Why the XBone is a good console

[mKeRix]

So basically your whole counter arguement is "Naaahhhhh they won't do that!" <.<

Not my entire argument, but part of it regarding the licenses. What else is there to say? You can't do much more than trusting them, or anyone. There's a chance that Sony could suddenly discontinue their system by deactivating all their PS3s completely, rendering them unusable even for singleplayer (it's an example) - but we trust them that they won't. It's the same thing here, except that we have digital licenses.

The difference is, if I want, I can go ahead and hook up my Genesis. Get my Dynamite Headdy on. I buy an Xbone, a decade later I won't be able to play anything because they'll drop support for the console and I won't be able to log in.

Something only the future can tell.

If my "license" is my physical medium, I'm cool with that. This copy of Bioshock Infinite to my left here is mine, and I can do with it what I please. If my license is this abstract thing, they can place any sort of restriction they want on that. Don't like that.

They can easily put restrictions to disk copies as well if they wanted to, which just leads us back to trust. And why do we trust them? Because they want their profit and something like that would ruin their image.

Again, this isn't some blind hatred based off of nothing. To ignore the reason why there's so much anger is just as short-sighted, because this discussion goes far beyond which console someone prefers.

Some of it isn't, some of it is. I'm not ignoring anything, but I've been reading a lot of comments and posts over the last days.

1) The main point with this is, YOU DO NOT OWN GAMES. If this gets pushed through, you rent a game for 60 bucks. Hence why the can say "no you can not resell / lend this out" When you buy something, it's yours not the publishers(or retailers) anymore. YOU should be able to decide whether or not you would like to resell it, not some third party.

2)Although they improved it after cowering out of their previous stance on this subject (aka fuck you, you no give game away) It's still BS. Why can't i just mail him the disc, if he lives far away, or let him grab it out of my box if he wants to borrow it. Why do i have to do this complete circus act of jumping through hoops to please the M$ gods?

That's a new business model, and a successful one at that. You can't say it won't work since it already did - Steam, Spotify... It should be yours, but you know yourself that these fees were there before, but from publishers. Now Microsoft just provided an official option, so that it works the same for any game that might enable it.
Apart from that, I think mailing a game is more work and harder than just sending a digital copy.

3) [...]

I don't there's much to comment on this one, I repeated myself about this so many times on this topic because people wouldn't read.
But yes, I meant the cloud servers, since they will be handling everything as far as news goes.

4) [...]

They're not forcing you to buy an XBone, are they? It's the package available right now, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Furthermore, I own a Kinect 1 already and have had a lot of fun with a couple of Kinect games. It works just fine.
And again, for the third time, no, it won't spay on you and you can turn it off completely. Check my second or third post her for an article confirming that.

5) I know fuck all bout the hardware, some say it is about the same. I also saw one guy saying in a post in this thread that the PS4 is 50%more powerfull. I still have to see a single thread of evidence that Cloud Computing works, until that it is just BS.

It's not bs, it's an idea, or a vision. Forza is picking this idea up with their AI database, but that could be just the beginning. The only way to see the full possibilities of this technology is to wait for developers to adapt it once the console is out and old enough.

6)Here they just marketed it wrong, or at least that is their main error. People buy a Xbone for GAMING. Not for TV, not for a dvd player. Gaming.

Nope, a lot of 360 owners used it as an entertainment device especially later on, when Netflix came out as an app. The console is aimed to be liked by casuals, and they did good at that.

7-9) [...]

I never said that the XBox is doing particularly better in any of these.
And no, they didn't lie in their presentations, not a single time.

10) It's not essentially the same, you pay ONE HUNDRED BUCK MORE for the Xbone. What do you get in return? Mandatory circus style hoop jumping, a device that can turn into a brick, a augmentation that is unwanted by most people and more DRM.

No they are not the same, PS4 is a gaming device (SUPPRISE, you are on a gaming website) The Xbone is more suited as a dvd player and dancing games.

Yep, the PS4 is less entertainment orientated and I'm on a gaming website. I knew I was going to get some hate at least, but I do think that this being a gaming website is no excuse for judging a product for partly false rumors.

