mods, custom maps, console, non-laggy gameplay, is because some kid whined that the navigation menu is too complicated. The whole PC is complicated, you cant do pretty much anything without errors. If a server navigation is too complicated, you need to buy a console, thats what most of the gamers have done.

 

[shadow skill]

is being removed for what amounts to no reason.

And here we have the essence of the argument.

On one hand we have an industry leader in its field experimenting with something new. Something it has undoubtedly tested for thousands of hours of gameplay.
vs.
Fanboys. The masses who haven't used or seen it.

One assumes the Infinity Ward are not so stupid as to intentionally and expensively knee-cap themselves. Just because you don't accept a reason, does not mean they're not damn sure of them.

Seeing as IW are a little raw about, fairly or not, the perceived piracy on CoD4 its not too surprising they've been a little non-cuddly on the PC community communications this time round.

They know it will sell. They are hearing the bleats of a legion of angry fanboys. They probably would prefer they just shut their mouths and give them the chance to demonstrate ... their reasons.

Something which has already been tried on the platform and failed is new? It is worth trying? It is worth attempting when even the platforms that have this kind of connection scheme as the standard experience lag up the ass because of a bad host, or poor matchmaking algorithms that fail to find people with good connections or people with the same skill level? I play fighting games online sometimes trust me when I say that matchmaking and p2p connection systems are crap when you need precision.

Its a commonly know case that fighting games require the most immediate response time, and have always had a problem with online. That's not the issue here.

People are apparently not prepared to let a developer try something they're experienced at. You talk to 360 players and the number of matches that are laggy due to a bad host are few and far between.

I play CoD4 on the system their proposing. Lag experience = minimal. Game experience = intense plesaure. Desire to hunt to yet another server filled with people that are playing Bloc on a 24-hour repeat = low.

Yea right, few and far between my ass, it is routine to have a game miss proper hit detection because of a combination of lag and the correction algorithm in use. Lag or more appropriately latency isn't just what happens when your game is moving like a slideshow, it is the weird things that happen like shots registering after someone has passed by.

P2P has already been tried and it has already proven to be terrible for the two genres that really need the precision. Matchmaking has already been tried and proven itself to not always be the most effective means of finding a game. However matchmaking and P2P allow companies like Microsoft to charge for the privilege to play online while the maintenance cost is virtually nil. They allow developers to just throw the online in there because they know that millions of people have no idea that they are being royally shafted!

 

[hieiwrath]

Im a fps and rts pc gamer, I think maybe we need to see the game running than say that it sucks already. I was thinking in pre order but now i think ill see if the multiplayer will be good with these changes before buying but i liked the game and maybe they have a motive to these changes. I dont think they made these changes because they are abandoning the pc comunity, this game is the most pre-order game right? so it alreadt sold a lot.

 

[Kinichie]

I want to play with people that will be in my country and not be forced to have to play games hosted by the Americans. No Offense to you guys, just I don't like 175 ping as a norm

 

[shadow skill]

I want to play with people that will be in my country and not be forced to have to play games hosted by the Americans. No Offense to you guys, just I don't like 175 ping as a norm

None taken.

 

[slopeslider]

is being removed for what amounts to no reason.

And here we have the essence of the argument.

On one hand we have an industry leader in its field experimenting with something new. Something it has undoubtedly tested for thousands of hours of gameplay.
vs.
Fanboys. The masses who haven't used or seen it.

One assumes the Infinity Ward are not so stupid as to intentionally and expensively knee-cap themselves. Just because you don't accept a reason, does not mean they're not damn sure of them.

Seeing as IW are a little raw about, fairly or not, the perceived piracy on CoD4 its not too surprising they've been a little non-cuddly on the PC community communications this time round.

They know it will sell. They are hearing the bleats of a legion of angry fanboys. They probably would prefer they just shut their mouths and give them the chance to demonstrate ... their reasons.

Something which has already been tried on the platform and failed is new? It is worth trying? It is worth attempting when even the platforms that have this kind of connection scheme as the standard experience lag up the ass because of a bad host, or poor matchmaking algorithms that fail to find people with good connections or people with the same skill level? I play fighting games online sometimes trust me when I say that matchmaking and p2p connection systems are crap when you need precision.

Its a commonly know case that fighting games require the most immediate response time, and have always had a problem with online. That's not the issue here.

People are apparently not prepared to let a developer try something they're experienced at. You talk to 360 players and the number of matches that are laggy due to a bad host are few and far between.

I play CoD4 on the system their proposing. Lag experience = minimal. Game experience = intense plesaure. Desire to hunt to yet another server filled with people that are playing Bloc on a 24-hour repeat = low.

Yea right, few and far between my ass, it is routine to have a game miss proper hit detection because of a combination of lag and the correction algorithm in use. Lag or more appropriately latency isn't just what happens when your game is moving like a slideshow, it is the weird things that happen like shots registering after someone has passed by.

P2P has already been tried and it has already proven to be terrible for the two genres that really need the precision. Matchmaking has already been tried and proven itself to not always be the most effective means of finding a game. However matchmaking and P2P allow companies like Microsoft to charge for the privilege to play online while the maintenance cost is virtually nil. They allow developers to just throw the online in there because they know that millions of people have no idea that they are being royally shafted!

