Woman lops off man?s nose for harassing her

[darth gditch]

You are stereotyping and generalizing. Yes, what happened to this girl was terrible. Yes the culture that allowed this to happen was Islamic. And yes, in certain parts of the world it is oppressive.

But all Muslims are not like that. The entire religion and culture is not to blame for the actions of individuals.

There are crazies everywhere from every background.

 

[cainx10a]

There's retardo posts and then Teddy starts pressing keys.

That does not make my point invalid, as I said: the western world has changed, the islamic one is dead set on keepin their backwards ways.

Not like Ireland at all, what with all their squabbles over religion and borders right? Sorry flower, the world is petty and nobody is better than anyone else.
Just because they don't do things by our book doesn't make them backwards at all.

Someone mentioned there are 150 million muslims in Indonesia, is it like that there?
Islamic influence is not as strong there then as it is elsewhere.

Sorry, no. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country.

Religion and the state are not seperate there
There? Where? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Turkey? Morocco? Algeria? Iraq? Iran? Indonesia? Yeah, because I remember the name of every nation of that influence.

Thank god you keep track of what you're saying, heaven forbid you just faceroll that keyboard.

Their religion claims to be one of peace.
'nuff said.

That's the most garbage response I've ever read.
Who's religion isn't based upon peace?

You're taking what I said out of context, disregarding that, the vast amjority of their families do act very much like the case in the OP
Vast majority? Proof? Stop talking out of your ass.
Where's your proof?

Oh, something you're up to speed on. I wouldn't be surprised if you've just heard this from one of your more intolerant buddies.

Because I can tell you one thing, I have/had muslim friends and close relation with their families, most are of indian descent, some of Saudi and they are fucking normal people, and have accomplished more than I will be able to do in this lifetime. And no, they weren't raised on "western values".
They act perfectly fine "over here" because their ways are frowned upon.
I would not reccomend going to their home nations with them.

Please, recount these numerous horror stories of people going to Muslim nations and not being treated with total respect and well being.
I don't know what you think will happen, but you are clearly pretty jaded on the whole subject.

If you're actual going to say that people are "Backwards as a culture" you should probably know what you're talking about.
You tout nothing but the local garbage you hear from disgruntled folk when a few "coloured people with beards" move into the area.

She doesn't even know any Muslims personally. She is just an attention whore who post for the sake of posting.

 

[Lyri]

1)
Not like Ireland at all, what with all their squabbles over religion and borders right? Sorry flower, the world is petty and nobody is better than anyone else.
Just because they don't do things by our book doesn't make them backwards at all.


2)
Sorry no. Indonesia is a Muslim country.

3)
That's the most garbage response I've ever read.
Who's religion isn't based upon peace?

4)
Oh, something you're up to speed on. I wouldn't be surprised if you've just heard this from one of your more intolerant buddies.


5)
Please, recount these numerous horror stories of people going to Muslim nations and not being treated with total respect and well being.
I don't know what you think will happen, but you are clearly pretty jaded on the whole subject.

1)
the catholics and protestants did not persecute others on anywhere near the scale that the Muslims do.
The border issue was a political issue, not a religious one.

2)
The Aceh province in Indonesia has the highest proportion of Muslims in the country with regional levels of Sharia law.
Homosexual activity is illicit under Sharia; however, the prescribed penalties differ from one school of jurisprudence to another. For example, these countries may allow the death penalty for sodomy and homosexual activities: Iran, Mauritania,Nigeria,Saudi Arabia, Somalia.In contrast in Indonesia (outside of Aceh province) homosexuality and sodomy are legal
Also:
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/SE+Asia/Story/STIStory_429633.html
So the area with the highest concentration of Muslims has Homosexuality punishable by stonign?
Hmmm....

3)
You missed my point completely.

4)
5)
It's impossible to determine that something does not exist[footnote]I found that difficult to phrase so I'm sure you will misunderstand it[/footnote] (Muslims not obeying Sharia law for example) while there is plently of cases where the Muslims act how I claim they act.

1/ The scale is smaller so therefore they're more right?
Derp.
It reflected the earlier point just fine, bring something solid to the table to argue with.

2/ Ok and?
Again, are you going somewhere with this point or just stating a fact? They stone homosexuals to death in the Muslim province of Indonesia.
They also cut off thieves hands, a boy in my religious education class also recounted his sisters witnessing of a beheading at Mecca.
In some ways their justice system is pretty enviable.

