Will The Elder Scrolls Online end the same way as Swtor?

[SajuukKhar]

I think you are right. TES and Fallout both are games built around a heroic character and the choices they make. Subsequently the game world reflects those choices. One of the first choices in Fallout 3 was blowing up (or saving megaton) could you imagine an MMO where a single player could decide to destroy and quest hub? IMO TES and Fallout are mediocre games at best when it comes to mechanics, but they shine in the fact your choices seem to matter. I can't see how an MMO can capture this spirit. Give players freedom and the majority of players will turn npcs into thralls then heard them into a penis formation. Don't allow player freedom and congrats on creating generic fantasy #1000. Best of luck to the designers though, I hope it works out.

I've read in several previews that the game has a system that's kinda like phasing, but at the same time really isn't.

Like in one mission you can choose to save a fort, or some civilian place, and the one you save actually stays saved, and they remember you, while the other does get destroyed.

but you can group/interact with people who chose the other option.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6819/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-The-Comprehensive-Preview.html

This is where the first interesting design decision of ESO is seen. The game uses a form of "phasing" for the lack of a better word. As you complete missions, the world changes, and choices you make stay in that zone throughout the rest of your character's life. At one point after Bleakrock when you've made your way to Morrowind, you're asked to choose between defending docks or a keep from the encroaching forces. Whichever one you choose ultimately means the other suffers. And this choice stays that way permanently for that character. You might wonder how you'll be able to group with friends who choose the opposite. I wondered too, and was assured by ZOS that there will be a work-around so that you can always help your friends and group up even if your "statuses" in the world differ from one another.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yes, however Guild Wars 2 managed this by eliminating the role of healer. Every class is expected to maintain some degree of self-sufficiency through healing.

And, as stated by several interviews, every class in TESO does the same.

Apparently you've been living under a rock since Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations so let me lay this out for you; in traditional businesses employees have no say in how their company is run. Zenimax, and by extension Bethesda, is such a company. The vast majority of people hired in the company have no say on how it's run and the decision to make a TES MMO was likely made by a handful of people.

No I understand that quite well.

For that matter, it's a spectacular strawman on your part. No one at all is claiming that "the entire company" made this decision. When people say "X company did Y" it's shorthand for "W people at X company decided on Y so X did Y." The syllogism is shortened but the overall meaning stays the same.

But again, we don't know that Bethesda approved of it, Zenimax may have, but Zenimax doesn't need Bethesda's approval for shit.

Also, that sort of shorthand bullshit is exactly why there are people that, to this day, still say Bethesda made New Vegas, or Bethesda made dishonored.

And why not? Have you never heard of the term 'tone at the top'?

For the same reason I wouldn't blame all of America for the actions of The President.

I find it shameful that we live in a society that thinks it is acceptable to shift the blame from one person onto an entire group of people like that.

Straaaaaaw

No that is just common logic.

If there is no evidence of something, you cant claim that it exists.

 

[kasperbbs]

All i can say is that i have the same level of interest in this game as i had for swtor and that would be zero. I love Elder scrolls and i have been playing mmos for many years, but this just seems like a terrible idea.

 

[Muunokhoi]

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW. Hell even MMO's with dedicated fanbases like Star Trek and Star Wars were unable to combat this beast who in their right mind believes that Elder Scrolls is going to ever go toe to toe in a genre they have very little experience with. I know this may sound harsh and cynical but really I don't see this ending well for Bethesda or whoever though up this hair brained scheme.

 

[squid5580]

I think the way of subscription fees really only works with WoW now, and its only because they have such a dedicated fanbase that has put so much work into their characters, that to stop paying and lose all that would be difficult. Guild Wars 2 has shown that a quality MMO can survive, and even thrive, without extorting the consumers for $15 a month or whatever subscriptions cost now. I really want TESO to do well, but i highly, highly doubt it will last much longer than SWToR did, and that game had even more hype surrounding it than this game. But we'll see, as OP said, it's still a bit too far out to call out what will happen.