Let's say the console version only had 480p support. The IW says its so the game can run better graphics with little slowdown. Will you take their word for it? or if there was no customizable online play, you just pick 'online' and the game decides what mode you will play in and what maps.
They already had the coding for the dedicated servers and all the features they took out. All they had to do was implement them.

It's like if A furniture store always sold desks at $200, and it came pre-assembled. they do this for years with great success and a loyal following. then they decide to take away the top 2 shelves of the desk, it's not pre-assembled anymore because they couldn't be bothered with buying screws, AND they have the balls to charge you $240 for this gutted down crap. Would you take their word for it when they say 'trust us, we know what we're doing'?

What if your honda started selling Accords with no back seats pre-installed, so that 'there would be reduced weight and higher performance'. Would you accept it?

I dont even have a Pc, but There's NO reason to remove several features you ALREADY have prepared, and are the time-tested industry standard in lieu of a new experimantal feature. bad company had gold rush, a new mode, but they didnt screw over the crowd by leaving out conquest mode. Halo 3 had the rocket race playlist for a while, but they didnt remove team slayer to get it. [wishful_thinking]Mw2 had IW.net, but they didnt have to remove any of the standard features to get it[/wishful_thinking].
And don't start on laggy matches. I have a 5mbps connection, and on xbox live I keep getting slight lag no matter what. it's RARE I get 4 bar connection. It's not like the p2p only matches me with people in NC, or at least the east coast so there would be minimal lag. Noo, I get the UK, california, canada, Sweden, etc. WE on the consoles have gotten use to lag so much we dont even see it unless its REALLY bad, like jumping around and teleporting and such.
Yesterday on TDM the entire other team had 4 bars while we had 1 4 bar, 4 2's and a 1. I didnt ask for this crap! Nor do I pay $40 a month for a high speed connnection only to be placed in laggy p2p matches.

And your right. they KNOW it will sell, which is why they've nerfed the pc version for no apparent reason other than to save time, money, or if Activision's forcing them. You can have IW and Dedi-servs. you can have 9v9 and 20vs20. I dont know why they decided to take out dedicated servers, if IW.net's so super-awesome then it would have the majority of players, and the dedicated servers could still be used by the fans who prefer them. That is, unless it was because they KNEW given the choice between decent-at-best p2p @ IW.net and dedicated servers, the players would pick servers most of the time.

 

[JeanLuc761]

that's right, Im surprised that the whole controversy is over whether or not PC gamers get "Their Version", even after IW has stated, numerous times, possibly while banging their heads on their keyboards in disgust at the rampant fanboyism that the game is the exact same across all platforms, and that they wish people would look at it as a single game, not by 'versions'

Whenever a high end gaming PC costs the same as console, then we'll talk about platform equality.

so just because you decided to waste right around $800 for a better computer, your automatically entitled to have better things, excuse me, but:

Spoiler

No.

Read it again, maybe you are slightly intellectually challenged. The poster I quoted was the one going on about each platform being the same, I mentioned that how can they be the same if one costs at least twice the other. I mean you don't see Nova drivers whinging that their car isn't as good as BMW, do you?

And it wasn't a waste.

obviously you are, because had you read what I had wrote, you would of seen this:

that's right, Im surprised that the whole controversy is over whether or not PC gamers get "Their Version", even after IW has stated, numerous times, possibly while banging their heads on their keyboards in disgust at the rampant fanboyism that the game is the exact same across all platforms, and that they wish people would look at it as a single game, not by 'versions'

Actual wording:

I was talking to this one guy recently ... he was a very angry PS3 user. Angry because he was like 'why aren't you talking about the PS3 version?' and I'm like, NO, we're talking about the GAME, not the 360 version. Just the fact that we have to explain that. Seriously. Calm down, and just look at this. The game is equal on every platform, so when we talk about a feature of the game it applies to the game as a whole. The console wars really anger me because so much effort goes into ensuring the game is the same on each platform.

Proof: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/95520-Console-Wars-Make-Infinity-Ward-Angry

so with this, this is why PC gamers get no sympathy.

A game developer makes a game that will be an equal across all platforms, and of course the PC fanboys go up in arms because they don't get 'their version'.

when the developer themselves say that the game is going to be the exact same across all platforms, you can expect it will indeed be the same across all platforms.

really all its boiling down to is the normal PC fanboy elitism that the PC platform is notorious for.

You don't quite seem to be getting it. The PC costs more than consoles because it can do more and because a high-end PC will blow any console out of the water in terms of graphical performance. PC gamers put more money into their PC than consoles, and we expect products to match. It's been this way for 15 years, I see no reason why we should suddenly "downgrade" to accommodate the console users. PC and consoles are separate, as they should be. It's a completely different consumer base in each group, each with different expectations.

You get what you pay for. In this case, we're being asked to pay MORE for LESS. Consoles cost less, and you GET less. PC gamers pay more, and have always gotten more.

 

[Booze Zombie]

It does seem like what IW is doing is gimping their game so as to keep the release date, even though GTA 4 got away with a half-a-year of delay.

Pc online gaming and console online gaming is supposed to be diffrent, it's how it's always been, it's not fanboyism to include basic features for a system supporting those features.