Why so many people dislike LoZ these days

[DrDeath3191]

-snip- Why is it that people who see something new immediately call 'gimmick'? You might not like them, but what makes them gimmicks? I can't argue your other points, as once again they are your opinion, but I would like to know how you define the word gimmick.

I love how you completely ignored my point and changed the subject. I SAY THE GAMEPLAY IS BAD. In my opinion (Opinion, gentlemen, something no amount of slobbering over will change), no amount of crappy gimmicks will change that

gim-mick [gim-ik]
-noun 1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

Exactly. Unfortunately most of the ones in the Zelda series have failed miserably to do anything well.

Now, would you kindly stop talking to me, because your posts are simply causing me to believe that there are actually more intelligent people on YouTube.

I didn't ignore your point: I can't argue against your opinion. I merely wanted your definition of a gimmick, which you have (certainly less than kindly) provided. However, if you use this definition of gimmick, every single videogame ever made relies almost entirely upon them. Every game needs something to differentiate itself from its competitors. Otherwise, the videogame industry would be dead in the water with nothing but copy-paste gaming affairs. If people don't try something new every once in a while, how the hell will gaming advance? You might not like what they are trying, but at least they're trying.

I'm not saying that gimmicks in general are bad (Look at the Lancer from Gears or War). I'm saying that Zelda's gimmicks are bad. And now to quote myself

Every single reply I get from you mindless fanboys causes me to lose faith in the gaming community. I DIDN'T FUCKING LIKE THE GAME. THAT'S MY GOD DAMNED OPINION. IF YOU DISAGREE, THEN DISAGREE QUIETLY. THE FACT THAT YOU FEEL THE NEED TO DEFEND IT IS PATHETIC. Do you think Miyamoto is going to come to your house and congratulate you? NO. You're just showing everyone that you can not handle the fact that someone disagrees with you.

The reason we kept replying is because we wanted you to explain your specific problems with the series. Thanks to our discussion, I am satisfied. Just because we want to discuss something doesn't mean we're out to convert you.

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

Spoiler

Cause it's now on the wii, the wii is only for casual players soccer moms, therefor everything on it must be shunned and hated.
(wii owner and zelda fan btw)

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I find that most of the hatred for the Zelda series is just another example of blind hatred for anything Nintendo.

In fact, I'd like to use this topic to dissect the major complaints against the Zelda games general, and offer a rational explanation to them.

The story is always the same! I'm tired of saving the princess and fighting Ganondorf! - I'll start off with this complaint, as I feel this one is the most unjustified of the bunch. In many aspects, the story in most Zelda games remain unchanged: Link is a regular everyday person who becomes a hero and saves his land from an evil malevolent being bent on world-domination. However, this is where the similarities end. The finer points of the stories in every Zelda game have always been different, and have always succeeded in giving each game a different feel. And besides, good storytelling is more about how you tell the story rather than what story you tell, and this is where the stories in the Zelda games truly shine. Practically every game in the series has been able to draw most people into the story and make them feel like they are a part of the narrative and not just an observer. Twilight Princess's storytelling in particular had me on the verge of tears by the time I reached the end of my second playthrough. The stories in Zelda have always thrived off concepts that are simple enough to understand, but with a rich narrative underlining it that always offer an engaging experience, and this isn't changing anytime soon (I hope).

It's never been dark or mature enough for my tastes! Link is too boring and cliched! - This is also another one of the more misguided complaints. Whenever Nintendo creates a Zelda game, no matter how realistic or dark the setting/story is, it must obey the golden rule: The Zelda games must always appeal to everyone. Every Zelda game since the original has always been safe enough for kids to play, and this is never going to change. Even Majora's Mask, which arguably has the darkest undertones of any Zelda game, was given an ESRB rating of E for Everyone (for the N64; not sure what the Virtual Console port is rated). This also applies to Link himself. From the beginning, Link was always intended to be a character that the player "becomes", which is why he never speaks, or is not dark or brooding in the slightest. Hell, that's why he was named Link to begin with: To create a link between the player and the character they control. Personally, I like Link just the way he is, and I always feel like I am Link whenever I play a Zelda game.