No matter how you spin it an extra 100 dollars is a big deal. Yes the Xbox 1 comes with camera but if you could give to shits about it it is worth nothing. 100 dollars is a nice chunk of money I can decertify to stuff for my kids come Winter Solstice season.

All the game sharing benefits do not make up for the fact that if I don't connect to the Internet every 24 hour I can't play any games what so ever. The Internet is far from prefect it can and does go down. That is not even taking into account what happens if you have to move change ISP or whatever. This is not a ever pressing issue, but it still annoying that at some point through no fault of your own you will not be able to play game you paid for, not even the one that are not single player games. That's poor form. This will not change no matter how many people complain because that is how Microsoft will be managing used games. You sell your game they will then access your Xbox and erase said game from your hard drive. This is the biggest issue I have with the Xbox 1.

The 24h problem has been discussed thoroughly and we all know that it is a problem, but personally I don't care about it too much thanks to the area I live in. That's another thing that you should decide about.
100 dollars is definitely a lot if you don't need the features - but if you don't need the features, you don't need an XBox One. This consoles has its advantages and disadvantages, so does Sony's PS4 and Nintendo's Wii U, now it's up to you what to choose.

PS+ to play multiplayer ps4 is a little sucky, but even before it had multiplayer rolled in it was one hell of a value. I have half a 500 gig hard drive full of free games and I have not even been paying for PS+ the entire time it has been out. Microsoft has announced it will be doing something similar, but nothing they have said yet leads me to believe it will be comparable in value. Also Sony is not requiring a PS+ Subscription to access 3rd party services like Netflix, which are something you pay for but can't use on Xbox unless you also pay for gold. I always felt that was pretty shitty.

I don't feel like commenting on the PSN once again, but if you have extra time on your hands feel free to read the rest of the thread. To sum it up: both have advantages and disadvantages (what a wonder, haha).

False. The ps4 has 50% more processing power than the xbox one and no amount of cloud magic can change that. Either Microsoft can stream the entire video footage from a game being processed somewhere else or they basically can't do anything

You're right as in this is a little vague to say yet, but you can't really choose either side until both consoles are out (and for cloud computing, old enough). There's a lot of factors influencing this, so yeah.

That's part of the point. It's like if I bought a pc and it came with a full blown, 5 mega pixel webcam that cost $100. That's cool and all, but I don't want it. I like that Sony gives us the choice. Microsoft has no reason to make this thing necessary for the console because we can control it just fine with a controller. Want a kinect? Pay $100 for it and enjoy.

I have a theory for this in my first or second post, but other than that I can't tell you much else about it being useless to you. Some will appreciate it, other's don't.

And the Xbox Gold vs PS+ totally does count. You can't do shit on an xbox without gold. You can't download certain apps like Netflix and you can't even use their freaking Internet Explorer. Microsoft is basically saying "Don't play multiplayer games? Then I hope you like eating shit because you can't play with any of my other toys either. And I still want more money so I hope you like dashboard advertisements. Thanks for your support, bye". Sony does the exact opposite. "You signed up for ps+? Thanks! I hope you like discounts, cloud storage, and free games too!". And I've never had trouble playing multiplayer on my ps3. Maybe now that they're charging for it I'll see some of these improvements xbox users keep talking about

PSN has been discussed enough in previous posts, so I'll just leave it as that:
As far as news goes, both have advantages and disadvantages. It seems like both services are moving closer together feature-wise though.

[I'm done with answering for today, typed too much. Keep your posts coming and discuss though, I'll try to address any unanswered posts again tomorrow.]

 

[Norrdicus]

'But Microsoft can change!'
'He only hurts us because he loves us!'
'Sure I'm still allowed to go see my friends; I just need to let him know where I am at all times and stop and come home as soon as he says.'

Okay, I think I dragged that metaphor on long enough.

Oh I disagree, I like that 3rd line.

Because now I can imagine, if/when the next Hyperdmension Neptunia comes out, the Xbox One will be depicted as stalker/yandere type of character

 

[Dogstile]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

Ever notice how all the defenders have next to no posts? I'm just saying, it seems a little fishy.

 

[Longstreet]

Snip

In the interest of me not ranting on, i'll keep this brief.