3/ Then you'll probably want to go back over it again, preferably not with just a single sentence as "your point".
The topic of "Islamic behviour: Right or wrong?" is much more complex than your

4/
5/ I understand what you're saying fine, however you can still show a source for the times it does.
India (For example) is a completely different place to England/Ireland. People have walked across that land penniless and begged for food and shelter and got it.
Why?
Because Islam believe that travellers are blessed, they're also told to give them food and shelter for 3 days.
Some horror stories may happen but then again, grab a dart and throw it at a map.
Your sweeping generalization is so terrible.

 

[Pumpkin_Eater]

To a large extent I agree, however I do think there are to many contradictions between cultures on a single continent to put them all under one label.

My real point, however, was that you cannot honestly just say that you simply enjoy European culture. There are hundreds of European cultures, all with their varying, and sometimes contradictory features. It is a statement so vague that it is almost meaningless (though no offense is meant to the poster of the statement).

EDIT: I think its also interesting to note the Eastern European and Western Asian cultures overlap heavily. I would like to go further with this point, but I think it would inappropriate to do so in a thread on a different topic.

Perhaps a better way of looking at it would be to use organism classifications as a reference. At the species level would be very small, specific cultures like southern US, genus could be aggregated national cultures, family as multinational blocks like Eastern Europe or sub Saharan Africa, then order could describe continents. By the time you reach an order in biology you have incredible amounts of diversity, yet there are still some common, defining features that distinguish one order from another.

 

[Drexlor]

I supposed that he deserved it. But losing your nose? That stinks. (This is quite possibly the worst pun ever uttered, I'm ashamed of myself)

 

[Cmichaels]

He Shouldn't Have Been So Nosey.
LOL

Made lol. You sir win.

 

[JimmerDunda]

-snip-

Here's a little bit of reading for you:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.195560-Misconceptions-in-Islam?page=2#6284799
Post 46 & 47

"Our basic laws never change (prayer, punishment, etc)."

So no, homosexuality isn't about to become legal.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.195560-Misconceptions-in-Islam?page=2#6284930

Post 48

"Black Magic is very real, and if a person is found guilty ( and it take alot of evidence) then they are executed."

Burn teh witches!11!1!

You said that you don't know any Muslims? Right? Stop wasting my time you bigoted little woman, go waste someone else time, you know, one of those forum-goers who enjoy listening to people bash Islam? You can find them easily, and have a great time talking about how Islam is planning to destroy your western values, and how muslim families are a facade for extremists-in-training. Since I'm too lazy to post pictures of cute litte girls wearing hijabs, I'm just going to add that these heathens have a suicide belts under their smiles!.

Burn teh bigotttss!!!1111!1111!!1

You're just throwing a tantrum at this stage.

He does this often. Whenever he can't back up an argument he screams "bigotry."

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

...good.

In all seriousness, I would have cut off more.

 

[Vilcus]

Well... the nose knows. Crap, I'm joining in on the crappy puns train.

He deserved it, and he deserves a nice long prison sentence for slandering her, and ruining her life. I don't know what to think anymore when I hear stories like this one. It's just terrible how people can abuse their own family members for "dishonouring them", and make no mistake, it happens everywhere. Every culture is guilty of domestic abuse, and I have a feeling that we won't be seeing an end to it any time soon.

 

[JimmerDunda]

-snip-

Oh:
Also homosexuals are executed in Islamic influenced nations

Those homosexuals, knowing how some Islamic countries are not ready for those drastic changes considering the state of their countries, should have done something sensible, keep it to themselves, find others like themselves, slowly but surely work to make sure their families understand their decisions and accept it. Then work on to change how their community view homosexuality.

It might sounds like a defeatist tactic, but it payoffs when the environment they are within changes with time.

"hey, abdul you didn't get married?" "hey, abdul why do you live with Osama?"

"Osama is just my buddy, pa!"

Excuses, they work sometimes.

So you defend the fact the majority of the Muslim community rejects homosexuals and just toss it off as "they'll get acquainted to it." Yet you demonize western nations who have a harder time warming up to Islam.

You show nothing more than to be an apologist. You scream bigotry when something bad happens to a person of Islamic faith, yet whenever it comes to the flaws of Islam you toss around excuses.

Not trying to attack either side here, but for someone who loves to call out others on "ignorance" or "bigotry" you sure do have a one sided argument yourself.

 

[cainx10a]

@Jimmy

Where in this thread did I "demonize" western nations?

And it's just my opinion that in those countries, whereby there might be no groups to support homosexuals plight, that they (middle-eastern homosexuals) have to start their own movement and at the same time deal with their parents (because that's the biggest support in middle-eastern culture) by trying to make them understand. I offer a solution (although I am no expert in that field), while people like a certain it-shall-not-be-named only offer bile only as a mean to demonize muslims.


