Why PC gamers aren't okay with the changes to MW2

[hieiwrath]

"What is it with all the console trolls on these forums?

How do consoles even access this site?!

HOW ARE YOU POSTING WITHOUT A KEYBOARD?!?!?

*goes mad!!*"

Took from a post by vandigeth in another site, I laughed

 

[out0v0rder]

when the developer themselves say that the game is going to be the exact same across all platforms, you can expect it will indeed be the same across all platforms.

really all its boiling down to is the normal PC fanboy elitism that the PC platform is notorious for.

So the DS version is the same as the PS3 version?

 

[Ishnuvalok]

I am a retarded consolefag who's too lazy to browse a server list in order to search for a game within the same timeframe it takes for my matchmaking system to find a game.

Fixed that for ya'.

You know, just because YOU don't like something, doesn't mean that IT'S NOT IMPORTANT TO ANYONE ELSE.

OT: After the no dedicated servers fiasco I canceled my pre order and opted to pirate it. Funny, I've never pirated a CoD game before because I felt that they were worth spending money on.

 

[Nugma]

Can we please just lock every MW2 controversy thread until a week after the game? It sucks I can't read The Escapist without closing the browser in frustration after 5 minutes on the board. The threads are getting worse with each time. People need to wait and see before whining.

 

[out0v0rder]

Can we please just lock every MW2 controversy thread until a week after the game? It sucks I can't read The Escapist without closing the browser in frustration after 5 minutes on the board. The threads are getting worse with each time. People need to wait and see before whining.

you aren't helping young sir.

 

[hieiwrath]

Maybe the new online system will be good. But i read from a console owner that the p2p system that the consoles have, has a lot of problems with players that are laggy. And that maybe what the pc gamers are complaining is that the server system has less problems. How good is the p2p system for consoles?

 

[JeanLuc761]

and thank you for reinforcing the PC fanboy stereotype.

I didn't realize I could be a fanboy simply by stating facts, but let's analyze what I'm saying.

1) FACT: PC's cost more than consoles, and as such, can do more and are more powerful.
2) FACT: Consoles cost less than a PC, and as such, are limited both in hardware and games.
3) FACT: Console gamers and PC gamers are two entirely different consumer bases, so it's rather foolish for a company to try and unify the two instead of catering to individual expectations.
4) FACT: With very few exceptions (Halo 2 Vista, looking at you), PC's have, for 15 years, gotten the "definitive" version of any multi-platform game released because of the PC platform being more advanced than consoles.
5) FACT: Dedicated servers, mods and console commands are all things that have been consistent over 10+ years of PC gaming. It isn't a false sense of "entitlement" to expect these things to be in a PC game; it's a standard, and is virtually a requirement.
6) FACT: Dedicated servers on a PC have always outclassed the performance seen in a P2P network setup. There is no changing this.


Where's the fanboyism in that?

 

[out0v0rder]

nope, only Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Mobilized for the DS, which is by itself an entirely different game.

Thank goodness it is a different game, or else alot of gamers would be cheesed off if IW turned down the graphical details and online capabilities of the console versions of MW2 in order to make it work on the DS too. Maybe people are less likely to whine or complain when a game is built to take advantage of all the features that an individual platform is capable of, instead of trying to build some homogeneous game for the lowest common denominator.

This is all speculation by the way. I guess.

3) FACT: Console gamers and PC gamers are two entirely different consumer bases, so it's rather foolish for a company to try and unify the two instead of catering to individual expectations.

You probably said this better than I did.

 

[Captain_Caveman]

what? that makes no sense. If the game cost a bagillion dollars or 1 cent; and the dev got the same amount of money you'd have a point. But, The whole argument i'm dispelling is the "PC gamers arent paying THEM more money; so the devs shouldn't PCize the game." But they ARE paying them more. $10 more per copy. What is occurring at the end transaction is irrelevant to the pricing structure.

You also seem to be missing the whole point of this thread. I guess you didn't even read the article in the OP.

First, don't turn this in a pissing contest. Disagreement does not condone offenses.

Second, here's the full quote:

Why should PC gamers get more than console owners?

They certainly don't pay more.

No where does it say there that they "pay THEM more", so you are reading into things that don't exist.

And even if it did, that still doesn't give validity to your point. Profit margins do not define a product's value, if they did, some things would be a lot cheaper.

Here's the problem with the "paying $10 more" argument: you don't define the worth of the game, they do. They determined that the price should be the same for the same amount of content. For you, it looks as a price hike ONLY because previous games were cheaper, but for them, it?s just the games worth.

