Witcher 2 Dev Defends Asking €1000 From Pirates

[snfonseka]

What's the point of taking off the DRM if you are just going to turn around and ask for 20 times the price of the game from pirates?

The point of taking off the DRM wasn't to go easy on pirates, it was to avoid punishing the people who DON'T pirate with invasive software like SecuROM.

Looks like "Crono1973" entirely missed the point of DRM free products.

 

[snfonseka]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

Good will from who? The pirates? I'm sure they're all choked up about that.

The problem with fighting piracy is that you can't win and you will ultimately become like EA or Ubisoft. Ignore the pirates, that is the only way.

It sounds like a pathetic solution and it is but if you can't beat the pirates, why are you wasting money, time and the good will of honest customers? Honest customers look down on heavy handed tactics like this.

I don't know what else to say on this matter.

Honest customers shouldn't give a fuck about company's way of fighting pirates as long, as it doesn't hurt them (and in this case - it doesn't). Why? Because they're honest customers, so all those possible lawsuits/fines/whatever doesn't involve them in any way. They paid for the game, and CD Projekt doesn't interfere with it. Simple as that.

My opinion on this? I don't give a fuck. I payed for the game, it's awesome, no bullshit DRM. It's CD Projekt's potential lost money, and it's pirates who potentially stole the money from them. Therefore - it's their problem, not ours. End of story.

Actually I don't think any "non-pirate" customers should worry about this.

 

[x-machina]

This is a disgusting heavy handed corporate law-suit. I can not believe how many of you people support this kind of shit.

 

[Bat Vader]

Game developers should stop whinning and complaining until they let customers that legitmately are not happy with the product return it. Until then, all I have to say to them is ''Fuck you''. I didn't like Witcher 2 but I gave it a shot because of all the hub-bub about it at the time, after pulling this kind of shit, they have lost all hope for a second chance from me.

I disagree strongly. If you buy a DVD, bring it home and open it up, then most stores won't allow you to return it. In the same way, a computer game should not be returnable due to how easy it is to copy/pirate the media once you open the packaging.

My suggestion to you: read reviews, watch playthroughs/video demos and ask for feedback from people who play the game.

If you don't want to "waste money" by the risk of buying a game you might not like, then don't play computer games. There are plenty of other hobbies available.

Disagree strongly as much as you want, DVDs and Games are not compareable. The last time I bought a DVD for over 10? is quite a few years ago and as you might guess, there is a huge difference between 10 and 50-60?. Also, with a Movie, there is no Interaction, so Videos actually have a meaning. What difference does it make that I could copy the disc when I could just as easily download the Game somewhere. <-- That is not a argument.

Your ''suggestion'': The Idea of a Video Game is playing it. There isn't much sense in watching others play it, because no matter how vibrant they describe something, it will never give you a sense of what it is actually like. Also, I don't care if there are other Hobbies available, honestly, what kind of stupidity is that? Gaming is my hobby and pretty much always has been. I actually remember how back in the day we had these crazy things called demos. But instead of using new possibilities to come closer to customers, like for instance using the countless digital download services like steam to release time-based full versions, they'd rather shit all over them. If you like that, fine by me, but I will continue to flip them off.

CD Project made a hardcore, PC Exclusive RPG, they should be happy that they not only reached break-even, but made profit aswell. Instead of not only punishing pirates, but trying to line their own pockets in the process, they should have considered what they could do next time to reach a larger audience. The only thing the have accomplished with this is that even those Pirates that might have bought the next Title they ship, won't anymore. *clap* Good job, morons.

Just because a demo isn't available doesn't give someone the right to pirate the game. The amount that CDPR wants does seem a bit much but at the same time it seems like a fitting punishment.

 

[shaboinkin]

Here's my question:

If none of your pirated the game, why would you care?

Because sometimes people care about things that don't directly affect them.

I care.

It isn't even something to care about. It's copyright laws and they have every right to go after people who pirate the game. They provided a great game without DRM which is supposedly a reason why people pirate games/music to begin with.
A company puts DRM in a game, people go ape shit, complain how this is a reason why to pirate a game, and pirate it.
A company doesn't put DRM in a game, people are happy, and people still pirate it.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I guess this is a marketing stunt what with not pursing harsher measures but I'm sure to what end. I guess they want to look like the underdog but then they misunderstand the culture they face. They are trying to influence a culture that sees every company and business as evil unless you become ascended (like valve) and you can do no wrong. Maybe if they learn how to get on the "like forever" list with gamers then that would work but right now I don't think there stunt is going to do much good. I'd be more effective to threaten to never make a third game unless everyone who knows a pirate turns over some info on them (at least then you leverage something you have power over).

