why some of you hate anime?

[GloatingSwine]

2. What's wrong with normal cartoons that made you turn to anime in the first place? What makes Naruto any better than say... The Simpsons?

Bad example. The Simpsons has been shit for ages now.

If you want a better example, Avatar. Not only does it target the same demographic as Naruto (and all the other functionally identical shonen series), but it is one of the best pieces of television ever. For reference, the best pieces of television ever, in no particular order and as defined by an expert panel of me are Severed Dreams (Babylon 5 3.12), Sozin's Comet (Avatar 3.17-3.21), Love Drifts Away (Macross 1.26), and Out Of Gas (Firefly 1.8)

 

[WarriorsDawn]

* Superman might have it worse, but that's largely because of the massive power disparity between him and most of the universe's villains. Superman shouldn't have to get out of bed unless the earth's going to blow up in literally the next five minutes, but they have to find something for him to do every month, hence drek. There are literally two interesting Superman comic stories ever, and they're both long since non-canon (and both by Alan Moore). The animated Superman was hugely powered down for exactly that reason, and so was a much more interesting version of the character.

Ohhh, clearly you've not read Superman: Red Son

 

[WarriorsDawn]

2. What's wrong with normal cartoons that made you turn to anime in the first place? What makes Naruto any better than say... The Simpsons?

Bad example. The Simpsons has been shit for ages now.

If you want a better example, Avatar. Not only does it target the same demographic as Naruto (and all the other functionally identical shonen series), but it is one of the best pieces of television ever. For reference, the best pieces of television ever, in no particular order and as defined by an expert panel of me are Severed Dreams (Babylon 5 3.12), Sozin's Comet (Avatar 3.17-3.21), Love Drifts Away (Macross 1.26), and Out Of Gas (Firefly 1.8)

It might have been a bad example, but it gets my point across. I've had just about everyone recommend me Avatar. It looks pretty close to anime. Hence why I've stayed away from it.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Ohhh, clearly you've not read Superman: Red Son

Never really been a big fan of Mark Millar, he always seems to be trying too hard to be Warren Ellis and Grant Morrison at the same time, but without the bile ducts of the former or the drug habits of the latter. Also, the concept of "Superman has a real effect on the world" (another problem with comics, best expressed as Reed Richards is Useless [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless], their abilities and technology should render the world unrecognisable to our own, but don't) was handled better in Watchmen. The concept "what if Superman had actually landed in X" has only a passing interest to me.

It might have been a bad example, but it gets my point across. I've had just about everyone recommend me Avatar. It looks pretty close to anime. Hence why I've stayed away from it.

Then you have clearly failed to learn the basic aphorism about judging books by their covers, and the inadvisability thereof. Avatar takes a few cues from anime, but mostly just the concept that just because you are writing for an 8-13 year old male target demographic doesn't mean you have to be patronising. Hence it has a great deal of appeal beyond that market.

 

[Minjoltr]

I like some anime but I dislike a lot of things which seem common in it.

I tried watching Fruits Basket once. I'd heard it was good and I had nothing better to do at the time. I got half way through the second episode, I think and then the mouse/rat dude's hair started wobbling. Then he turned into a mouse/rat and his eyes started wobbling too. My friend explained that this meant he was feeling great emotion and I realised that I was watching an anime about aliens; really angsty aliens whose hair and eyes wobble when they feel any emotion rather than having facial expressinos like human beings. That, coupled with the fact that that daft girl's eyes would fall out if she sneezed, drove me away and I hope never to return.

I tried watching the odd fighting anime and they're not much better. In almost every one I've seen, the characters explain, in detail, using flow charts and diagrams where appropriate, what moves they are doing and what the move's effects are. I was hoping for a bit of logic and that the characters might eventually advance beyond the stage of announcing their strategies to the opposition but alas, no such luck.

