The main problem with Britains' aircraft capabilities is we have no aircraft carriers, although I heard something about us sharing with France, but thats quite frankly pathetic. I read a link from a previous thread which talked about the F-22 's stealth capabilities, and an RAF pilot in a Eurofighter went up against the F-22 in a friendly wargame, he said with the newest stealth it was absolutley impossible to get a lock on the thing to fire at it, even when he could physically see it. The USA's stealth tech is currently number 1 in the world, but Russia and China are not far behind.
The problem is working out what we want our aircraft to do. Do we need a fighter, when the countries with airforces that are a threat are very unlikely to attack us? Do we need separate bombers, at around £150 million more per plane or is it better to combine the two rolls, lose some manoverability and speed for a slighty bigger arsenal and range, and a massive saving in money.
The biggest threat to our military today is the economic consequences of it, is it wise to put all our money into funding a plane that will preform marginally better than the ones we already have, for situations that are for now purely hypothetical, or invest that money in our country to keep businesses afloat and fund councils. This is why the Ark Royal and F-22 was decommissioned,
The US, we usually tend to have air superiority in our wars. WWI was fairly balanced in the air, but we were using French planes. WWII and on, we have used our own tech to pwn all. From the P-51 Mustang, to the F4 in Vietnam, to the F-16, and now the F-22.
You may wanna spoiler tag those. Saves space.
Qutoe me to see what I did (if you don't know), Press Edit below your post and change the pictures to this:
OT:
Dark Knifer said:
How about we stick them in video games and see what happens instead? That way everyone can have a go with zero consequence.
What this man said AKA Go buy HAWX 2. or if it doesn't have those planes wait for the third.
The reason being that if there IS a war (which quick-tip: people are kindaagainst, on this site) you wouldn't SEE any of the dogfights or shit. so you'd have no way of knowing which is better anyway. compare that with the dramatized trailers of HAWX 2 where there are planes fighting every 5 inches. Wouldn't you rather see that?
Wait the HMS Ark Royale is being decommissioned? Why? Oh well. I, for some arbitrary reason, trust the British government more than the American when it comes to using fancy toys to dick-measure.
The US, we usually tend to have air superiority in our wars. WWI was fairly balanced in the air, but we were using French planes. WWII and on, we have used our own tech to pwn all. From the P-51 Mustang, to the F4 in Vietnam, to the F-16, and now the F-22.
This, if we hadn't bombed the ever living fuck out of their factories, or if they had a few extra months to build/develop, they would have swamped us in technologically superior armament.
I don't believe you actually want a war to start (I'm at least hoping) and I imagine you just think this is a charming or witty way to frame your pose.
It's not.
There is absolutely nothing funny or cute about this suggestion. War kills people. Regardless of where you stand on the issue of it being possible to justify war, war should never be desirable for its own sake. I understand that people like to geek out over weapons, aircraft, et cetera, but ideally that takes the form of interest in the equipment itself, not in seeing it put to use killing people.
this is why i still say the Euro-fighter, F15, etc... are better in todays world as most people you are going to be shooting will be in a cave so a air superiority fighter is useless.
few notes on the f22 and Euro-fighter:
In stealth mode the f22 is more stealthy, but as soon as it turns on its radar the Euro-fighter is harder to lock on (smaller in size and heat sig)
quote from lead engineer on the f22 "vulnerable to rain"
The vulnerability is not actually going to damage the system, it just temporarily dampens the radar suppression capabilities of the aircraft.
As for the Radar system, the system that was originally designed for the F-22 and is only being put in US model F-35 systems is what allows the F-22 and F-35 to fly with active radar in stealth mode. Analog radar display systems tend to have visual glitches, which are ignored by the radar operator. Digital radar systems typically filter out the glitches, which means they are ignored.
As for both China and Russia I will say this. They make scary looking aircraft. Russia is REALLY good at making aircraft that look tough and perform well below US standards. We haven't gotten much info from China, but this new aircraft of theirs seems to be missing quite a bit of the form, fit, and function of the F-22 and F-35. One of the biggest things that's missing is a heat signature dampener from the exhaust, plus it's more rounded than an F-22. Militarily, the US is making superior aircraft.
Financially though, we are losing, and the new MAD has nothing to do with H-bombs.
I don't believe you actually want a war to start (I'm at least hoping) and I imagine you just think this is a charming or witty way to frame your pose.
It's not.
There is absolutely nothing funny or cute about this suggestion. War kills people. Regardless of where you stand on the issue of it being possible to justify war, war should never be desirable for its own sake. I understand that people like to geek out over weapons, aircraft, et cetera, but ideally that takes the form of interest in the equipment itself, not in seeing it put to use killing people.
Mine as well. Dick fencing by countries showing off their toys while tens of thousands (if not millions) of soldiers die senseless deaths? We need less fancy military hardware, not more.
I don't believe you actually want a war to start (I'm at least hoping) and I imagine you just think this is a charming or witty way to frame your pose.
It's not.
There is absolutely nothing funny or cute about this suggestion. War kills people. Regardless of where you stand on the issue of it being possible to justify war, war should never be desirable for its own sake. I understand that people like to geek out over weapons, aircraft, et cetera, but ideally that takes the form of interest in the equipment itself, not in seeing it put to use killing people.
