CriticKitten said:
What part of "Both PS2 and Wii sold well post-2005 because both were low price, low abilityand for SDTV televisions?" don't you understand?
Wii got only a slight edge from the Wii-peripheral that is mainly a gimmick targeting towards casual audience. FPS games SUCK with Wii-controls even compared to gamepad.
What "some guy" says about a wikipedia article isn't credible. Though your "source" is illustrative of my point as it lists the processing power stats of Wii as far infarior of PS3 and 360 and ANY desktop PC built since 2005 and near idenical in power to a gamecube or Original Xbox. These generations are MARKETING only. The HARDWARE GENERATIONS (I have to use block capitals or you will skip over the words you don't like) are distinct. Wii is not in the same Hardware Generation as PS3 and 360.
PS2's sales are entirely relevant to the point at hand because Wii is properly categorised as a 6th gen console like the PS2 in terms of hardware capability... which IS WHAT MATTERS! Marketing BS of "wii is 7th generation because it was launched after the 360" is facile. I could release an 8 bit console in 2008 and it could be defined as "7th generation" because it was released after the Xbox 360. The hardware capability must be on parity.
It is insulting to say "no educated intelligent individual" would conclude wii was a gamecube relaunch. The internals are so similar that gamecube emulators can emulate wii games. Stop squirming out of this.
You can't seriously say new peripherals make a new generation without concluding Kinect on 360 is next generation. 360 has also had multiple software upgrades to the operating system, that doesn't make it an 8th generation console.
I don't like either console, I prefer PC gaming. Which is TRULY a whole generation ahead of xbox 360 and PS3.
but PS2 also did well for the more casual gamers while Wii leaned more toward the casual non-gamers.
....okay, you have no clue what you're talking about. The PS2 went for "casual gamers" and the Wii went for "casual non-gamers"?
I obviously meant vice-versa. If fits with everything else I said. This is an innocent mistake. But you are not considering my argument, you are practising apologetics.
Oh nintendo may
TRY to sell wii to casuals but it doesn't stand a freaking chance. People gave wii-fit a chance when it was half the price of the competition, but not when the base system is no less than $300 compared to Kinect that has full body tracking fitness games, something that Wii implied but never actually delivered.
Why would any casual be anamoured with an HUGE controller with a 1990's era touchscreen in the middle? Kinect dance games. Wii can't compete with that.
Kinect is pretty original. Nintendo never did whole body tracking. Nintendo can't own the very "idea" of a fitness video game!!! And dance central and all those other Kinect games. I don't give a crap about them but you cannot deny their mainstream casual appeal that Wii once cornered the market in.
Microsoft's well supported media serviced and a DVD player that can actually play movies, also the Playstatio n3 playing Blu-rays and support from its huge SOny Movie Holdings and Sony Music.
Which apparently aren't things that the casual market cares about, otherwise they would have bought a 360 or PS3 back then.
What?!? You mean the mainstream don't want Movies, Music and TV shows?!? No, they do. The reason they didn't buy an Xbox back in 2005 was becauce it was $400, now it is $200, while the WiiU WITHOUT any DVD capability and poor precendent with media services will be £280 in the UK and considerably more than $300 in US.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352500/iwata-signals-wii-u-will-cost-more-than-250pound163-report/
PS2 sold gangbusters because it was also a DVD player. Playstation magazines started having a DVD movie section. People don't drop hundreds of dollars on a system to "just do one thing" that's not how people justify purchases. iPhone is an everything-device and sold very well for it.
iPhones and iPads are NOT going to stream HD movies and on-demand premium-TV shows to your HDTV. Xbox 360 will. This is great for people on alternate cable packages who want to buy other cable shows or to "cut the cord" entirely.
Wii appeared for being low cost.
What. That's not even English.
It's an obvious typo, that I meant "appealed".