It often seems badly written, too. Things like logic, common sense and physics have no place in anime. If a joke can be made, it must be made, however corny, obvious and awkward it is. Noobs, if main characters, will always beat super-powerful enemies. Hair is never put out of place, unless rumpled artfully. Boys are the same as girls but they have no boobs.

But I loved Cromartie High School, although it uses and abuses many of the things which I find irritating in other animes, because it hams them up and it does it well.
It also deviates from the ordinary format of almost everything in that it has next to no story arc and each episode is ten minutes long and seems to stop in the middle, just as things are being set up for development and resolution in a second half which never arrives.
The dubbing's not half bad either, which is unusual.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I tried watching the odd fighting anime and they're not much better. In almost every one I've seen, the characters explain, in detail, using flow charts and diagrams where appropriate, what moves they are doing and what the move's effects are. I was hoping for a bit of logic and that the characters might eventually advance beyond the stage of announcing their strategies to the opposition but alas, no such luck.

See, if they ever made a shonen fighting anime where they actually stopped to explain the moves with actual flowcharts and stuff, rather than just boasting verbally about the upcoming ass-whupping like a professional wrestler who's just seen a row of cameras, that would be fucking hilarious.

 

[RufusMcLaser]

Depends what you mean by "Western Comics". Some western comics are significantly better than any anime I've seen, but they're few and far between (Sandman, Pride of Baghdad, Transmetropolitan, Watchmen), and if you'd used one of those as an example, or even comics which are possibly less completely awesome but still fantastic and just as good as the best of anime or manga like Preacher, The Invisibles, Top Ten, LXG, or Runaways (whilst Brian Vaughan was writing it), you'd have had a point. But you didn't. You used Spider-Man.
[one big, long snip]

Here we come back to Sturgeon's Law again, but more importantly, the realization that popular does not equate to good. Your remarkable rant about Spidey- which I absolutely agree with, don't get me wrong- could be retooled to describe plenty of other popular media, including a few anime shows which did stupid, annoying things and still have a fanbase. Evangelion comes to mind. So, to be fair, does The X-Files. And here we come to a common thread in this topic- the willingness of fans to put up with this crap and beg for more. I shouldn't cast stones, it's only now that I look back and see what a transparent sales exercise Infinity Crusade was compared to its predecessors. And I wanted every issue.

 

[crepesack]

i personally dont see anything wrong with anime, i like it the animation is actually better than most american crap but the plot has alot to be questioned there is also one grand theme japense animation and american cartoons have in difference, japense people focus on action and fighting, while americans focus on comedy

 

[klakkat]

/snip quote myself/

I'm a little surprised you think that way about it, considering your end statement about TV not been much different. I mean, if you understand that, what, 80-90% of anything is not going to be quality stuff, then why, why single out one form of presentation media for having the very same factor as your reason for not liking it?

It's baffling, and seems quite a common response if previous posts are any judge.


As for the cartoons for kids crowd. Please shut up. Really:

Cartoons aimed at kids = For kids (durr)

Cartoons in general = Can be aimed at anyone!

I honestly haven't the faintest idea why we want to limit how we have our entertainment. Live action is great and all, but it isn't everything. And the idea that animation is a childish medium is just so damn painful to listen to, and the reason for the dearth of such entertainment in the west beyond the realm of comedy, read South Park, The Simpsons, Monkey Dust etc.

Back to anime. I wonder, does it ever occur to anyone, that without, the big eyes, cultural tics, standardised tropes etc. that huh, it would then cease to be anime, so what...taking into account that a lot, if not most is made for Japanese audiences anyway, are you honestly expecting to homogenise it all to fit your own western standard of how it -should- look?