When you say ?PC games give them $10 more bucks?, for starters, that?s just an assumption based on the lack of licensing, but you are also assuming that the PC version's costs and profit somehow apply only to the PC version of the game. Unfortunately, that?s not how multiplatform releases work.

All the costs of the game are pooled: all the licensing, the distribution of the game in all its platforms, printing materials, etc, they are ALL paid by the same budget. There?s no ?PC version costs? Vs ?Console version costs? during the development of the game, and in this case, even less because the added costs of PC maintenance, which are usually budgeted separately from the actual game?s development, are not even a factor. All the profit the game makes goes to paying the development of their next game (minus commissions and stuff).

if you're going to use the argument of what people are paying for it (as flawed as that is as it implies the retailer and not the developer is the provider of value, the very fact that you're arguing they shouldn't get more means you admit they're getting LESS than what was promised), then how come PC gamers should pay the same amount for a game not designed for PC? console gets a game designed for console for the same price right? The very fact that console systems dont work on PC means PC is getting LESS with the SAME system. Why should PC gamers pay the same but get LESS then? see, even though the logic behind that original quote ur trying to defend was flawed to the bone; even that flawed logic leads to the same conclusion.

either way you spin it, PC gamers are getting screwed. no ifs, ands or buts.
Your whole argument is based on the premise that they would be operating at a loss if they created the game the way a PC game should be; and that is an argument based on a lie. The vast majority of their budget goes towards art, level design, game engine tweaks (it is just a derivative of the cod4 engine; huge cost savings there already), voice work & mocap, music and marketing. paying programmers is only a fraction of that, and paying programmers to add those PC features would be a fraction of that fraction.

The real (& nefarious imo) reason they're doing this is to remove power from the player community & place it all in IW.NET so they control how content is distributed and what content is allowed. mods might interfere w/ their own DLC; so this is them killing the competition. they know this will make the game worse, but they're relying that people are naive enough to fall for empty promises.

it reminds me of a post i saw on another forum

View Post
Me: "Hi, I need to replace my tires?"
Salesman: "Hey, these new tires are made of wood!"
Me: "No thanks, that sounds stupid."
Salesman: "You won't know until you try them!"
Me: "No, I'm pretty sure that wood tires don't work very well on a car."
Salesman: "Ohh, come on, try them!"
Me: "Well, alright. Let me try."
Salesman: "No, you have to buy them first."

p.s. PC maintenance isnt higher, it's lower. Game devs/Pubs have to pay MS & Sony to 'check and certify' every single patch or DLC bit before it gets released. There is no overlord on PC that charges tolls for use of the platform.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Console gamers, can you empathize w/ PC gamers?

PC gamers, does this article worry you about the future of PC gaming?

The fact the market is smaller and more prone to piracy means the returns for companies are lower. Accept the change and pray for mice/keyboards to be added to consoles.

For the biggest budget games, consoles are just going to be the standard now. I'm sorry, you can piss and moan about it as much as you want but its not going to change the fact.

I'm sorry but that is bs it is just as easy to pirate on consoles if not easier.

OT: This change is absolute shite it has been done before and P2P it doesn't work you can tell exactly who is the source by who is the best.

The system is way more "unfair" and "unintuitive" than dedicated servers by a long shot.

I hope IW drops this idea and patches the game to give it dedicated servers.

I think PC gamers deserve to piss and moan about because we buy the games if we don't buy they don't get money. We were one that bought the game when the series first came out and allowed it to become a hit series if we didn't like it and no one played it after the first one the CoD series would just be a footnote in gaming history.

Also if they are gonna piss on us they'll piss on you.

 

[rossatdi]

What if your honda started selling Accords with no back seats pre-installed, so that 'there would be reduced weight and higher performance'. Would you accept it?

No, but then I'm not being forced to buy it. No one is forcing you to buy MW2. No one has an entitlement to the game as they want it.

Infinity Ward make game.
Game is available.
You don't like its style, you don't buy.

Rage? Why?

I don't like the idea of buying, say, a bacon sandwich with reduced bacon in order to be a healthier sandwich. But if its advertised as such, I can choose not to buy it, I can't really feel entitled to that sandwich maker changing its product.

 

[slopeslider]

and thank you for reinforcing the PC fanboy stereotype.

I didn't realize I could be a fanboy simply by stating facts, but let's analyze what I'm saying.