 

[Something Amyss]

Well you "can't prove" that the amount of pirated copies isn't 4.5 million (see we can draw the "You can't prove X therefor X is 100% true" card too!)

Yes, and in doing so, you're asking to prove a negative rather than actually proving the stance stated.

Congrats, I think you hit three logical fallacies in a single sentence. I have trouble believing you fail to understand the inherent problems with what you just said, so I'm going to assume dishonesty instead.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

They are squandering the good will they have gained for themselves.

by... showing that they don't support piracy?

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

I think its a little much, I say they make them pay a little over the asking price or double. Make it so its actually doable.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

It's a tricky one. On one hand, yes, DRM probably is bad and does often punish the honest buyers.

But when there's no DRM at all on your game, it's inevitably going to be pirated. The DLC and stuff is surely DRM-free as well, so that'll just be pirated in as well.

It seems to me that CD Projekt had this "no-DRM" idea, then when they realised that they were losing literally MILLIONS of dollars, suddenly they need to start threatening people. I'm not saying that DRM is good by any means, but I think this specific approach is a tad short sighted.

Except that the DRM does nothing, because it's cracked within a week. For one thing, that number is way too high compared to how much it's actually been pirated.

 

[salinv]

Crazy idea: CD Projekt may have embedded some sort of tracker or reporting file into the Witcher 2.

Not so crazy, a lot of games have data trackers that report back to the developer to give the developer information on their demographic and how the content might be enjoyed; some developers like to measure player behavior. Its called "metrics." Here's a link to something some people might find familiar on this site: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/metrics

It goes on to talk about how they are used for design and such, but yeah.

I wouldn't send them threats, I'd send them rootkits and malware so I could drain their bank accounts remotely. What are they going to do, sue the company because their stolen software damaged their system?

Interesting idea, but maybe the pirates should just be sniped from afar so that no one has to go through the trouble of directly communicating or dealing with the pirates in the first place? Seize their belongings and take that as your reimbursement.

In all seriousness, it wouldn't work; they would still run into the problem of hitting people that might not have pirated the game. You could just place that dormant rootkit in the code, but that still has the problem of it happening to real users. Though, you could have it happen to all users, but let it only execute if the "piracy" flag is tripped, no one knows it happens, and all is good.

And yet, it doesn't fix the problem of it being just as unethical and illegal as the piracy in the first place...

 

[isometry]

I think the problem with these developers is that they are too big for their britches. In my opinion TW2 was not worth $50 that they charged at launch and for months afterwards, for this kind of short linear RPG the price should be lower. It's a fine game, but not worth that price, and no way would I pay that much for one of their games in the future.

How many of those pirates were people who wanted to try the game before taking a chance and paying premium price for a relatively unknown developer's product? How much of the word-of-mouth positive buzz for TW2 came from people who pirated the game and enjoyed it?

I buy all my games and I'm no fan of piracy, but if they think they can charge premium price and throw their legal weight around like one of the industry heavyweights, without building a credible reputation to match, then I predict they will go bankrupt with their next game (and they'll blame piracy instead of blaming their own over-priced too short game).

 

[isometry]

I guess this is a marketing stunt what with not pursing harsher measures but I'm sure to what end. I guess they want to look like the underdog but then they misunderstand the culture they face. They are trying to influence a culture that sees every company and business as evil unless you become ascended (like valve) and you can do no wrong. Maybe if they learn how to get on the "like forever" list with gamers then that would work but right now I don't think there stunt is going to do much good.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Whatever the merits of treating some developers as "ascended" and others as evil, TW2 was not enough value for the dollar to put these guys anywhere near my "like forever" list, which makes them either (1) an independent underdog or (2) an evil coporation. This story about their legal threats moves them from a (1) to a (2) in my book, and that makes me more likely to boycott their future releases then to buy them.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

CD Projekt, the Polish studio behind the acclaimed Witcher series has sent letters demanding nearly &euro;1000 (about $1,300) to numerous German gamers found to have pirated its most recent game. The developer is unapologetic for the response, claiming it only affects those it's "100% sure have downloaded [the] game illegally."

Um... just checking, but is that $1,300 EACH, or or $1,300 total from all the letters?

Cause, if they're asking, say, 70 pirates to send them $20 each, then that's actually pretty reasonable.

If they're asking EACH pirate to send $1,300 on a game that costs around $60... then I have to assume that there's something very strange going on.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

This is why I like the move. Record companies are trying to ruin someone's life out of spite, CD Projekt is just imposing a hefty fine for stealing that should be a wake up call.