A thought aswell, as I mentioned above, Western animation where the audience is primarily adult is far a few between, except the comedies. I wonder if it's a little jealousy on the part of some, in the vein of thinking: 'We don't get any serious animation that is for us adults! Wah, anime sucks!' Jokingly of course

You asked why I singled it out? only because that's the topic, and even then, I didn't really. Truth is, you elicit a different response with each of the following statements:

"anime is shit"
"American TV is shit"

The second one no one cares about, even if they like American TV. If you apply the 'most' qualifier to both of those statements, then I firmly believe in them. I cannot deny there is good anime out there, I've been lucky enough to see some of the best. The problem is there are fanboys (and fangirls) that believe anime is some sacred genre that can do no wrong, while American TV attracts no such following. That's the stigma that turns people off anime, and also the thing that annoys me most about the genre.

So I can't say I hate anime. I hate the people who unconditionally love anime, and the way they annoy people that don't watch anime to the point where they all unconditionally hate anime. It creates some very annoying stigma around the whole genre, which also makes it a pain in the ass to find a balanced review about a particular movie or series on whether it's actually good or not. I've watched stuff that came highly recommended by anime lovers only to find it's shit, and found stuff completely obscure and ignored by everyone to find it's fantastic.

It's annoying enough that I've heard anime fanboys condemn Futurama because it's not anime, while another guy condemns it because they think it is anime (neither having watched it). Anime just carries so much bullshit stigma that is now associated with other cartoons as well.

And for the record, Futurama is one of the greatest works of science fiction ever made. Go, buy the entire series, watch it. It's not anime. It is a cartoon. Watch it anyway.

 

[klakkat]

... I realized my post may have sounded a little angry there. For the record, I do like anime. I think specifically I like it because it can depict science-fiction with greater ease and in better detail than live action, and western cartoonists rarely do sci-fi settings.

 

[Booze Zombie]

There are quite a few dis-likable anime shows, just as there are quite a few dislike-able shows in "the west" and any other part of the world. But then, you have to take in to account personal taste.

I mean, I enjoy watching Ed, Edd 'n' Eddy, followed by Cowboy Bebop, followed by Mythbusters, then onto watch various... "videos" on the Internet.

I think it is impossible to actually single out an entire genre as bad. Rather, I think what are really doing is singling out a generation or or sub-style of something as bad.

E.g: Cartoons from 2005 onwards blow chunks. That's not a statement from me, it's an example.

 

[Jark212]

I like it, just not in public... closet otaku talking here

 

[Catballs]

I strongly dislike anime, well manga actually because I don't really think it's even remotely close to any form of unique art.

Err...what? 0_-

I don't really understand the statement. Are you saying in a longer way that, it all looks the same. Or that it doesn't qualify as art because....? If you mean, art as in something to be displayed in a gallery, then no, you're right, it's for the purposes of entertainment, just as western comics are...which, actually aside from the back to front format, sizes, they're basically the same thing -_-

I suppose really the only other difference is the cultural elements, which, quite a few people seem to have trouble getting their heads around.

When I say that it is not art, it is because once you have pencil, paper,a ruler and a rubber anyone can draw it. While this is also true for many western comics, there few are drawn in a very unique way. These exceptions, and classical artwork require a fair bit skill to draw. The only real skill you might need for manga and anime is a good sense of proportions, but the massive cultural difference throws that to the moon.

Art is not soley about drawing/painting skill level, it is about the message it says.

Yes, but one anime/manga picture/video is very similar to the next. Also I have never seen a anime with any sort of smart or meaningful message.

 

[hypothetical fact]

I'm also tired of people praising anime's "realistic" drawings, the characters aren't realistic in the slightest they are stylised. I believe the fundamental difference between anime faces and realistic faces is that anime faces are incapable of having realistic noses. Haven't seen a sing anime character with a nose other than a triangle, a sausage or a monster nose that doesn't fit on the face.

 

[PAGEToap44]

Probably because they believe it tends to foster emotionally and socially immature and stunted man-children?

In short, yes.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

I dislike most anime for the same reason I dislike most sci-fi or superhero comics.

The revolving door heaven eliminates any ability to empathize with the characters. Death is just annoying to these people, it isn't anything real.
"Vash....dead?" = "Picard....dead?" = "Superman....dead?"