Why The Old Republic doesn't grab me.

[Octorok]

Well, it's two months of playtime down the line, and I've come to the conclusion "I never want to play this game. It's just not fun."

But I couldn't figure out why I don't like it. I loved WoW. I played a character up until the mid-seventies and got a little burned out, but I enjoyed my time in Azeroth immensely, and might return to it before the Panda Invasion steps in. So "It's just WoW's gameplay copy/pasted into Star Wars" doesn't seem to cut it. I kind of enjoy the gameplay. It's smooth and pleasing and a tad visceral (for an MMO. It's a touch more involving across the classes than my Hunter ever was.).

"There's no solid endgame". Nope. Not that. I'm not the kind of player who hits the top and stays there, I enjoy leveling new characters and seeing new parts of the world. I'm also not dissatisfied with the number of Flashpoints (raids or dungeons)

"The PvP sucks." Not that either. I'm not a PvPer.

Earlier this evening I realised "Crap. I barely play this game. I don't want to waste my money! I'd better get online and roll up a new character! Yeah, that's what I need to get into the spirit of things!" Ten minutes later, I quit the game. I had absolutely zero drive to even get started, let alone play a character for a 100+ hours.

Could be that when I burned out on WoW, I burned out on MMOs. Could be that my tastes have changed and I'm unable to stick it.

But you know what I think it is? I've been thinking on this for some time, and I've figured out why this game doesn't work - I don't want to be in the game world. I don't want to transfer myself to the lands offered. It simply isn't a pleasant place to be, and I'll try to demonstrate to you what I mean.

Try to bear in mind this problem is far worse in game than in a screenshot, but here's a shot of The Old Republic -

Spoiler

It's just a bland, boring place to run around. And that's not just a particularly ugly room. Out of my quests on Hutta, I spent hours in locations exactly like that. I didn't cherry pick the screenshot, either, I just thought "When I think of TOR's environments, what comes to mind?" and there was my answer.

I tried the same question and applied it to WoW. This is what I ended up with.

Spoiler

Stranglethorn Vale. Running through the jungle at night, my white tiger at my side, rich greens and blues splashed with silvery moonlight.

Spoiler

Oh, or what about this location? Nagrand, with its floating waterfalls and stunning, nebula-filled sky.

Spoiler

Or Ashenvale maybe, the eery, colourful home of the Night Elves?

I'm not being harsh to TOR here, I even got to play on Tython, considered one of the prettier zones in the game.

Spoiler

It still felt completely drab and sterile. It's just lifeless.

See, once I think back on my days of cruising through Azeroth, all these images and locations come running to my mind, countless areas that made me stop and stare, right the way from my start in the Troll village in Durotar to the frozen, crystalline areas of Northrend where I left off.

But when I think of The Old Republic I think of brown and yellow Hutta interiors, or bland, red caves on Korriban, nothing ever special or beautiful, at least in the areas I ever saw in my pretty reasonable attempt to play the game (about 10 or 12 hours on one character, maybe 20 on another)

This is not to say that WoW has no bad areas (playing the Blasted Lands and going straight into Hellfire Peninsula was rough), or that TOR has universally poor art design, it's just a world I'd rather not be in. Possibly you can quantify this with speak of lighting and colour, of shadows and scale, but no matter what, there's my answer (at least) as to the inexplicable feeling at the back of a TOR player's mind "I don't want to play this. I want to be elsewhere."

It's possible that I represent an inconsequential minority, but it's also possible that this has helped (at least a little) to contribute to the vast numbers of people leaving the game. It's simply such a drab place to spend your time.

I don't like to set out a question in a thread, instead liking discussion to come along naturally, but in this case I'd like your opinions - why did you leave The Old Republic? Did this contribute to your dislike of the game?

