Witcher 2 Dev Defends Asking €1000 From Pirates

[Clive Howlitzer]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

How do you figure? I see nothing wrong with them going after pirates. They could take pirates out and have them drawn and quartered for all I care and I'd still love CD Projekt as a company.

 

[Epona]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

How do you figure? I see nothing wrong with them going after pirates. They could take pirates out and have them drawn and quartered for all I care and I'd still love CD Projekt as a company.

You're trapped in the wrong century.

 

[Bat Vader]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

Good will from who? The pirates? I'm sure they're all choked up about that.

The problem with fighting piracy is that you can't win and you will ultimately become like EA or Ubisoft. Ignore the pirates, that is the only way.

It sounds like a pathetic solution and it is but if you can't beat the pirates, why are you wasting money, time and the good will of honest customers? Honest customers look down on heavy handed tactics like this.

I don't know what else to say on this matter.

I am an honest customer(bought The Witcher: Enhanced Edition and The Witcher 2: Collector's Edition) and I support them going after the people that pirated the game.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

How do you figure? I see nothing wrong with them going after pirates. They could take pirates out and have them drawn and quartered for all I care and I'd still love CD Projekt as a company.

You're trapped in the wrong century.

I think it is pretty safe to say I was joking. I am just saying I am fine with them pursuing pirates.

 

[Ledan]

They is in the wrong. If they had asked something reasonable, like 100-200 dollars, then it would make sense. This is just extortion. Piracy is like shoplifting. Don't force people to pay thousands or tens of thousands or millions of dollars for piracy. Its unreasonable and cant be legal.

 

[Bat Vader]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

By asking software counterfeiters (remember it's not theft, it's fraud) to do the right thing and pay up? How is that being a dick?

By asking they pay 20x the products worth, that is the dick move.

It may be a harsh punishment but the the people that pirated the game brought it on themselves. Hopefully this will teach them to purchase games legally.

 

[Sexy Devil]

*deleted*

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

Uh. You can demand only 3 times the software's worth on the current market.

$120 per game is at most what they can get.

Not more.

According to the law in Germany?

You figure they've got to AT LEAST get their court costs paid by the offender in addition to that... enforcing your rights in court costs money. Otherwise they'd go bankrupt even by winning every case, and I refuse to believe that a legal system would be set up that way.

I don't know anything about German law, but I know Polish law, and since the developers are from Poland... They must be just full of shit. And I say it as a guy who pre-ordered Witcher 1, and didn't play or preorder sequel (because I haven't finished the first game yet).

No sensible judge would order someone to pay 30 times the value.

No sensible judge WOULDN'T order someone to pay the costs of the wronged party trying to get their money. That includes a lawyer, that includes costs of gathering evidence that will hold up in court, that includes the salaries of the people who leave development of their games to spend the day in court to testify, and whatever costs the court itself imposes for hearing the case. Getting off for only a thousand dollars... about a month's expenses for your average college student, if you don't count school or books... is a BARGAIN. More importantly, it's just enough to sting... paying the sixty bucks you should have paid anyway isn't enough to make things right, or to keep you from doing it again, if someone has to spend their money and time finding you. Especially if there's a pretty low chance that they'll be able to find you, simply paying them back isn't a deterrent.

There is no case. They have just sent out letters to these people. No legal actions have been taken. There is not court costs. And it is no doubt that the legal department is responsible for this, but these allegedly guilty parties are not responsible for CDPR lawyers.

I disagree.

Again, if I spend my money and the time of my paid employees tracking down the people who took my stuff, you're darn right I'm going to tack those costs onto the bill when I catch them. And I would feel perfectly justified in doing so.

Keep in mind, also, that we don't know who these people are... the accusers might. If these are the people who loaded the game onto the internet for the world to see, or who own the site it's on, then they're responsible for everyone who got it from them, everyone they gave it to. At that point, a thousand bucks is nowhere NEAR what they're liable for.

And the whole "this is just a letter" bit cuts both ways, you know... if it's just a letter, with no legal force, they can ask for whatever they want. I can send you a letter right now asking for a million bucks, and as long as I'm threatening to sue you (something legal) or not threatening you at all, as opposed to breaking your legs (something illegal) I am perfectly within my rights to do that. It's not blackmail or anything.

Of course, if you think there's no way I can sue you for anywhere near that much, you're perfectly within YOUR rights to ignore the letter. At which point we'd all just have to see what happened next.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Here's my question:

If none of your pirated the game, why would you care?