1) FACT: PC's cost more than consoles, and as such, can do more and are more powerful.
2) FACT: Consoles cost less than a PC, and as such, are limited both in hardware and games.
3) FACT: Console gamers and PC gamers are two entirely different consumer bases, so it's rather foolish for a company to try and unify the two instead of catering to individual expectations.
4) FACT: With very few exceptions (Halo 2 Vista, looking at you), PC's have, for 15 years, gotten the "definitive" version of any multi-platform game released because of the PC platform being more advanced than consoles.
5) FACT: Dedicated servers, mods and console commands are all things that have been consistent over 10+ years of PC gaming. It isn't a false sense of "entitlement" to expect these things to be in a PC game; it's a standard, and is virtually a requirement.
6) FACT: Dedicated servers on a PC have always outclassed the performance seen in a P2P network setup. There is no changing this.


Where's the fanboyism in that?

1.) not really, if you feel cheap you can get an e-machines for right around 200, add in one or two 2gb ram sticks and you have a decent computer. that comes right around 350 if you go cheap, add another hundred or so for an upgraded graph. card. put it into perspective, my game library, if sold for how much I bought them for, could easily get me a great computer right now, however, I find it simpler to get a game and not have to go through and optimize it to get a good framrate.

2.)limited in hardware, maybe, but far from capabilities. Ill break trend and use the Ps3 here as an example, Ps3 games [well, some of them, not all] are beyond astounding in terms of graphics. as for limited in games, I wish you could see my game library, the only rival to it is the AVGN's, only because he goes back to cartridges. lets add the fact that a majority of PC games are also on the consoles, if you look at it, consoles have more exclusives than that of PC's.

3.) foolish? hardly. look at Shadowrun, where you can play on he 360 and PC's [at the same time even] and tell me that they are two entirely different consumer bases.

4.) if your going for advanced, the Ps3 would beat out the PC [im sorry 360'ers, its fairly true], its hard to say that the PC platform is more advanced when you can buy sets for game development and copy/paste them and say its a new game.

5.) while I cant argue with console commands being regarded as standard in games, IW has stated that they wish people to play the game as it is intended to be played as. so what if you cant change your pov to 85 instead of 60.

6.) untill you look at how pings range for people not in the same country, for example back when I played Arma, one server we had was based in the UK, a normal ping of 190-ish for me, but in Dallas, Tx [fairly close to where I live], I would get a sub 100 ping, 24 to be exact. now for other servers, it was right around 300-600 ping per server, and you cant say "get a better internet connection" as so many fanboys have said before, Internet connections dont influence ping or lag whatsoever. Now on p2p games on the console, I look for the green ping light, hit join, bam, Im in game in a little under 20 seconds rather searching around for a game with a low enough ping for any type of lag to be insignificant.

so really if PC's are the power houses you claim them to be, why are people outraged that they have to use p2p. by your logic it wouldn't matter at all.

You dont need a better pc to reduce lag, you need a better connection. from a server.

What if your honda started selling Accords with no back seats pre-installed, so that 'there would be reduced weight and higher performance'. Would you accept it?

No, but then I'm not being forced to buy it. No one is forcing you to buy MW2. No one has an entitlement to the game as they want it.

Infinity Ward make game.
Game is available.
You don't like its style, you don't buy.

Rage? Why?

I don't like the idea of buying, say, a bacon sandwich with reduced bacon in order to be a healthier sandwich. But if its advertised as such, I can choose not to buy it, I can't really feel entitled to that sandwich maker changing its product.

You dont like what their saying? Dont read it. As no one is forcing pc users to buy mw2, no one is forcing you to waste your time arguing with them. so why are you here? are you tired of intentionally clicking these articles then being magically surprised by the content? I dont go on to 4chan and then moan about how rascist and narrow-minded they are, yet you feel entitled to let others know they're dumb for complainng. From now on no one should ever voice dissenting opinions. You dont like what we're saying? dont read it.
rage at the rage at mw2. why?

 

[rossatdi]

You dont like what their saying? Dont read it. As no one is forcing pc users to buy mw2, no one is forcing you to waste your time arguing with them. so why are you here? are you tired of intentionally clicking these articles then being magically surprised by the content? I dont go on to 4chan and then moan about how rascist and narrow-minded they are, yet you feel entitled to let others know they're dumb for complainng. From now on no one should ever voice dissenting opinions. You dont like what we're saying? dont read it.
rage at the rage at mw2. why?

Because I'm at work and have nothing better to do with my time at the moment. Why else would anyone else go on a forum. Unemployment, student or unmonitored internet access at work. They're the only reasons.

 

[slopeslider]

yeah man I know! It's so hard to not click the mw2 articles man. also, I have the willpower of a 4 yr old.