Nintendo just rehashes the same game over and over! Nothing ever changes! - This complaint's been around for a while, but I feel that Yahtzee's antics really exacerbated this. Yes, the core mechanics of the Zelda games haven't deviated too much from Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past. Every game has dungeons to explore, heart pieces to find, boomerangs to throw, and cracks in the walls to blow up. However, these elements are what make Zelda, well, Zelda. They're what separate the games from most other action-adventure games out there, and the fact that they continue to be just as fun now as they were 10 years ago shows how well everything works. Like Flying_Emu said earlier, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." In fact, the fact that Miyamoto says the upcoming Wii Zelda won't be too radically different from previous installments has me more reassured than concerned. Changing the core mechanics for the sake of change is never a good idea, and Nintendo would undoubtedly get panned by just about everyone if they made such a radical departure from what defines a Zelda game. I'll love the series no matter what direction it takes, but I hope Nintendo never forgets what makes Zelda such a great series to begin with.

Very well put sir!

I love the legend of zelda series, every single game. I am not sure why I prefer this series to any other in existence, I just think the whole exploring huge worlds, dungeon crawling, and generally great game play mechanics keeps me coming back.

The only thing I cannot understand is the hate for Windwaker. Even a lot of Huge zelda fans shun this off as a black sheep of the series and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. Sure the sailing gets a bit boring, but it is a pretty small potion of the game when you get the warp points. It is the most visually appealing of the series, it introduced some new elements to fighting that I hope remain in the series from now on, and it was an interesting "water world-esque" twist to the classic Hyrule storyline.

They hate it for any combination of the following reasons.
1: The sailing, which does take up a bit of time before you gain access to the warp points (but I was fine with it).
2: It was too easy (valid argument).
3: They hate the art style and believe it killed the game (unreasonable) or made it too childish (fine, but you're missing out on a good game).

 

[Unit Alpha]

Nintendo's games just don't interest me.

 

[DrDeath3191]

Spoiler

Cause it's now on the wii, the wii is only for casual players soccer moms, therefor everything on it must be shunned and hated.
(wii owner and zelda fan btw)

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I find that most of the hatred for the Zelda series is just another example of blind hatred for anything Nintendo.

In fact, I'd like to use this topic to dissect the major complaints against the Zelda games general, and offer a rational explanation to them.

The story is always the same! I'm tired of saving the princess and fighting Ganondorf! - I'll start off with this complaint, as I feel this one is the most unjustified of the bunch. In many aspects, the story in most Zelda games remain unchanged: Link is a regular everyday person who becomes a hero and saves his land from an evil malevolent being bent on world-domination. However, this is where the similarities end. The finer points of the stories in every Zelda game have always been different, and have always succeeded in giving each game a different feel. And besides, good storytelling is more about how you tell the story rather than what story you tell, and this is where the stories in the Zelda games truly shine. Practically every game in the series has been able to draw most people into the story and make them feel like they are a part of the narrative and not just an observer. Twilight Princess's storytelling in particular had me on the verge of tears by the time I reached the end of my second playthrough. The stories in Zelda have always thrived off concepts that are simple enough to understand, but with a rich narrative underlining it that always offer an engaging experience, and this isn't changing anytime soon (I hope).

It's never been dark or mature enough for my tastes! Link is too boring and cliched! - This is also another one of the more misguided complaints. Whenever Nintendo creates a Zelda game, no matter how realistic or dark the setting/story is, it must obey the golden rule: The Zelda games must always appeal to everyone. Every Zelda game since the original has always been safe enough for kids to play, and this is never going to change. Even Majora's Mask, which arguably has the darkest undertones of any Zelda game, was given an ESRB rating of E for Everyone (for the N64; not sure what the Virtual Console port is rated). This also applies to Link himself. From the beginning, Link was always intended to be a character that the player "becomes", which is why he never speaks, or is not dark or brooding in the slightest. Hell, that's why he was named Link to begin with: To create a link between the player and the character they control. Personally, I like Link just the way he is, and I always feel like I am Link whenever I play a Zelda game.

Nintendo just rehashes the same game over and over! Nothing ever changes! - This complaint's been around for a while, but I feel that Yahtzee's antics really exacerbated this. Yes, the core mechanics of the Zelda games haven't deviated too much from Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past. Every game has dungeons to explore, heart pieces to find, boomerangs to throw, and cracks in the walls to blow up. However, these elements are what make Zelda, well, Zelda. They're what separate the games from most other action-adventure games out there, and the fact that they continue to be just as fun now as they were 10 years ago shows how well everything works. Like Flying_Emu said earlier, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." In fact, the fact that Miyamoto says the upcoming Wii Zelda won't be too radically different from previous installments has me more reassured than concerned. Changing the core mechanics for the sake of change is never a good idea, and Nintendo would undoubtedly get panned by just about everyone if they made such a radical departure from what defines a Zelda game. I'll love the series no matter what direction it takes, but I hope Nintendo never forgets what makes Zelda such a great series to begin with.