You can't compare what American record companies do in America to what a Polish company does in Germany.
Over here, the maximum reimbursable sum for first time convictors of minor copyright violation is merely 100?, which would leave 900? for the lawyer writing a letter, far above any reasonable expectation. CD Projekt demands a sum that's above anything that is legally possible.
As such it is apparent that they're just jumping on the C&D train, cranking out the letters hoping (sadly rightfully so) that no one would actually go to court.

Of course, if you don't live in Germany you probably don't know about the Abmahnwelle/C&D wave, its implications, its abuse, how there are entire companies and lawyers who do nothing but tread the internet for even the most minor copyright violation to send a C&D letter and how it goes far beyond "pirates getting just punishment". It's more of a form of extortion, taking advantage of confused individuals, who may or may not even be guilty. Indeed, you don't have to prove anything to send a C&D letter, only if the receiver rejects it goes the case to court. And considering what lawyers cost, how many people do you think go to court over pirating a song or game?
In almost all cases the sum demanded is deemed too high by a court, but since you also have to pay the lawyers you're still much worse off if you try to get justice. That's the issue here, whether or not the pirates deserve it is secondary to this asinine C&D-industry (that's what it has become), how it can basically do whatever the fuck they want and how it by now affects the entire internet in Germany. Seeing CD Projekt go along with that particular practice is more than saddening.
By American standards CD Projekt might seem mild, but by German and especially other-European (where you can't demand anything for C&D letters) standards they've jumped the shark with this.

My apologies for speaking from good ol' American ignorance. In that case, they are definitely in the wrong.

 

[brainslurper]

I like this strategy. People who bought the game get to play it unobstructed, the developer gets their money, and the people who felt they were entitled to someone else's hard work for free get to pay $1300 for it. Everyone wins!

 

[brainslurper]

Crazy idea: CD Projekt may have embedded some sort of tracker or reporting file into the Witcher 2.

Not so crazy, a lot of games have data trackers that report back to the developer to give the developer information on their demographic and how the content might be enjoyed; some developers like to measure player behavior. Its called "metrics." Here's a link to something some people might find familiar on this site: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/metrics

It goes on to talk about how they are used for design and such, but yeah.

I wouldn't send them threats, I'd send them rootkits and malware so I could drain their bank accounts remotely. What are they going to do, sue the company because their stolen software damaged their system?

Interesting idea, but maybe the pirates should just be sniped from afar so that no one has to go through the trouble of directly communicating or dealing with the pirates in the first place? Seize their belongings and take that as your reimbursement.

In all seriousness, it wouldn't work; they would still run into the problem of hitting people that might not have pirated the game. You could just place that dormant rootkit in the code, but that still has the problem of it happening to real users. Though, you could have it happen to all users, but let it only execute if the "piracy" flag is tripped, no one knows it happens, and all is good.

And yet, it doesn't fix the problem of it being just as unethical and illegal as the piracy in the first place...

They seem to be pretty nice about this, and if one out of a thousand didn't pirate it, their loss would be spending a little time proving they didn't pirate it.

 

[brainslurper]

Hmm. I don't really object to what they're doing, but I do wonder what they're trying to accomplish with this. You will never be able to stop piracy. The best you can do is coerce people to buy legally. When they took their "no-DRM" stance, they garnered quite a lot of good-will, even among the pirates. Specifically, the people who pirate because of DRM.

I think it's a wasted effort. This seems to be an attempt at setting an example. However, by doing this, they might have squandered the good-will that they gained. Both the game industry, and those that try to stay involved with its inner-workings, need to stop looking at this issue of piracy in the short-term, and gain a little perspective.



Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.

No, it's not. They are getting money from people who, if they weren't tremendous assholes, would have given them money anyways. I don't think their goal was ever to "stop" piracy. I don't see how charging thieves money for stealing something from them would ever affect good will they gained by not punishing people who bought their game legally.

 

[brainslurper]

On the one hand there is now 1 more company frantically suing pirates.

On the other hand the usual amount asked is tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. I could get hit with a 1300 dollar fine and survive it easily. If I got hit with a 200,000 fine I would go under and since I am a dependent on my parents healthcare they would have to pay what I can't. If I made my parents go broke I would literally have to kill myself.

So yeah the reason I don't mind this is CDred's penalty for pirating a game 1 time is 1300 dollars. The music industry will force you to kill yourself.

Heres a bright idea, don't steal things, then you don't have to worry about people holding you accountable for it.