First off all, i liked how you countered all my arguments with "said it already" and while i can understand that, from what i have read from you, all your counters are; it won't affect MEEEEEE (Always on) or NAAAAH they won't do that, i trust the big corporations (Kinect)

I'll give you this video as to how well the kinect works.


And yes they did lie, or at least paid to have someone lie for them

With the presentation of TitalFall the director said "TitanFall will be available EXCLUSIVELY for Xbox one and Xbox 360. It is also available on the PC. I call that lying.

 

[Legion]

Okay but see, the thing is, this OP is about 80-ish % defending against (legitimate, often major) concerns about the console, not telling us why it is "good".

The less a console needs to justify its own existence with rhetoric, the better, I say.

I like this response, it cuts through all the arguments people are making.

So most people have a good enough net connection to be able to connect at least once every 24 hours. That doesn't justify why it even needs it in the first place. What benefit does it give us? As far as I see, a lot of these features only benefit Microsoft, so why the hell should anybody be grateful that they aren't worse?

The used game idea for example. Sony and Nintendo have decided to let us do what we can at the moment, so why should we be happy that MS "aren't completely removing it"? Why should we be pleased that they have implanted anti-consumer policies, just because they aren't "too" bad?

It's like somebody punching you in the face, and rather than going "What the fuck?" you go "Well, at least you didn't knock any teeth out."

The simple fact is, that a lot of the things people are complaining about, they didn't "need" to include. Other next gen consoles aren't doing it, but they chose to. If they are not benefiting us, the person buying it, then why should we be happy about it?

So far MS has not given us any reason to be happy about these things. Instead it is having to justify including them in the first place, and as Innegativeion said, the less a company needs to do that, the better.

 

[crimson sickle2]

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

This current wave of, well, straight out hatred for the Xbox One is an overreaction, but it's still damaging. It's depressing seeing users on various forums being bullied just for admitting to planning to buy an Xbox. The gaming community is like a reactionary mob - one opinion and no original thinking. Right now the mob is trending to hatred of Microsoft, tomorrow it'll be trending to hatred of something else, perhaps even Sony when their next inevitably dick-move has happened.

What's worse is the way the parasitic game "journalism" takes advantage to this and writes headlines such as "How Sony defeated Microsoft - the final blow", designed to appeal to the mob (and get hits).

I honestly don't see why you included included that last paragraph on a website that provides game journalism. These are your choices, but calling everyone with the mainstream opinion a mob is pretty insulting.

OT: The reason the Xbone failing miserably is a subject is because it might cause Microsoft to leave the gaming industry. Microsoft is huge and a PC company first, so it won't die from this; however, if the executives or investors see too much lost money, then the Xbone may be the last Xbox.
As for whether it will fail, I'm guessing it will. Currently Microsoft has the console designed for a small userbase, but are still planning for a big userbase. Lately, gamers have been begging developers to create games with niche interests in mind, but Microsoft took it in another direction and singled out only rich people who don't consider losing internet connection.
The excuse of Microsoft planning for the future only explains how they were staring off into the clouds and didn't notice they stepped into the quicksand of their current situation. They first need proper support from consumers before they can make things like cloud gaming actually useful. Personally, I haven't used the 360's cloud at all, because I prefer to maintain accessibility and control over my stuff. For comparison, look at the Wii U, it could have been good, but was released before any games were out for it, and now has developers asking for more consoles sold before they proceed with more games.
Also, the reasoning that many buyers will ignore the problems and buy it anyway is partially true, but should not be applied. There are some that will buy it out of loyalty. However, consumers are intelligent beings asking for a trade of cash for a well-designed product. If a company is disrespectful of this trade or the consumers it will result in consumers refusing further trades with that company. This is usually bad for the company and is currently the path Microsoft is heading.

 

[Laughing Man]

The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

This is where it falls over though. Jim basically summed it up.

To use an XBone you require a TV, a smart TV can be bought for less than the price of an XBone and will do EVERYTHING the Xbone can do except play XBone specific games.