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I still play ToR, but I defiantely agree with you. Having been to a majority of the game worlds by now (excluding the 4 40+ planets) I can honestly say that I find most of them downright boring. Tatooine was an exercise in trying to finish the place as quickly as possible so I could escape to the next planet. The only planet that I find have some kind of character is Taris and even then it rarely rises above mediocre.

I think part of it is the lack of procedural storytelling. All these enviroments are just there, seemingly just waiting for someone to come along and see them. They don't feel alive because nothing is really happening. This is also why I like Taris, because it is so full of references to KotOR that the landscape seems at least a bit meaningful (seeing the wreck of the Endar Spire was cool). In short, I agree with you about the bland level design of TOR

 

[The_Lost_King]

I just wanted KotOR 3 :_(. Though I will probably try the free trial of this nut it won't be KotOR it will be TOR an mmorpg which isn't Biowares strong suit. Bioware isn't an open world kind of Dev they are half way between CoD and The Elder Scrolls.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I was considering playing TOR, so I looked up what sounded like an interesting mid level raid involving Mandalorians taking over a Republic Cruiser. It ended up looking like a lifeless gunmetal corridor run where Mandalorians attacked with stun batons.

For a franchise where ranged combat is as commonplace as melee, there were very few firefights and far too many idiots attacking Jedi at close range expecting to survive. There was no strategy among the mobs beyond "charge PC's position."

 

[LetalisK]

The issue I have with TOR is it holds your hand too much through the way they created the environments. This isn't necessarily a problem, and I don't even mind it during my first couple characters, but after awhile I get bored of it.

 

[The Madman]

I rather liked the outdoor environments in TOR, it was one of the very few things I did like about the game. That said even at its best it was pretty forgettable and at no point did anything ever really jump out or grab me as many locations in other games have done. The interiors were also especially terrible, with different shades of the same metallic setting being used over and over and over and over when they weren't even good to begin with.

Bleh!

 

[Octorok]

The worst part is, I am this game's target audience. I love RP, I solo in MMOs, I love a good storyline/quest arc. As far as MMO players go, I should love this game.

While it can be fun, and has its moments, the entire galaxy is so utterly boring to be in, all I can think is "I have a dozen other games I could be playing right now. Why am I here?"

 

[Bostur]

It still felt completely drab and sterile. It's just lifeless.

I think thats where a lot of MMOs fall short, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly why that is.

I sometimes blame maze-like world design like in the original Guild Wars or Aion. SWTOR has some areas that feel like mazes and corridors but it's certainly not all of them.

Another aspect is character animation, WoW characters are very expressive with their simple animations. Many MMOs don't have characters, they have quest dispensers and vendor bots. Something as simple as good idle animations can make a big difference.

Respawn speed of mobs probably have an effect too, if mobs respawn too fast the world feels mechanical.

It's probably a combination of things. An MMO world needs a critical mass of well done elements to feel 'alive'. The funny thing is that some of the games that I thought recreated the feeling of a living world wasn't really that good technically. LOTRO and Fallen Earth were examples of this. Rift was probably the game that got closest to the WoW feeling.

 

[9thRequiem]

This thread has reminded me I need to cancel my subscription - haven't played in over 2 months, really don't want to go back. So thanks

For me, it's not the environments. I do agree that by-and-large, they're bland and uninteresting, but personally I can get by that. It's just the quests that annoy me.

 

[Nami nom noms]

I see what you mean, but I'm not sure I agree that it is simply the aesthetics. The worlds do feel quite sterile but for me, it is more due to the lack of interaction with the game world.

In SWTOR there is this sensation of trespassing on someone elses land. You never quite feel like you belong somewhere, and that is probably because story-wise, you don't. Even your ship is usually given (or stolen) and never really feels like home.

I contrast this with SWG (my only other significant MMO experience) and cantinas where full of welcoming people, your house was something you built/earnt/chose and placed whereever your liked, and then decorated how you liked (same goes for the ship).

The point is, Swtor has worlds that belong to the NPC's, good MMO's have places that belong to the players.

