Why the big swords anyway?
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As said int he Grand List of Roleplaying Game Cliches...
#19: "Silly Squall, bringing a sword to a gunfight..."
No matter what timeframe the game is set in -- past, present, or future -- the main hero and his antagonist will both use a sword for a weapon. (Therefore, you can identify your antagonist pretty easily right from the start of the game just by looking for the other guy who uses a sword.) These swords will be far more powerful than any gun and often capable of distance attacks.
I suppose things got this way since the hero wielding a sword is iconic. King Arthur pulling the sword from the stone, all the nonsense revolving around the original Masamune, and so on. And this is something that carries through both Eastern and Western mythology so it shows up more than some other cliches.
The real question I have on ranged attacks is where guns fall in all this nonsense. The development of rifling the inside of the barrel (which spins the bullet and makes it more accurate) is very new in the scheme of history. It was around the American Civil War, if memory serves me. So if something is set middle age then a bow and arrow would be more accurate at long range than any kind of gun; the whole reason they worked in historic battles is because with two rows of guys standing there shooting at each other there were a lot of targets for the bullet to stray off and hit. If one guy is shooting at one guy then they'd have to be remarkably close range for a gun to have a shot at hitting the other.
Then of course there's the fact that even modern pistols and handguns would have issues hitting targets as far away as happens in some games. That big bird from FF12 comes to mind. A handgun just doesn't have the barrel length or the velocity to propel the bullet that far on any kind of accurate track, and even if it does hit the speed will be compromised enough that it probably won't do all that much damage. There's a reason why sniper rifles launch their bullets so much faster than a handgun, and also why the barrels are much longer.
I guess than in games where there is magic this can be explained away by 'a wizard did it' with some sort of air resistance canceling spell, but that seems remarkably inefficient and expensive if every round has to be spelled. And if it's a non-magic world then they're just making things up.
SO there is a good reason for the hero to have a melee weapon from that standpoint, at least in some cases.
#19: "Silly Squall, bringing a sword to a gunfight..."
No matter what timeframe the game is set in -- past, present, or future -- the main hero and his antagonist will both use a sword for a weapon. (Therefore, you can identify your antagonist pretty easily right from the start of the game just by looking for the other guy who uses a sword.) These swords will be far more powerful than any gun and often capable of distance attacks.
I suppose things got this way since the hero wielding a sword is iconic. King Arthur pulling the sword from the stone, all the nonsense revolving around the original Masamune, and so on. And this is something that carries through both Eastern and Western mythology so it shows up more than some other cliches.
The real question I have on ranged attacks is where guns fall in all this nonsense. The development of rifling the inside of the barrel (which spins the bullet and makes it more accurate) is very new in the scheme of history. It was around the American Civil War, if memory serves me. So if something is set middle age then a bow and arrow would be more accurate at long range than any kind of gun; the whole reason they worked in historic battles is because with two rows of guys standing there shooting at each other there were a lot of targets for the bullet to stray off and hit. If one guy is shooting at one guy then they'd have to be remarkably close range for a gun to have a shot at hitting the other.
Then of course there's the fact that even modern pistols and handguns would have issues hitting targets as far away as happens in some games. That big bird from FF12 comes to mind. A handgun just doesn't have the barrel length or the velocity to propel the bullet that far on any kind of accurate track, and even if it does hit the speed will be compromised enough that it probably won't do all that much damage. There's a reason why sniper rifles launch their bullets so much faster than a handgun, and also why the barrels are much longer.
I guess than in games where there is magic this can be explained away by 'a wizard did it' with some sort of air resistance canceling spell, but that seems remarkably inefficient and expensive if every round has to be spelled. And if it's a non-magic world then they're just making things up.
SO there is a good reason for the hero to have a melee weapon from that standpoint, at least in some cases.
Ah, k. I couldn't remember since I actually don't play Final Fantasy.s69-5 said:Who, Cloud? Nah, Buster isn't a Gunblade.SilverUchiha said:But doesn't he also have gun-swords? That sort of just adds to our point.s69-5 said:
Squall's is a Gunblade but nowhere near as big as Buster. It's probably a bit smaller than Marcus Fenix's gun...