By that measure the one thing that makes the XBone stand out from a smart TV is it's ability to play games and by that measure that should be the ONE thing it does fucking superbly. So the second people have to jump through hoops to play their games the console falls on it's arse and this is before you factor in the cheaper, more powerful PS4 that will more than likely do just as much as the XBone with NONE of the hoop jumping nonsense applied to the gaming side.

The list IS NOT things that are good about the XBone they are just a list of defence of the the piss poor things the XBone is going to do.

 

[Cartographer]

Can't wait for the XBone's version of RROD to take out someone's entire entertainment system this coming generation (and not just their games console), it'll be laugh out loud funny.

As has been said, the OP spends most of his time defending shitty practices instead of offering any advantages; you come across as an M$ employee mate, and as such I choose to treat you in the way they have treated us consumers, by ignoring you from now on.

 

[80sboy]

You know what, I was waiting for this to happen. I call it the underdog complex. When ever people get the sense something or someone is being oppressed or harshly judge, they grow pity and try to take sides with it. Right now Xbone is getting a lot of shit because it deserves it, don't try to defend it because - let's face it - Microsoft is anything but an underdog.

>>

 

[Lightknight]

@mKeRix

It isn't whether or not Microsoft would necessarily do something that's evil. A lot of the DRM nonsense they made available gives all publishers/developers the ability to do those things. So we're not just talking about microsoft, we're talking about every single person they're in bed with and that's a large list of companies. Companies like EA. These are companies who have lately been baffling everyone with their outlandish actions that completely slap customers in the face and say it benefits us.

What's more, it isn't a given that we should trust microsoft. You say it's good business but lately they've been forcing crazy things on consumers that they don't want. They are continually taking away our control and that's not something I'm going to pay more for.

As for the entertainment nonsense. They're trying to solve problems I don't have. I already have a DVR. My DVR records four channels simultaneously and is playable in two rooms of the house. I can also access live TV from my cable provider from any device that is streaming capable. I have absolutely no need, whatsoever, to plug my cable box into anything other than directly into the TV.

I also currently prefer my ps3 for media serfing over the 360. Why? You ask? Because the ps3's dashboard is simple and easy to navigate without clutter. The 360 is gaudy and filled with ads that scream at you if you accidentally hover over them for a second. The PS3 sorts my categories in a more intuitive manner and with less stuff in the way. So my 360 collects dust unless we're hosting a party.

As for exclusives, the ps3 beat the 360 soundly in my opinion. Sony had MANY exclusives but the 360 hand a few large ones. This is largely attributed to the fact that many games available for the 360 are also available on the pc while not being available on the other consoles. However, I have a pc, so it matters to me when one console has less exclusives than another. Sony's upcoming exclusives look incredible. So do the 360's. With both lineups going so well you've either got to pick one system or get both. I'm not the Halo fan that I was in college. So the draws are much more on the ps4 side for me. Oddly enough, the ps4 has more PC/console exclusives than the xbone so far. That's surprising.

The push for using cloud computing to augment the Xbone is an impending wave of always on DRM. Not just always on, but needing the same kind of connection you'd need to play an online shooter will be required to send and recieve the data required for augmented processing. Yay, we're going to get to experience lag in single player games, just what I've always wanted.

The kinect is pushing up the cost and being forced on us. Privacy concerns aside, it should have been our choice.

Every step of the way, Microsoft is putting itself down a peg to its competitors. A little less powerful, a lot less customizeable, a lot less consumer friendly, more greedy, more expensive, more questions and potential problems.

If it were just a few things, then it'd be fine. It's the amalgamation of all of these things. I understand what it's like to see a favorite brand listing into the reef. I saw this with the ps3 and didn't think they'd recover. But I guess it's just Microsoft's turn. I really enjoyed the 360 and all it had to offer as a console. I'll probably buy the xbone around year 4 though. If things settle down.

 

[dmonkoff]

The main problem I see is that in 9-10 years all xbone servers will be shut down, because why the hell not, we need our consumers to buy a new "xbox $".
And the whole generation of games will be gone...