 

[Chadling]

DudezTY: Since we cannot kick people in ranked matches, how will we stop hackers who get past VAC?

Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have seen the future.....


And it SUCKS. Bring on the modders, we have some work that needs to be done.

 

[Avatar Roku]

I really just can't see the fuss. Its a change and a risk, but it'll probably come for the better.

Now that we've established that despite first hand experience you don't get it, maybe you should stop telling everyone who does like the traditional system that they should just bend over and take it because your preferred system is just so much better. Even if dedicated serverless matchmaking nonsense vanishes in the pc space you'll still have your xbox live. Be merry.

What's sad to see is the aggression at a developer trying something new. Defending a tradition without witnessing the alternative is a bad bad sign for a community. Hell if it comes out and it doesn't work, no big deal, experimental failed why does it equal rage-splosion?

The PC community needs a big deep breath and then to wait and see.

Change is good.

You're making it sound like some huge new innovation, but this is something that has been tried and thoroughly disliked on PCs.

 

[JeanLuc761]

1.) not really, if you feel cheap you can get an e-machines for right around 200, add in one or two 2gb ram sticks and you have a decent computer. that comes right around 350 if you go cheap, add another hundred or so for an upgraded graph. card. put it into perspective, my game library, if sold for how much I bought them for, could easily get me a great computer right now, however, I find it simpler to get a game and not have to go through and optimize it to get a good framrate.

You're not going to get a good gaming PC for $350, anywhere. A modern gaming PC will run you around $650 and that's if you build it yourself. The advantage to this, however, is that you can run pretty much any game you want, and you can do way more on a PC than on a console (3d graphics work being one of the things I use it for). Like I said a while back; you pay more, you get more.

2.)limited in hardware, maybe, but far from capabilities. Ill break trend and use the Ps3 here as an example, Ps3 games [well, some of them, not all] are beyond astounding in terms of graphics. as for limited in games, I wish you could see my game library, the only rival to it is the AVGN's, only because he goes back to cartridges. lets add the fact that a majority of PC games are also on the consoles, if you look at it, consoles have more exclusives than that of PC's.

Consoles may have more exclusives than PC's, and that's fine, but I guarantee you that none of the consoles can compare to a high-end gaming PC in terms of sheer power.

3.) foolish? hardly. look at Shadowrun, where you can play on he 360 and PC's [at the same time even] and tell me that they are two entirely different consumer bases.
That's one example, and not a very good one at that. Shadowrun is not a very popular game, and just because it's cross-platform capable doesn't mean both platforms are looking for the same experience.

4.) if your going for advanced, the Ps3 would beat out the PC [im sorry 360'ers, its fairly true], its hard to say that the PC platform is more advanced when you can buy sets for game development and copy/paste them and say its a new game.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Firstly, every game ever developed begins its life on a PC, and is then further coded to match with whatever console it's attempting to play on. Dev kits are commonplace, no matter which platform you're looking at. Just because the PS3 has 8 cores that maybe 20% of developers can actually harness doesn't mean the system is more advanced

5.) while I cant argue with console commands being regarded as standard in games, IW has stated that they wish people to play the game as it is intended to be played as. so what if you cant change your pov to 85 instead of 60.
85 POV means you'll be able to see more on-screen at once, essentially emulating your real-life peripheral vision. For some gamers, this is a big deal (Unreal Tournament can go all the way up to 100).

6.) untill you look at how pings range for people not in the same country, for example back when I played Arma, one server we had was based in the UK, a normal ping of 190-ish for me, but in Dallas, Tx [fairly close to where I live], I would get a sub 100 ping, 24 to be exact. now for other servers, it was right around 300-600 ping per server, and you cant say "get a better internet connection" as so many fanboys have said before, Internet connections dont influence ping or lag whatsoever. Now on p2p games on the console, I look for the green ping light, hit join, bam, Im in game in a little under 20 seconds rather searching around for a game with a low enough ping for any type of lag to be insignificant.

Internet connections don't influence ping or lag whatsoever? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? If you have a slow internet connection and you're hosting, you're going to have a high ping. Period, full-stop, there is no two ways around it.

so really if PC's are the power houses you claim them to be, why are people outraged that they have to use p2p. by your logic it wouldn't matter at all.
This doesn't make any sense at all. A PC is more powerful than a console, but a PC isn't dedicated purely to the function of networking. Dedicated servers exist (for both PC and console) because neither base machine can devote all of its power direct to networking. You'd literally have to have two PC's and set one up as a dedicated server in order for the other one to play the game on said server.