EDIT: ok, that was harsh. Big swords = looking cool. JRPG's = style = looking cool. They just fit together.
Look, I don't know which part of "unreasonably oversized sword" you don't understand.A1 said:
So what if there was some odd anti-cavalry blade used by some Asian army anno who-gives-a-shit?
I'm talking about weapons that are so huge you shouldn't be able to lift it, and so blunt-looking it may as well have been a piece of metal attached to a stick.
Giant swords, like the ones that frequent JRPG's, were never used. Japanese soldiers had a sword called the Nodachi that was seldom used because it was not that effective. Cavalry was defended against using spears and pikes. The Claymore was pretty much the cream of the crop as far as large swords go.AccursedTheory said:
For me, I actually quit playing JRPG's for two reasons. The 12 year old androgynous amnesiac, and the 13 foot by 2 foot sword.
Because the type of people who think swords are "cool" don't know squat about actual combat (not saying I do, but...) and don't realise that Bigger does not mean Better. That is not a sword, it is a blunt instrument at best and a piece of decorative furniture at worst. It cannot cut so much as crush, and it cannot be lifted. The handle would snap or bend, or the person would burst a vessal trying to lift it
Bunch of amateurs. When will they realise that concealed, razor-sharp daggers are the coolest in fiction? As the wise Sir Terry said:
"The best way to a man's heart is through the stomach...that way, you bypass the ribcage"
Bunch of amateurs. When will they realise that concealed, razor-sharp daggers are the coolest in fiction? As the wise Sir Terry said:
"The best way to a man's heart is through the stomach...that way, you bypass the ribcage"
Notes: The mean what they mean. Report me if you feel the need to, but I meant nothing by it and you know damn well I didn't. You're just sore.A1 said:
To answer your two separate qs (to the best of my Knowledge):
Q: Why excessivley large swords?
A: this has been well explained by several ppl on this forum. Cuz it looks awesome to swing around a sword twice you height, especially if u can do it without looking clumsy AND instead look dexterous and stylish.
Q: why swords at all?
A: OK so here Cloud is not only the most known example, he is also the perfect example. Why is your first battle in FVII controlling one guy with a sword (ridiculously large one, but still) against several soldiers armed with submachine guns? He's gonna die right? Now gameplay mechanics aside (i hit u, u hit me, i hit harder, u die faster, i win!), in most Animes / JRPGS its sort of a given that no matter their background, a sword wielding character is ALWAYS superhumanly fast and strong.
Since this aspect is given to main characters, minor character, protagonist and antagonists, it is important for the protagonists to be able defend themselves against antagonists with superhuman abilities. If your enemy can move from the other side of the battlefield faster than you could get of more than one shot (forget having time to aim), then you are better off using the time it took you to draw your gun to instead draw a sword and prepare to block the attack. Guns are useless in close combat, especially larger ones (rifles etc.), so these character need some melee weapons to counter their superhuman adversaries. Ammo is also an issue, if you cant shoot your enemies before they get too close, there is no way you can hope to stay alive while trying to reload.
On the offensive side, a superhumanly fast character is wasting his potential if he has to take cover and slowly pick off his enemies from afar with a gun like a common grunt. If you can move faster than your enemies can aim, you should be constantly on the move and cutting the down one by one until they are all eliminated (as seen in many Animes JRPGs).
Mind you this explanation is something ive come up with to try to make sense if this stuff myself, it isnt really logical that a guy with limited armour and a sword twice his size can take on fifty guys in full combat gear and assault rifles and come out relatively unscathed. But if u apply "well if you just accept THIS part as the fantasy bit, then THAT can be explained through reason and logic" argument that i enjoy using for Fantasy / SciFi science and logic, then it sortof makes sense why they use swords instead of guns.
Q: Why excessivley large swords?
A: this has been well explained by several ppl on this forum. Cuz it looks awesome to swing around a sword twice you height, especially if u can do it without looking clumsy AND instead look dexterous and stylish.