 

[drednoahl]

Hey,
after seeing all the hype around the PS4 and (often even unjust) hate against the XBone I felt like I should post this thread. First of, note that while I'll try to go by facts, I can't be completely objective. I'm fully aware that I'll go against popular opinion with this post, but looking at prior experience with the Escapist forums I hope to find at least a few people who are willing to discuss like proper people and without all the hype.
Now, let's get started. I've been checking different sites over the last few days and have talked to quite a bit of people about the new generation. As Yahtzee already said, you don't have to buy any console, but people feel like they do, so that's what causes these problems. That divides sites into either a PS4 fanbase or an XBone fanbase, because others just don't want to join a thread where people are going wild about the other console.
Let me start off that personally, I think both consoles are good. Both are on par when it comes to technical details and so on, they are just aiming to do different things. And let me note that even if the XBone will fail horribly (more than certain it won't, more about that later), that's not the end of Microsoft. That's just the vocal voices of a few on the internet.
Let's address the main points that people have been criticizing over the last few days:

Right. I don't know which sites you've been checking. Some publishers and developers have already said that the PS4 is more powerful than the xbone for games.

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

Microsoft and some publishers are trying to kill retail - they want direct access to market to you because it's cheaper and possibly more profitable than advertising (expect sites like this one to die if this takes off.) Steam to a certain extent does this too, but I have a choice to use another service or retailer. Sony on the other hand wants to keep retail alive and understands that game retailers have been struggling. The reason that used games are pushed by game retailers so much is that new games are near enough unprofitable regardless of what platform. Sony wants to keep what we have now - a system that gamers like. Microsoft want to change the system to one more profitable to publishers, Microsoft and their "retail partners," which kills any independent game retailers not on the program and given Microsoft's history of online sales means more expensive for gamers.

You want EA being EA? http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-12-ea-backs-away-from-retail-in-favour-of-arpu business as usual

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

You can't rent a game on xbone. Look, console gaming to me has always been insert game and play - it's that simple. Microsofts method is insert game, log on to server - authenticate, check they guy waning to play is the same guy who owns the account using the kinect, install game, accept a rights violating EULA, then play the game. I ask you - which is worse?

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

There is no option to opt out of this and you can't take your console anywhere you want. One of the benefits of console gaming is it's really quite mobile and up until now you could take one anywhere and play your games AS YOU WANT. So this to me says that even if I bought a xbone it would never truly belong to me.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

The only thing that was confirmed actually was that you could turn the xbone off with the kinect. What has been confirmed is that kinect is necessary for the xbone to function at all times. Most gamers I know would have liked a choice and I would expect bitching about it until Microsoft issue details of the privacy policy and settings.

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

Watch the E3 press conferences again - xbone did not perform as well as PS4 and I found the evidence of that quite compelling. PS4 is a more powerful machine and it's been confirmed by numerous sources (including Ubisofts CEO) and the xbone will have to keep the kinect up and running which I expect will reduce performance too (if only slightly.)

6. Features:
The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

My TV, PC, laptop all do these things without having to pay a subscription for it. I'm totally the opposite of you here because I demand full control of how my devices work and once you pool all these things together you lose that control and hand it to the manufacturer. Plus I got rid of my 360 as soon as the spam started - it's a barrier to me to play games.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

I'm told they're both really good and both are far superior to the 360 pad.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

Being honest, I think the xbone looks cheap and a bit tacky to me but that wouldn't concern me as I usually hide my consoles behind the TV.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

When you consider how similar both these consoles are at their core I doubt there will be many exclusives from third parties. However, with indy studios not being as restricted on the PS4 as they are and have been with Microsoft I think it's more likely that that the PS4 will win here for the foreseeable future. I don't think it's wise commenting on the AAA exclusives for both machines yet since they've not all been announced.

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

If your going to compare the pricepoints as equal then you have to admit that PS4s online services come free. Gold is more expensive, more restrictive and not as rewarding as PS+ so the longer you factor in the time you'd be subscribed the bigger the difference in cost becomes. I don't need or want kinect, and thankfully Sony are giving me the choice that I require.