Is this your argument? Attack minor spelling flubs rather than the actual argument? I don't work for a magazine with a proof reading editor and stuff like this gets missed in a cursosry self proofread. I've got dyslexia, I don't catch spelling mistakes when it is a mistake into another dictionary word. Are you going to attack me for my dyslexia now? Are you just a petty bully?
No it IS circular logic to say "people were wrong about 3DS, therefore no matter the substance of their arguments they are wrong about WiiU"
You can't be a delialist for everything I say yet say I am the one with no understanding.
No I understand the key to Wii's success:
-Low power, undercut the competition in price = WiiU parity of power with 360 = 360 is less expensive
-Novel interface = WiiU controller - can't compete with 360 gamepad + kinect
WiiU is cleaiming to be the "arguably superior product" this time!
Brand Loyalty doesn't mean ANYTHING! The same market that gobbled up the Wii didn't give a crap about the Gamecube. And why have Wii sales tanked suddenly after kinect heot the scenes and 360 dropped to $200? That's not brand loyalty. You are banking everything on EVERYONE handing over all their money for what they know they won't like.
It had a simple intuitive controller.
No it didn't, it had a flipping remote control design that looked nothing like the previous several Nintendo consoles.
Um, that "remote" is VERY intuitive to a casual audience as they are all used to remove controls. They all use remote controls and play tennis games intuitively by hitting ball with flick of the wrist, not press of a button. But Kinect has that market cornered now with intuitive body tracking for fitness regimes, dancing, dodgeball, etc
3DS didn't start selling till a huge price cut. People rightly predicted it wouldn't sell well at THAT price. But 3DS COULD be cut down in price to make a loss per hardware that they did not want to make.
WiiU Still has to catch up with almost 67 MILLION console sales for Xbox 360 and similar for PS3. You cannot assume a new HD-home console costing much more than the competition with less features and less library will sell as well as a $160 handheld.
Oh SOMEONE will buy the WiiU. Not many. You cannot dismiss any suggestion that WiiU will sell well because PSV and 3DS sold well to spite some predicting otherwise. You will notice the PSV still has no where NEAR the market penetration as app-enabled smartphones which was the point people were making. You cannot say the WiiU won't flop simply because no console has flopped since 2005, it has happened in history to consoles far more deserving of success.
Why would Wii owners buy a $300 WiiU with hardly any new games to play rather than buy a PS3 or Xbox 360 and have HUNDREDS of new games to play!!?!
Because they didn't want a PS3 or 360, obviously.
You're thinking much too hard about this.
I don't think YOU are thinking hard enough.
Me: "Why won't they get a 360 or PS3"
You: "because they don't want a 360 or PS3"
Me: "that's not a 'why', that's circular logic"
Consumers DO think! Do you REALLY think millions of people will buy the WiiU over Xbox 360 to spite it being:
-just as powerful
-more expensive
-with less features
-Smaller online community for multiplayer games
-less advanced casual-market control (full body tracking kinect vs WiiU's late 1990's touchpad)
ALL ENTIRELY out of brand loyalty to Nintnedo.
"Neither the Gamecube nor the Wii sold their games for $60."
That's becasue they were
'de-facto' LAST GENERATION! Just like PS2 sold games for $50. PC games sell for $50 as there is no console licence fee on PC. I already gave a source that said WiiU games will be sold for £40 in the UK, that's $60 in US. Over here 360 and PS3 games sell for £40.
Look, stop and think about the multi-peripheral thing. No significant number of people such a Richie Rich buggers to buy 3 extra gamepads jsut in case their friends randomly come over with NO INTENTION of playing any games. No, they are told to bring their own xbox 360 controller from home. You CANNOT arbritrarily add on the cost of 3 extra controllers for Xbox 360 but not also the same cost for WiiU!
360 was sold as a profit. Look at my response to Matthew94. Wikipedia quote is WORTHLESS comapred to looking at how much the 360 actually cost to make... and how much it sold for. PS3 sold for a loss, but not Xbox 360 since 2006.