Because sometimes people care about things that don't directly affect them.

I care.

 

[lewiswhitling]

So... they're sending out letters, trying to guilt trip pirates into paying exhorbitant amounts of money for the games they stole?

I can't see how this can possibly be effective, but I also don't see how someone could really disagree with it exactly... even if it's worded with the following language, "We know you specifically pirated our game, we have proof, and we will sue you if we have to. However, we are willing to settle with you out of court for the following sum," well, that's their right, isn't it? Provided they're being open about it like this, it's not exactly blackmail or anything.

If they don't plan on suing, (which is sort of my assumption... if you're going to sue someone you don't send a letter, you just serve them papers already with the option to settle... or however that works in Germany) then the message is different. Then the message becomes, "You may think you can steal from us without anyone knowing about it. You're wrong. We know. And when we are barely able to pay our phone bills, we will be thinking of you, Adrian."

It's basically annoying these people, trying to replicate the same reason that you don't steal the purse from the little old lady you pass on the street... it's not because you fear you'd get caught, not really. It's because you'd be seen to be hurting people for your own gain, and you'd feel like a jerk.

And hey. I'd prefer a company annoy the people who steal from them rather than annoying those who actually buy their games. Probably futile either way, but at least you aren't hurting your actual customers.

It's a tricky one. On one hand, yes, DRM probably is bad and does often punish the honest buyers.

But when there's no DRM at all on your game, it's inevitably going to be pirated. The DLC and stuff is surely DRM-free as well, so that'll just be pirated in as well.

It seems to me that CD Projekt had this "no-DRM" idea, then when they realised that they were losing literally MILLIONS of dollars, suddenly they need to start threatening people. I'm not saying that DRM is good by any means, but I think this specific approach is a tad short sighted.

I say that immortal, pink machine-gun death-scorpions should be the de-facto copy protection.

Games are pirated within a few days of release whether there are DRM's on it or not though.

Yeah, remember Spore, and how that annoying system was cracked in half an hour but plagued honest customers for months? You're not going to stop every pirate on the internet with your system. It just won't happen.

Remember assassin's creed? the DRM that actually wasnt cracked for about a month? I'm afraid the argument of "it's ineffective" just doesnt cut it now. Nor do the people saying that this is going to "poop" on the goodwill they've earned themselves. They haven't punished honest customers with intrusive DRM - they are punishing pirates. I 100% support this, and i hope they get back even a fraction of the huge amount of that lost cash.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

CDPR, who I fully support in the majority of things they do, are claiming to know to a 100% certain degree that these people are guilty of stealing from them. They cannot know, and if they did, they would have to show people how they know this, and not cite some secret agency.

Crazy idea: CD Projekt may have embedded some sort of tracker or reporting file into the Witcher 2.

Basically every game company does this. That's where all the ballparking statistics on how many games are stolen come from. Usually they don't do anything about it because of legal concerns with tracking down people through software installed on their computers. Which is I assume is why Germany is being targeted and not a country like the US, likely their privacy/piracy laws differ from other countries.

It sounds like a pathetic solution and it is but if you can't beat the pirates, why are you wasting money, time and the good will of honest customers? Honest customers look down on heavy handed tactics like this.

I don't know what else to say on this matter.

You're insane. Anyone who bears them good will is going to buy their game. Its not even expensive, I bought it for like 30 bux on steam a few months ago. And as an "honest customer," I think their demands are justified. They would probably have better luck if they simply demanded the retail 60$ price of the game, but what they are doing is by no means heavy handed.

Here's my question:

If none of your pirated the game, why would you care?

Because sometimes people care about things that don't directly affect them.

I care.

It directly affects anyone who plays video games, because the net sum of information about DLC and piracy, is what businesses look at when they are deciding how to release new games.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

DRM in no way stops piracy, it might slow down the pirats by a few hours but its still going to screw over any one who legit bought the game while the pirates get an all round better exspereance

And yeah ^ this. Any software you have ripped and installed on your computer can be modified to work no matter what DRM is in place. Even the most tyrannical DRM(ala Ubisoft) that requires you to be in constant communication with their server is a joke. Within a few days hackers simply made a dummy server you could run off your own computer even with your internet disconnected. Meaning anyone who stole it had no restrictions, and those that bought it legitimately were subjected to being kicked out of the game any time their internet had a hiccup or Ubisoft's servers had problems. Yes that's right, they basically incentiveized stealing their product.