Now, as you can see, both consoles are not too different. They are both good. They are selling well, and none of them has any big advnatge. The amount of pre-orders is basically the same for both (according to Amazon). This is still early in the "war", so we can only see how it ends once both are out for a while. The XBone will grab a lot of the casuals, while the PS4 currently is mostly bought by "hardcore gamers" as you could say. It's a choice of target group that can go either way. Apart from that, nothing is set in stone yet, we still have a couple of months to go. So, a plea of mine, if you see any of these ridiculous fan circle jerks, don't join them. You can decide what you want to buy, and you can tell anyone why you'd want to buy it, but we don't need another post about how great one console is. It changes nothing if you say Microsoft is doomed a thousand times, look at SimCity - everyone said they're not going to buy it, but it still sold well. The people on forums don't make up the largest amount of buyers.
Both consoles are good. And please don't forget that no company is an angel, they all don't know you and need to make profit, that's how it works. We've seen that often enough in the past.
Okay, this rounds up all the things I wanted to comment on (if I didn't forget anything). I'm open to discuss anything on this topic with you, if you deliver valid arguments.

I went to a game retailer this morning and they are aggressively pushing for PS4 or WiiU, and were advising customers that the xbone would be a terrible purchase as a consumer. There was a single bit of A4 stuck on a door announcing they were taking xbone preorders while PS4 announces were stuck all over the place. I asked the manager about what he thought of the xbone and he said they're considering pushing PS3s on gamers now telling folk to get their playstation gamer scores up so they don't have a noob score when they change to PS4 (I nearly bought a PS3 too.)

How many mothers have you seen asking for advise on gaming and consoles from gaming retailers? I've seen lots and lots over the years and those mothers are being advised from what I've seen to buy either Nintendo or Sony. Of course I doubt that my local store has the same policies as the entire world, but I doubt that the xbone is going to be on many peoples Christmas lists while it is surrounded by so much negativity.

I totally agree that as a consumer I should buy what I want, but let's say I buy an xbone and don't like it. Can I sell my xbone or is it a ball and chain with a one time only activation - this is not clear but I think highly likely to be a ball and chain. I can pre-order a PS4 today safe in the knowledge that if I hate the PS4 I could sell it without any concerns as I require to whomever I want.

The xbone probably will sell, but if does and you buy one expect ddos and hacking to become an issue. Having just spent a weekend where I couldn't play a game I'd paid to play due to hackers, anyone who goes through this will have my sympathy. Microsoft have made good reasons for hackers to risk the attempt - potentially financially rewarding reasons that I find deeply disturbing. I'm worried about hacking with Sony too, but nowhere near as much.

I totally disagree with you saying that both consoles are good. The Xbox one is the worst console I've seen released since the 3DO (and I do own one of those and it's rubbish but probably better than xbone imo)

Long post is long sorry, but the xbone is a dead horse that needs flogging.

 

[TomWiley]

Oh, so if the opinion doesn't agree with yours, then its not worth hearing? As if what you have to say, the brushing off of opposing opinion by claiming they're nothing more than the biased, knee-jerk reactions of the mob, isn't entirely myopic in and of itself.

I'm not saying the opinion isn't valid, but I am saying that the entire situation is a ridiculous, self-generating overreaction. When a thread about some bloody hardware have people genuinely upset, things have gone overboard.

All of Microsoft supposed restrictions have been greatly exaggerated, and this whole Kinect-spying thing is just completely false. And rather than questioning how valid our collective hatred really is, everyone are just affirming their own unfounded opinion by hearing from other people with the exactly same opinion. Doesn't it annoy people, writing the exact same thing that 50 other comments have already declared in the same thread?

As a PC player, I couldn't care less which console that wins, but there is something about this mob-like herd-mentality that annoys me. So yeah, seeing threads like this which asks people to essentially calm down and objectively revalue their opinions about something controversial is very refreshing.

 

[Lightknight]

You know what, I was waiting for this to happen. I call it the underdog complex. When ever people get the sense something or someone is being oppressed or harshly judge, they grow pity and try to take sides with it. Right now Xbone is getting a lot of shit because it deserves it, don't try to defend it because - let's face it - Microsoft is anything but an underdog.

>>

I am surprised we haven't seen dissention in larger and more violent numbers earlier. I'm not saying that the OP is guilty of any of this but in the past we've had a lot more dissension on the consoles. The whole "fanboy" wars of this past console gen. I would have thought the allegiances would continue but I've been fairly amazed with nearly universal criticism of Microsoft's actions here.