 

[krection]

I just wanted KotOR 3

Well the Jedi Knight storyline is essentially KotOR 3. Or at least the closest thing we have to it.

 

[Dimitriov]

For me it was more than that: somehow all the worlds felt completely linear, like a bunch of giant disguised corridors. Of course, often they were just corridors... but every area just felt like a level design. Work your way through the storyline here and then never fucking come back.

It was, as you say, lifeless.

WoW always had relatively organic zones that you could wander in and explore. For example I always remember swimming from Westfall down the coast to Booty Bay in Stranglethorn Vale so that I wouldn't get eaten by tigers and Horde players when I was a low level. Or just running around trying to find a track up a mountain so that I could see what was up there.

Or on my low level Undead characters I would run through the Western plaguelands to try and force a shortcut to Tarren Mill. It was just... fun. Pointless, exploratory fun that made the world feel alive and vibrant, and part of a whole. Not to mention all the crazy random NPC's and named stuff you could just stumble across.

By comparison, TOR just falls completely flat. Everything just feels like a point on a check list as you work your way through a world before you load screen your way to the next one.

 

[The_Lost_King]

I just wanted KotOR 3

Well the Jedi Knight storyline is essentially KotOR 3. Or at least the closest thing we have to it.

No the jedi knight saga takes place after the Return of the Jedi KotOR takes place 1000 years before the prequels.

 

[DaWaffledude]

I just wanted KotOR 3

Well the Jedi Knight storyline is essentially KotOR 3. Or at least the closest thing we have to it.

No the jedi knight saga takes place after the Return of the Jedi KotOR takes place 1000 years before the prequels.

I believe they're reffering to the story of the Jedi Knight class

 

[Irridium]

Might be able to explain why it's lifeless. According to this [http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=16580&cpage=1#comment-290356], this game was primarily developed by contract workers. Meaning a group would work for a year, then get replaced with a new group, and it'd keep on going. And this apparently happened in ALL departments.

So that might explain the lack of a real "style". I still enjoy the game, but still, such a shame.

 

[DanielBrown]

Haven't played SWTOR, so I can't contribute on that, but if you're into immersive and beautiful envieroments, may I tip about LOTRO?

Spoiler

 

[Octorok]

Haven't played SWTOR, so I can't contribute on that, but if you're into immersive and beautiful envieroments, may I tip about LOTRO?

Spoiler

I played and adored LotRO a few years back, before it went Free-2-Play. It slowed way down and got a bit dull for a while, but I was beginning to enjoy myself again just as it hit F2P. First day of F2P I signed in and saw a player named "Titz". On that day, I knew the game and community I loved was gone.

And now I'm sad and nostalgic. LotRO had the best RP realms in the history of MMOs.

 

[Starke]

I just wanted KotOR 3

Well the Jedi Knight storyline is essentially KotOR 3. Or at least the closest thing we have to it.

Aside from being utterly stupid, you know, something the KOTOR games weren't particularly known for.

 

[Mister Six]

I just wanted KotOR 3

Well the Jedi Knight storyline is essentially KotOR 3. Or at least the closest thing we have to it.

Aside from being utterly stupid, you know, something the KOTOR games weren't particularly known for.

It definitely wasn't even close to KotoR 3, but it wasn't exactly utterly stupid. In fact some of the storylines were even quite well done, the Imperial Agent for example, but I still would have preferred KotoR 3.

On-Topic: I found that I actually like most of the planets, excluding Tat., but no one like that shit hole, but they felt too...open, like they were trying to prevent the worlds from being cluttered but ended up leaving them pretty but empty. Plus they were a ***** and half to travel if you hadn't gotten your speeder yet, looking at you Ald.

 

[TallanKhan]

I lost all interest in TOR when i found they had just retconed out pretty much all of KOTOR2 (which despite suffering from serious Obsidian Syndrome, might have been the best star wars game ive ever played)