 

[cerealnmuffin]

Sad to see how some pirates claim they pirate games, because they consider them not worth the money. The witcher 2 was an awesome and very long game. It is a shame that pirates are hurting company that delivers a deep experience that far exceeds the typical 4-6 hours gamers have come to expect in this current generation of titles.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

How, pray tell?

I see NOTHING wrong with that. CD Projekt have bent to the will of gamers, offering the game with no DRM for a cheaper price than other AAA games, and the gamers respond by pirating the shit out of it. I don't give a rip if "But some pirates are repeat-downloading"! THERE'S STILL EASILY TWO MILLION SEPARATE ILLEGAL COPIES OUT THERE.

TWO.

MILLION.

AT LEAST.

If anything, I've lost any and all sympathy that pirates had desperately tried to garner from me. They are NOT crusaders out defending the consumer, they're just incredibly greedy over-entitled freeloaders that I'm ashamed to share a species with. I hope and pray that CD Projekt win every. Single. Case. That they've sent out.

This move is similar to what the record companies did, it bring them down a notch or two. What's the point of taking off the DRM if you are just going to turn around and ask for 20 times the price of the game from pirates? The only thing that keeps them above the nastiness of the record companies is that they aren't actually suing, yet.

The reason I didn't support the record companies is because they were asking for millions/billions of dollars. $1300 is not life-ruining, it's a really hard wrist-slap.

This is why I like the move. Record companies are trying to ruin someone's life out of spite, CD Projekt is just imposing a hefty fine for stealing that should be a wake up call.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Except that is completely illegal. Two wrong doesnt make a right.

And?

You'd never be able to prove it, especially not in a court of law. Plus in this case the second wrong is profitable (and completely deserved, honour among thieves and so on), you can get away with most things as long as someone makes money out of it.

 

[Staskala]

This is why I like the move. Record companies are trying to ruin someone's life out of spite, CD Projekt is just imposing a hefty fine for stealing that should be a wake up call.

You can't compare what American record companies do in America to what a Polish company does in Germany.
Over here, the maximum reimbursable sum for first time convictors of minor copyright violation is merely 100?, which would leave 900? for the lawyer writing a letter, far above any reasonable expectation. CD Projekt demands a sum that's above anything that is legally possible.
As such it is apparent that they're just jumping on the C&D train, cranking out the letters hoping (sadly rightfully so) that no one would actually go to court.

Of course, if you don't live in Germany you probably don't know about the Abmahnwelle/C&D wave, its implications, its abuse, how there are entire companies and lawyers who do nothing but tread the internet for even the most minor copyright violation to send a C&D letter and how it goes far beyond "pirates getting just punishment". It's more of a form of extortion, taking advantage of confused individuals, who may or may not even be guilty. Indeed, you don't have to prove anything to send a C&D letter, only if the receiver rejects it goes the case to court. And considering what lawyers cost, how many people do you think go to court over pirating a song or game?
In almost all cases the sum demanded is deemed too high by a court, but since you also have to pay the lawyers you're still much worse off if you try to get justice. That's the issue here, whether or not the pirates deserve it is secondary to this asinine C&D-industry (that's what it has become), how it can basically do whatever the fuck they want and how it by now affects the entire internet in Germany. Seeing CD Projekt go along with that particular practice is more than saddening.
By American standards CD Projekt might seem mild, but by German and especially other-European (where you can't demand anything for C&D letters) standards they've jumped the shark with this.

 

[Frostbite3789]

This move is similar to what the record companies did, it bring them down a notch or two. What's the point of taking off the DRM if you are just going to turn around and ask for 20 times the price of the game from pirates? The only thing that keeps them above the nastiness of the record companies is that they aren't actually suing, yet.

What's the point of trying to build up good will by not having DRM if people are just going to pirate the shit out of your game anyways. They're still a business. You're aware of this, right?

They work for profit.

 

[MrTub]

Except that is completely illegal. Two wrong doesnt make a right.

And?

You'd never be able to prove it, especially not in a court of law. Plus in this case the second wrong is profitable (and completely deserved, honour among thieves and so on), you can get away with most things as long as someone makes money out of it.

Yeah its very hard to prove that a company made a malware installed on a computer and suddenly they got shitload of cash from the owners computer.. Yeah there are no proof at all. And how do you suggest that Witcher 2 devs plant the malware on the computer?