Perhaps the previous war-like mentality will return once people own the thing? Or maybe the actions are bad enough for even the stalwart to see the problem. That's significant if so.

Again, I'm not saying the OP is a fanboy or anything along those lines. I don't care. I'm just making a comment about a higher social interaction on the subject. If there is a much larger culteral trend at hand then we could be witnessing significant corporate history.

The main problem I see is that in 9-10 years all xbone servers will be shut down, because why the hell not, we need our consumers to buy a new "xbox $".
And the whole generation of games will be gone...

Yes, we are facing an even bigger hurdle here than ever before where saving games for posterity is concerned.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Hey,
after seeing all the hype around the PS4 and (often even unjust) hate against the XBone I felt like I should post this thread. First of, note that while I'll try to go by facts, I can't be completely objective. I'm fully aware that I'll go against popular opinion with this post, but looking at prior experience with the Escapist forums I hope to find at least a few people who are willing to discuss like proper people and without all the hype.
Now, let's get started. I've been checking different sites over the last few days and have talked to quite a bit of people about the new generation. As Yahtzee already said, you don't have to buy any console, but people feel like they do, so that's what causes these problems. That divides sites into either a PS4 fanbase or an XBone fanbase, because others just don't want to join a thread where people are going wild about the other console.
Let me start off that personally, I think both consoles are good. Both are on par when it comes to technical details and so on, they are just aiming to do different things. And let me note that even if the XBone will fail horribly (more than certain it won't, more about that later), that's not the end of Microsoft. That's just the vocal voices of a few on the internet.
Let's address the main points that people have been criticizing over the last few days:

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

UPDATE: Mixed this up a little bit, but thankfully [user]9thRequiem[/user] clarified it:

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

6. Features:
The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

Now, as you can see, both consoles are not too different. They are both good. They are selling well, and none of them has any big advnatge. The amount of pre-orders is basically the same for both (according to Amazon). This is still early in the "war", so we can only see how it ends once both are out for a while. The XBone will grab a lot of the casuals, while the PS4 currently is mostly bought by "hardcore gamers" as you could say. It's a choice of target group that can go either way. Apart from that, nothing is set in stone yet, we still have a couple of months to go. So, a plea of mine, if you see any of these ridiculous fan circle jerks, don't join them. You can decide what you want to buy, and you can tell anyone why you'd want to buy it, but we don't need another post about how great one console is. It changes nothing if you say Microsoft is doomed a thousand times, look at SimCity - everyone said they're not going to buy it, but it still sold well. The people on forums don't make up the largest amount of buyers.
Both consoles are good. And please don't forget that no company is an angel, they all don't know you and need to make profit, that's how it works. We've seen that often enough in the past.
Okay, this rounds up all the things I wanted to comment on (if I didn't forget anything). I'm open to discuss anything on this topic with you, if you deliver valid arguments.

I'm with ya, buddy. I have already preordered mine. Just be prepared for some venom as its alot of that going around right now. I have been accused of being a microsoft employee, and of a person that is going to ruin games for gamers by purchasing an Xbox One. I'm not kidding.

 

[Bundyclan]

Well, I'd have gone with xbone but then got the news: Xbox Live at the release will be available for 20 countries and mine is not one of them. And not sure why they will "fix" it. Well guess it's ps4 then.

 

[Requiem191]

Oh, so if the opinion doesn't agree with yours, then its not worth hearing? As if what you have to say, the brushing off of opposing opinion by claiming they're nothing more than the biased, knee-jerk reactions of the mob, isn't entirely myopic in and of itself.

I'm not saying the opinion isn't valid, but I am saying that the entire situation is a ridiculous, self-generating overreaction. When a thread about some bloody hardware have people genuinely upset, things have gone overboard.

All of Microsoft supposed restrictions have been greatly exaggerated, and this whole Kinect-spying thing is just completely false. And rather than questioning how valid our collective hatred really is, everyone are just affirming their own unfounded opinion by hearing from other people with the exactly same opinion. Doesn't it annoy people, writing the exact same thing that 50 other comments have already declared in the same thread?