No, it is NINTENDO fans refuse to admit that Wii's power and price that is the issue. It IS de-facto previous gen by it's hardware capability. Sony apparently beat itself by the Playstation 2 outselling the PS3, but that doesn't count for anything.
It's intellectually dishonest to say people who wanted to play Modern Warfare 3 and Assassin's Creed 2 considered Nintendo Wii. No, Wii got a load of PS2 ports and EXTREMELY low quality ports of 360/PS3 games.
Then why does this not apply to Xbox 360 and PS3?!?
Because the only people who bought a 360 or PS3 years ago were the people who could afford it AND who were willing to pay any price to own it.
Oh so NOW you admit price being a factor. Well welcome to 2012, these HD console don't costs $400 any more, the Xbox 360 has an entry price of $200, WiiU has an entry price of no less than $300. Confirmed for £280 in the UK.
If WiiU was competitively priced with Xbox 360... why wouldn't they shout that out at this year's E3?!?
Wii stole the market because it was cheaper. WiiU will be more expensive.
PS2 was outdated hardware in 2005-2006
Wii was outdated hardware in 2006
"That's an entirely different marketing strategy than what Nintendo did, which is sell a brand new console with old outdated hardware for cheaper than a console with new hardware. The two are completely different situations."
It's not a "brand new" console IF IT USES GAMECUBE HARDWARE! It is only selling old hardware AS IF it was new! Nintendo conned millions acting like it was more modern than it actually was. It's pulling the same trick with WiiU, acting like it's next generation when it isn't.
"And I suppose we're all expected to take your word for it. "
No. you're supposed to do some research for yourself on capacitive and resistive touchscreens. ANd in general. You seem to have done little more than read the first paragraph of wikipedia articles without any citations.
Yes, the addition of twin concave clickable nalaogue sticks rather than analogue nubs make it MUCH more like a 360 controller as you couldn't have Call of Duty on the old controller as you'd have no left-click down for sprint or right stick click down for quick melee. The WiiU controller seen at least year's E3 had unique thumb slider controls that you couldn't click down and wouldn't work with many of the hardcore Xbox 360/PS3 games but would for Wii games.
I NEVER CLAIMED that 360 invented the clickable thumbstick! Nor implied so.
Why do you try to denigrate me with 360 fanboyism when it's clear that Nintendo is pandering to a control scheme VITAL for Call of Duty games on Xbox 360?
Look, I'm using 360 as representative, I don't want to have to get into all the BS surrounding PS3's supposed manufacturing costs and how they are making money with 3D-HDTVs and so on. Alright?
No. It HAS been confirmed to definitley cost more than $250, probably more than $300.
How is WiiU for tha casual market? HOW! You can't just conclude that because the Wii was.
The controller is geared towards games like COD and Assassin's Creed. The kinect, THAT is geared towards casual gamers and with gamepad more mainstream uses but WiiU. Why would the great mainstream give a crap about a stylus based touch-screen in what is essentially an oversized PS3/360 controller?!?!
"You are 100% wrong, and the only reason you don't want to admit it is because you've dug yourself into such a deep hole with this argument that there's no saving yourself now."
Don't use arguments that I could easilly use right back against you.
You have not made a convincing arugment (nor has nintendo) in how this can appeal to the casual market. It's not cheap. It's not intuitive.
Yeah, those estimates are right on the money. No one is saying the WiiU will be less than $200 as the XBox 360 has been selling at for a while now.
You have not provided evidence that 360 sold at a loss. You made a blind assertion and quoted a wikipedia article that speaks in generals not specifics. I have already given specifics.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html
Now appologise.
I don't have a favourite 'console'. My favourite platform is PC. I have a LOT of problems with Xbox 360 but I DO NOT APPRECIATE being bullshitted with the WiiU nor with the Wii on their worth.
And stop calling me deluded without ever giving a single example of delusion. It's bad forum manners.