I think there is 1 part of the equation being left out of the Star Wars failure. You don't have to be a gamer to be a fan of Star Wars. So the name can only cater to a specific segment of the overall fanbase. Elder Scrolls on the other hand carries weight within the gaming community. 100% of the fanbase are gamers. It could be what puts ActiBlizz to actually start trying with WOW again (I mean Kung fu pandas really??? You go from a dragon changing the entire world to a land of kung fu pandas and that isn't just laziness?? Or worse we know we got you by the balls and you have to buy it to stay competitive since it includes a level cap increase.) or go down. Sorry went off topic for a moment.

The one thing that Scrolls will need that SW didn't is a trial right off the bat. I was pretty interested in SW when it was first announced but it took them so long to get a trail version out by the time it did come I had lost interest

 

[SajuukKhar]

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW. Hell even MMO's with dedicated fanbases like Star Trek and Star Wars were unable to combat this beast who in their right mind believes that Elder Scrolls is going to ever go toe to toe in a genre they have very little experience with. I know this may sound harsh and cynical but really I don't see this ending well for Bethesda or whoever though up this hair brained scheme.

There is a misconception that you need to do as well as WoW to be considered "doing well" in the MMO world, which is patently false.

ESO isnt trying to be WoW, or beat WoW, it isnt going against WoW, and it doesn't have to do anywhere near as well as WoW to make a profit.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I see this thread is full of some of the usual delusions that crop up whenever an MMO post appears on these forums. I'm not even going to bother correcting them all. People don't want to listen.

As for the sub fee thing...it's a calculated risk. If they're smart, they'll have a FTP model built into the back end so they can make a seamless transition when the time comes. And the time will come. It's not a very welcoming market for PTP games, it's just too saturated.

PS - I will correct one small thing. EVE has 400K subs, not 700K.

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW.

The problem isn't WoW specifically. WoW is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

 

[Comocat]

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW. Hell even MMO's with dedicated fanbases like Star Trek and Star Wars were unable to combat this beast who in their right mind believes that Elder Scrolls is going to ever go toe to toe in a genre they have very little experience with. I know this may sound harsh and cynical but really I don't see this ending well for Bethesda or whoever though up this hair brained scheme.

There is a misconception that you need to do as well as WoW to be considered "doing well" in the MMO world, which is patently false.

ESO isnt trying to be WoW, or beat WoW, it isnt going against WoW, and it doesn't have to do anywhere near as well as WoW to make a profit.

That's a fair point, but I think a lot of that perception will be how TESO handles their hype machine. SWTOR and Warhammer are notable in their failure because their hype train was essentially promising a new gaming experience that would overthrow WoW and revolutionize the genre. On their own they arent terrible games, but when you promise a product that substantially under delivers you open it up to criticism both warranted and unwarranted. SWTOR in no way deserves most of the hate its received as a game, but as a product it certainly does.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That's a fair point, but I think a lot of that perception will be how TESO handles their hype machine. SWTOR and Warhammer are notable in their failure because their hype train was essentially promising a new gaming experience that would overthrow WoW and revolutionize the genre. On their own they aren't terrible games, but when you promise a product that substantially under delivers you open it up to criticism both warranted and unwarranted. SWTOR in no way deserves most of the hate its received as a game, but as a product it certainly does.

Eh, I'm getting tired of people acting like they were the victims of "hype", as though they were incapable of thinking critically about marketing push, and as if the psychological effects of hype took place anywhere other than inside their own imagination. TOR didn't "undeliver" at all on my expectations, because as an adult sensibly mediating my expectations is something I learned to do a very long time ago. I knew exactly what to expect from TOR.

WAR's problem was not over-hype and failure to deliver. WAR's problem was that the game was fundamentally broken, both mechanically in terms of design, and functionally in terms of it actually working.