As a PC player, I couldn't care less which console that wins, but there is something about this mob-like herd-mentality that annoys me. So yeah, seeing threads like this which asks people to essentially calm down and objectively revalue their opinions about something controversial is very refreshing.

I've gone over my own personal opinion about this situation numerous times by myself and through discussion with friends on other sites and IRL.

To set up my position, let me just say that I loved the 360. I loved, loved, loved it. I still have my second 360 hanging out in my living room currently and I hope to have it for a long time coming. It's a great console that is focused on playing games and Xbox Live I feel gives me a lot for my money (though, true, I do think ads and what not are kinda silly, but they were never very obtrusive or in my face, so I made do). The 360 was a game console that did everything right while the PS3 did everything wrong for quite some time (as in they overloaded it with so much fluff that inflated the price which prevented me from buying it, at least at launch). So keep that in mind, I loved the 360 and didn't understand how Sony could make the mistakes it did with the PS3.

Now we're here with the Xbox One and the PS4. I should, as a self-professed fanboy of the Xbox, be defending the Xbox One tooth and nail. I should be lifting up the admittedly pretty great tethering machine the Xbox One is since the idea itself of being able to actually have one unified entertainment center is just cool (I like that at least, I'll admit, it's a neat feature). However, I'm not doing any of this. I'm simply not willing to defend the One. Why is this?

I've never been one to fight in the console wars. I was always happy playing my console games along with my PC games and letting everyone else fight their silly little "war". I didn't need to get involved because there was no reason for me to. However, the console "war" has gone up a notch with the announcements we've gotten involving the One and the PS4. It's no longer a war between two consoles and which one is "better" (spoiler alert: neither were/are better, they both had/have their own pros and cons), it's now an unfortunate public backlash between, well, the public and Microsoft while Sony does what any corporate giant would do and takes full advantage of the situation to go straight for Microsoft's jugular vein.

The PS4 is a powerful machine that essentially plays games and happens to mainly just be an upgrade from the PS3. It has some bad things going on with it, but that's to be expected, this is Sony we're talking about.

The Xbox One on the other hand has a decent amount of good things going for it that are absolutely being pushed to the side because, yes, Microsoft screwed up massively. I'm an Xbox Fanboy and I can readily admit that the company I wanted to win this whole thing (mainly because I just wouldn't have wanted to switch consoles) is failing miserably on many fronts. 1. They made the wrong move with adding in this DRM laden policies that don't really help anyone. 2. They failed to explain why they implemented these policies in a way that would be easier to swallow for the public. They simply failed on presenting themselves. They gave us a terrible, terrible first impression and are now facing the consequences because of it. 3. And finally, they didn't market themselves well. It's just that simple. They've got executives like the President of Interactive Entertainment going around saying stupid things that become headline news in the gaming media. They are killing themselves with these little mistakes here and there while also going out of their way to fail miserably at selling the public the idea of what the Xbox One can do.

That's basically what it all boils down to. I fully believe that the Xbox One would have won E3 and the start the next gen if Microsoft had made clear and sweeping changes to their platform, but they failed to do so. Because of this, Sony is able to come in and mop up all of E3, soaking in all of the good publicity by simply not doing anything special. All they did was announce a powerful console, tell everyone things are basically gonna be the same as they are in the current/last gen and that the console is cheaper than the other obstruction filled console. That's all Sony had to do to win. They simply had to not be Microsoft.

So no, this isn't just a mob mentality drawing all of the Microsoft haters and sheep who can't handle having their own opinion. This movement of "hate" against Microsoft is happening for reasons. Stuff like this doesn't happen on such a widespread scale because "it just does." Mob mentality doesn't explain why everyone is acting the way they are. It simply doesn't. Microsoft failed to market themselves correctly and made horrible mistakes and are now suffering the consequences. You can blame that on mob mentality all you like, but it doesn't change the facts as they are. I'm not even telling you Sony is great or anything, I'm just stating as an Xbox fanboy that the Xbox One failed miserably at the reveal conference and at E3. Only the games are helping keep it in the fight, imho.