Very well put sir!

I love the legend of zelda series, every single game. I am not sure why I prefer this series to any other in existence, I just think the whole exploring huge worlds, dungeon crawling, and generally great game play mechanics keeps me coming back.

The only thing I cannot understand is the hate for Windwaker. Even a lot of Huge zelda fans shun this off as a black sheep of the series and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. Sure the sailing gets a bit boring, but it is a pretty small potion of the game when you get the warp points. It is the most visually appealing of the series, it introduced some new elements to fighting that I hope remain in the series from now on, and it was an interesting "water world-esque" twist to the classic Hyrule storyline.

I too wonder why people hate on Windwaker. It's one of the best games in it's generation. Hell, some current-gen games can't compare! My belief is that people don't like it because it is different from the others, the same reason Zelda 2 recieved so much flak.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

The game is very consistently a very similiar game as the last one. I would become much more intersted in the series again if they decided to drop Ganon as the Big Bad and changed the setting a bit.

You mean like in the Wind Waker?

-snip-

Everyone who saw the Spaceworld Demo of Zelda fighting Ganondorf expected a more realistic Zelda. What they got instead was the polar opposite, but one of the most original instalments of the series. Needless to say, fans who didn't expect this, voiced their distaste for the direction it took. But looking from the outside in?

"Nintendo did something different, and fans bitched".

 

[DrDeath3191]

The game is very consistently a very similiar game as the last one. I would become much more intersted in the series again if they decided to drop Ganon as the Big Bad and changed the setting a bit.

You mean like in the Wind Waker?

-snip-

Everyone who saw the Spaceworld Demo of Zelda fighting Ganondorf expected a more realistic Zelda. What they got instead was the polar opposite, but one of the most original installments of the series. Needless to say, fans who didn't expect this, voiced their distaste for the direction it took. But looking from the outside in?

"Nintendo did something different, and fans bitched".

I guess I'm alone in preferring the look they eventually went with?

But also take note that Nintendo is trying something different again, and the fans are bitching. AGAIN! I'm looking forward to Spirit Tracks. Zelda hasn't failed me yet, and I doubt it's going to now.

 

[tsolless]

The game is very consistently a very similiar game as the last one. I would become much more intersted in the series again if they decided to drop Ganon as the Big Bad and changed the setting a bit.

You mean like in the Wind Waker?

I didn't mention it, but yes. Wind Waker was one of the best installments in the series.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

-snip-

No, no I actually think The Wind Waker is one of the best titles of the series. Here's a thread that IMO proves that many people do in fact dislike Zelda:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.122455?page=7

All 200+comments prove it methinks.

The game is very consistently a very similiar game as the last one. I would become much more intersted in the series again if they decided to drop Ganon as the Big Bad and changed the setting a bit.

You mean like in the Wind Waker?

I didn't mention it, but yes. Wind Waker was one of the best installments in the series.

You could perhaps try out Majora's Mask, that one was pretty different from the rest as well, and very good.

 

[DrDeath3191]

-snip-

No, no I actually think The Wind Waker is one of the best titles of the series. Here's a thread that IMO proves that many people do in fact dislike Zelda:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.122455?page=7

All 200+comments prove it methinks.

From what I've read, it seems to prove that Yahtzee hates Zelda, and other people quote him in an attempt to be witty.

 

[Phenakist]

My only complaint with Zelda now is that it's too easy.
The originals were such a challenge (maybe because i was younger but who knows) and Twilight Princess just felt dumbed down.

Yeah I'll have to agree with you there, I played TP recently then decided to go back and play Majora's mask, the difference in depth and difficulty was frankly huge, the cause of this is the linearity, Let me explain. In twilight princess all you do is follow the story, you could completely ignore all the side stuff and still finish the game, job done, mission accomplished, lets have a party. BUT With Majora's Mask if you followed the center storyline and ignored everything else it would be complete and utter rubbish, ending up with about half a dozen or so masks you actually need to complete the dungeons, bring Majora's Mask back to the salesman and you've missed out on 3/4 of the experience. With Orcarina of Time they made the sidequests give you useful stuff, and you were frankly stupid not to do them, e.g. Zora diving contest for the free Zora Tunic.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

-snip-

No, no I actually think The Wind Waker is one of the best titles of the series. Here's a thread that IMO proves that many people do in fact dislike Zelda:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.122455?page=7

All 200+comments prove it methinks.