New MMOs aren't gaining "WoW like" traction because the state of the genre has changed dramatically since 2004.

 

[Zenn3k]

I'd rather P2P than F2P when it comes to an MMO. F2P MMO's want to attempt to nickel and dime you to death once you hit end-game. I'd rather just pay $15 a month and have no barriers than play for free, then have micro-transactions pop up every 5 feet.

It always amazes me that people are always firm on their "I won't play if it has a sub fee" claims. $15 a month or less, is a pittance, you pay 200x more for that just to drive your car each month. Its the cost of 1 movie a month in the theater. Shit, I sometimes spend $15 on 1 day's worth of lunch.

F2P MMOs suck hard, so I have no problems with a P2P system, all the best MMOs have been P2P.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'd rather P2P than F2P when it comes to an MMO. F2P MMO's want to attempt to nickel and dime you to death once you hit end-game. I'd rather just pay $15 a month and have no barriers than play for free, then have micro-transactions pop up every 5 feet.

It always amazes me that people are always firm on their "I won't play if it has a sub fee" claims. $15 a month or less, is a pittance, you pay 200x more for that just to drive your car each month. Its the cost of 1 movie a month in the theater. Shit, I sometimes spend $15 on 1 day's worth of lunch.

F2P MMOs suck hard, so I have no problems with a P2P system, all the best MMOs have been P2P.

Those days are long gone my friend. You have three kinds of MMO now.

BTP + PTP + Cash Shop. You buy the box, you pay a sub fee, and there's some kind of cash shop in there too to bleed you on cosmetics. WoW, TSW, even EVE are examples of this.

BTP + Cash Shop. This is your GW2 tier. Buy the box, and a slightly more insidious cash shop is on offer in place of the sub fee.

FTP. The box is free! There is no sub fee! The cash shop is a monstrosity, demanding fees around every corner.

 

[Zenn3k]

I'd rather P2P than F2P when it comes to an MMO. F2P MMO's want to attempt to nickel and dime you to death once you hit end-game. I'd rather just pay $15 a month and have no barriers than play for free, then have micro-transactions pop up every 5 feet.

It always amazes me that people are always firm on their "I won't play if it has a sub fee" claims. $15 a month or less, is a pittance, you pay 200x more for that just to drive your car each month. Its the cost of 1 movie a month in the theater. Shit, I sometimes spend $15 on 1 day's worth of lunch.

F2P MMOs suck hard, so I have no problems with a P2P system, all the best MMOs have been P2P.

Those days are long gone my friend. You have three kinds of MMO now.

BTP + PTP + Cash Shop. You buy the box, you pay a sub fee, and there's some kind of cash shop in there too to bleed you on cosmetics. WoW, TSW, even EVE are examples of this.

BTP + Cash Shop. This is your GW2 tier. Buy the box, and a slightly more insidious cash shop is on offer in place of the sub fee.

FTP. The box is free! There is no sub fee! The cash shop is a monstrosity, demanding fees around every corner.

Yes, but the cash shop with cosmetics are just that...cosmetics, useless junk I don't much care about.

But FTP is as you said, demanding money all the time.

I'd rather pay $15 a month to not be hassled by a basically "required" cash shop.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yes, but the cash shop with cosmetics are just that...cosmetics, useless junk I don't much care about.

But FTP is as you said, demanding money all the time.

I'd rather pay $15 a month to not be hassled by a basically "required" cash shop.

I hear you, but you're going to see less and less PTP as time goes on, for a couple of reasons. One is that it creates a barrier to entry for people, psychologically. It becomes hard to market your PTP game in an increasingly FTP world. Two, once people leave a PTP game, they seldom return, because paying $15 to see if the game has changed to your liking is a non-starter for some people...including ME, and I don't even mind sub fees. But most important "Fee to Play" is simply more PROFITABLE than PTP for all games not titled World of Warcraft, and if their sub numbers keep slipping that's going to be the case for them too.