Q: why swords at all?
A: OK so here Cloud is not only the most known example, he is also the perfect example. Why is your first battle in FVII controlling one guy with a sword (ridiculously large one, but still) against several soldiers armed with submachine guns? He's gonna die right? Now gameplay mechanics aside (i hit u, u hit me, i hit harder, u die faster, i win!), in most Animes / JRPGS its sort of a given that no matter their background, a sword wielding character is ALWAYS superhumanly fast and strong.
Since this aspect is given to main characters, minor character, protagonist and antagonists, it is important for the protagonists to be able defend themselves against antagonists with superhuman abilities. If your enemy can move from the other side of the battlefield faster than you could get of more than one shot (forget having time to aim), then you are better off using the time it took you to draw your gun to instead draw a sword and prepare to block the attack. Guns are useless in close combat, especially larger ones (rifles etc.), so these character need some melee weapons to counter their superhuman adversaries. Ammo is also an issue, if you cant shoot your enemies before they get too close, there is no way you can hope to stay alive while trying to reload.
On the offensive side, a superhumanly fast character is wasting his potential if he has to take cover and slowly pick off his enemies from afar with a gun like a common grunt. If you can move faster than your enemies can aim, you should be constantly on the move and cutting the down one by one until they are all eliminated (as seen in many Animes JRPGs).
Mind you this explanation is something ive come up with to try to make sense if this stuff myself, it isnt really logical that a guy with limited armour and a sword twice his size can take on fifty guys in full combat gear and assault rifles and come out relatively unscathed. But if u apply "well if you just accept THIS part as the fantasy bit, then THAT can be explained through reason and logic" argument that i enjoy using for Fantasy / SciFi science and logic, then it sortof makes sense why they use swords instead of guns.
Yes, indeed I do. But there's something about Swords. Gun's may shoot, but swords...penetrates69-5 said:
I mean, I know bullets penetrate you too, but they tend to fly out the other end or lodge themselves in un-seeable places/
Of course! Funny part is that the author/artist purposely made it huge, for both the battle and just the fact he's meant to be a person that emphasizes awe. Hence why the author always quoted:rekabdarb said:one of the reasons i included it, there was a picture of just dragonslayer, but that's not as noticeable. Plus i thought the caption had something to do with the original topicDarkPanda XIII said:Funny p[art is that when you put Guts in that picture, he's really the only anime guy that can make sense out of big swords. Mostly it shows raw power from the guy who wields it. For Cloud, it means power despite the fact that he's tiny. THough rather unrealistic in my opinion >.>rekabdarb said:Because of the amount of detail you can add to it
Plus swords of this size are more iconic
Guts was built to carry a sword like that. He trained to wield something of that power. Plus it doesn't help that every time you see him do things, you can tell he's unnatural, even from the day he's born >.>
"That thing was too big to be called a sword,
Too Big, Too Thick, and Too Rough,
It was more like a Large Hunk of Iron."
Too Big, Too Thick, and Too Rough,
It was more like a Large Hunk of Iron."
Which was quoted every time a new story began. Just had to say that part because I do love the manga so :3. But anyway, enough fan-basing something and get back to talking a bout swords!
Notice that the people swinging them aroudn are hardly in their teens... they're compensating for lack of mustache... You'd never see mario swing a sword like that.
Or this guy... this guy would pring a butterknife to a gun-fight and still win epicly with a testosteronje blast from his manly beard.
Or this guy... this guy would pring a butterknife to a gun-fight and still win epicly with a testosteronje blast from his manly beard.
Well if you're talking about Cloud it's so that you'd identify him as the close combat, "charge in and kick arse" type. Not that it makes a huge difference considering FF's combat, but if nothing else I think it implies he's the main melee fighter. Tifa has gloves, so as a hand-to-hander she's immediately identified as supporting melee (less health etc). Barret essentially has a Megaman arm, so he's obviously identified as the ranged fighter...
You get the idea.
You get the idea.