From what I've read, it seems to prove that Yahtzee hates Zelda, and other people quote him in an attempt to be witty.

So business as usual then?

 

[Gerazzi]

The only one that I remember that wasn't good was Phantom Hourglass. Otherwise, You'll catch me playing Windwaker/Majora's Mask/OoT for the umpteenth time.

 

[DrDeath3191]

-snip-

No, no I actually think The Wind Waker is one of the best titles of the series. Here's a thread that IMO proves that many people do in fact dislike Zelda:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.122455?page=7

All 200+comments prove it methinks.

From what I've read, it seems to prove that Yahtzee hates Zelda, and other people quote him in an attempt to be witty.

So business as usual then?

Well, of course!

 

[Ultress]

After playing most of the games I honestly did not care for either NES Zelda , due to their vagueness and in Zelda 2's case the whole battle system was kinda a wonky to me.

I can see why people hate them,Yahtzee fanboyism aside,they can be repetitive but I always find them fun. So other people hate them so what. it isn't ruining my fun.

 

[Xorghul]

Have you tried Ocarina of Time: Master Quest? They remade it. Harder. But you most already know this, right?

 

[Liberaliterr]

Dont be stupid, there is no masses of hate for LoZ.

 

[TheAmazingTGIF]

At least your: ""Aliens/nazis/faceless soldier faction X are invading the earth/US/Fictional country and you are the only one/squad of superheroes/soldiers/mercenaries/ninja pirates that can save it!"" are being developed by a bunch of different developers and publishers.
So what is Nintendo's excuse?

It's raked in billions of dollars and continues to do so even though apparently it's "On the decline"?

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Same for the space marines in power armor defending the American Homeland.
But since there are not huge amounts of Zelda clones, and the general amount of poor reviews/outlooks for Twilight Princess should say something.

It's interesting that people say that, since I've yet to see a truly negative review of TP.

If you are ok with handing your money over to Ninentdo for the same game with better graphics and some Wii-mote waggles, then fine. But I for one am completely done, and have been since the N64 area.
PS TP (not to be confused with Toilet Paper, tee hee)has one of the lowest overall Gamespot scores for the modern Zelda's (i.e. the ones that began using the same formula). With the exception of Majora's Mask, which (I hasten to remind you), did something DIFFERENT.

 

[smargh1015]

excuse me?

 

[Mr. Fister]

At least your: ""Aliens/nazis/faceless soldier faction X are invading the earth/US/Fictional country and you are the only one/squad of superheroes/soldiers/mercenaries/ninja pirates that can save it!"" are being developed by a bunch of different developers and publishers.
So what is Nintendo's excuse?

It's raked in billions of dollars and continues to do so even though apparently it's "On the decline"?

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Same for the space marines in power armor defending the American Homeland.
But since there are not huge amounts of Zelda clones, and the general amount of poor reviews/outlooks for Twilight Princess should say something.

It's interesting that people say that, since I've yet to see a truly negative review of TP.

If you are ok with handing your money over to Ninentdo for the same game with better graphics and some Wii-mote waggles, then fine. But I for one am completely done, and have been since the N64 area.
PS TP (not to be confused with Toilet Paper, tee hee)has one of the lowest overall Gamespot scores for the modern Zelda's (i.e. the ones that began using the same formula). With the exception of Majora's Mask, which (I hasten to remind you), did something DIFFERENT.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing.

And looking at both the user and professional reviews of Twilight Princess on Gamespot, I wouldn't exactly call those scores low, unless you have ridiculously high standards.

http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/thelegendofzelda/players.html?tag=player-reviews;header;more

 

[Chuplayer]

I don't like it because it hasn't been as engaging as it used to be. Zelda 64 caught my imagination like nothing else, ever, (except for Metal Gear Solid 2), and it still holds up well with me to this day. The previous four games do the same thing for me.

Every game since then has done something wrong. Wind Waker has those two boring co-op dungeons and the horrendous Triforce quest, and Twilight Princess just depresses me because it's so bland and rips off of Zelda 64 so much.

Zelda needs to take a cue from Earthbound and bring a story where Link and Zelda's descendants are kids or teenagers in the 21st century because the medieval fantasy setting might be holding them back.