Killing each other is bad business.
But, I think it is a bit silly to speculate on the performance of any of these aircraft against another one unless someone is an aerospace engineer, or technician with intimate knowledge of them all.
I don't believe you actually want a war to start (I'm at least hoping) and I imagine you just think this is a charming or witty way to frame your pose.
It's not.
There is absolutely nothing funny or cute about this suggestion. War kills people. Regardless of where you stand on the issue of it being possible to justify war, war should never be desirable for its own sake. I understand that people like to geek out over weapons, aircraft, et cetera, but ideally that takes the form of interest in the equipment itself, not in seeing it put to use killing people.
With regards to the J20, have you paid close attention to the engines? There's absolutely no attempt to give them a stealth profile at the exit points. Look at the back end of an F-117A or Raptor, they're seriously styled to reduce the radar cross-section even more.
The J20 has ordinary engines.......two giant great glowing targets. It's an OK effort, but they can do better!
EDIT: Just though I'd mention, as I'm quite proud of it, that I took that shot of the typhoon above. Two days in Wales, waiting!
I noticed the J-20's exhaust as well - needs work. But it's still just a prototype airframe, maybe they could blend the profile like the F-35 does. We just have to wait and see... for probably at least another 10 years. Oh, and kudos on that shot of the Typhoon! How the hell didya take it? Definitely worth the 2 day wait (it's currently my wallpaper - the Typhoon is my favorite delta-wing fighter, looks real dramatic with the full payload!)
vxicepickxv said:
As for both China and Russia I will say this. They make scary looking aircraft. Russia is REALLY good at making aircraft that look tough and perform well below US standards. We haven't gotten much info from China, but this new aircraft of theirs seems to be missing quite a bit of the form, fit, and function of the F-22 and F-35. One of the biggest things that's missing is a heat signature dampener from the exhaust, plus it's more rounded than an F-22. Militarily, the US is making superior aircraft.
Financially though, we are losing, and the new MAD has nothing to do with H-bombs.
Umm, you might want to look at the war games that India hosted a couple of years back. Sukhoi Su-30s and MiG-21s regularly cleaned the clocks of F-16s and F-15s, and the Su-27 variants are kinematically far more superior than any 4th generation fighters. F-22s changed the game, but we've yet to see what the T50 has to offer. As for stealth, like I already mentioned, the T50 is being equipped with IR scanners (which the F22 was supposed to get, but was cancelled due to budget constraints) - so they wouldn't only scan for radar signatures, but also heat signatures (a major aspect, as the F-35 lacks supercruise). Also, only the F35 will be produced in any meaningful number to be tactically viable, as the F22 has been axed. I wouldn't underestimate the Russians. As for finances: yes. You better stop the Chamber of Commerce from shipping all your jobs over to China.
Redlin5 said:
I don't think that fancy fighters are a good excuse for war.
]I don't believe you actually want a war to start (I'm at least hoping) and I imagine you just think this is a charming or witty way to frame your pose.
It's not.
There is absolutely nothing funny or cute about this suggestion. War kills people. Regardless of where you stand on the issue of it being possible to justify war, war should never be desirable for its own sake. I understand that people like to geek out over weapons, aircraft, et cetera, but ideally that takes the form of interest in the equipment itself, not in seeing it put to use killing people.
Mine as well. Dick fencing by countries showing off their toys while tens of thousands (if not millions) of soldiers die senseless deaths? We need less fancy military hardware, not more.
First of all, let me clear something. I'm happy that all these aircrafts are being made. Okay, not happy, but positively delighted. Because it simply means that there is no single military hegemony. Any country that can acquire one of these cheaper T50s or J20s will be able to upgrade their air force. Any super-power (be it USA or China) who might gain something by attacking said nation will think twice before making any progression. What if an undetected fighter/interceptor takes out an AWAC or ECM aircraft, crippling their capabilities? What if a stealth fighter launches an anti-ship missile and deals major damage to their flotilla? What if, as a counter-attack, one their own strategic bases are hit? In short, it gives everyone (who can afford the dough) a fighting chance - unlike the situation, say, back in Vietnam, when Vietnamese second generation fighters had to fight off American third generation fighters (the F-4 Phantoms were using heat-seeking missiles, whereas the MiG-21s mostly only had guns). What you might call a dick-waggling contest (I personally call it a pissing contest) is called a deterrence by others. When everyone gets fancy hardware, it raises the stakes, and war becomes more of a last-ditch efort. I admit it's not perfect, but it's all the world has got.
And for The Spaghetti Monster's sake, when someone says "We really need an all out war right now to see who wins!" and ends it with this- you seriously need to consider whether s/he is serious. I mean, let's try to convey a serious message with that emoticon at the end:
"Boss, I just accidentally killed the two orphans who were the only people capable of saving the entire world from the armageddon that is going to initiate in about 2 minutes... ... ... "
See? DOES. NOT. WORK.
And since when did war become a touchy subject, considering we are surrounded by it? And since when was war, despite its terrible consequences, never subject to humor?
Here, I'll have a stab at it.
"What did Winston Churchill do right after WW2? Why, he decided to launch Operation Unthinkable. Which was basically attacking the Soviet Union."
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