And I was NOT excusing homosexuals getting killed in their own countries. And yes, I will cry bigotry in an era where it's too obvious there is a problem of western people bashing muslims without knowing any muslims, and thinking that they are some alien barbarian race.

That is all. Good night.

Did you even read her arguments? Asking for proof that muslim families don't have some sort of scheme to some nefarious end? That they are only acting up in western countries because "their ways are frown upon here"?

Anyway, I'm going to stop here, because apparently the two of you make a nice couple.

 

[superbatranger]

Fuck, I come into this thread curious about this woman who cut off a man's nose, and then it devolves into DT and some guy who I've never seen before bickering at each other. So you two have different views. So what? No reason to start fighting with each other. Shit, I'm surprised your argument hasn't gotten this thread locked already. But, what do I know? Maybe you two have had issues in the past.

OT: Maybe it's just me, but I feel that if she had lopped his tongue off it would have been...more symbolic. You know, because then he'd never be able to harass her, at least not verbally.

 

[Gigano]

It's most certainly understandable.

Her being beaten up due to abhorrent, in part religiously inspired, norms on "honor" and female chastity is inexcusable, and her family should be imprisoned for the abuse.

While (most sects within) Islam certainly has it's share of unethical dogmas and norms - like most other religions have - and should be relentlessly criticised and condemned for them, local cultural norms and lack of education and development probably played a great(er) part in this travesty though.

Taking socio-economic factors into account, and separating "Islamism" - The limited theocratic anti-secular, anti-democratic caliphate & sharia law loving extremist political branch - from "Islam", the religion itself is probably no worse - or better - than the other Abrahamic religions.

That of course ain't saying much for it, if we go by the 100 % literalist interpretation (execute gays etc.), but I think most Muslims are as "moderate" - however intellectually dishonest such concept is when dealing with any religion that is by its own accords an absolute undivideable truth - as common "Christians" are, and thus should be treated the same way as they.

 

[Agayek]

Okay, for those who may have missed the similarity between this incident and a certain cover of a popular "news" magazine recently, I'm going to point it out. This is just a bit of a reversal here, in fact, it's an interesting reversal in a lot of ways, and I find a couple of things interesting here.

The first thing I find interesting is that even though the man never actually harmed her, and she caused permanent damage to him, he's still the bad guy. If the situation was reversed, would people be saying it was justified? Or would the mere SUGGESTION that it was justified be called sexist?

Second, all we hear is from her. We never hear from the guy, we're not getting the whole story. For all we know, she started it. We don't know, and the information is not given. She responded incorrectly to the situation out of all proportion. This fact alone suggests that she's not altogether stable.

Here's the problem I'm having with the modern sex dynamics (I avoid the term 'gender' as I've had people argue with me over what that means). In the narrative of sex politics, men are always the villains, women are always the pure angels incapable of doing any wrong. This has been repeated ad nauseum for at least twenty years, and I'm calling it now. The problem with the modern view of the sexes is that it states that women are better than men, but men dominate women. This is nonsensical, and stupid. If women were in every way superior to men as we are led to believe (or at least equal in every way) how did men dominate them? I mean, the greater physical strength of men? This can't exist (according to the modern view of the sexes) because women are equal in every respect to men. For men to dominate women to the degree that they supposedly do, they would have to have some inherent advantage. The entire theory upon which the feminist theory of history is flawed, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

There's one problem with all this: You're basing your argument on Western culture. That simply doesn't hold true in Pakistan. Just the rumor that she was sleeping with that guy lead to severe beatings, performed by her father no less, and it could easily have led to murder. The woman is the good guy here because she chose to fight back against systematic oppression instead of meekly accepting it as she has been raised to do.

Her response, assuming the article was factual, was perfectly valid, and in no way out of proportion.

As for your final, fairly random, point, the reason men dominated women for so long is for one simple reason: Men are stronger and more aggressive. It's simply a fact that men are more physically capable (on average, I don't want to hear about whatever woman you know that can fold you into a pretzel) in almost every regard, plus with our natural aggression, we were the ones who took control in the... less civilized era. Our societies have all been built on that foundation, and until very recently martial prowess was still one of the largest defining factors in societal power, meaning men retained that power.

To be fair to the feminist movement, though, there are more than likely more than a few very big historical decisions that were inspired, if not outright made, by women.

 

[Agayek]

I would just like to stop for a second and point out one thing.
You, are in Ireland... Think about that for a second before you go calling other places backwards or a joke.
Going by your statements chances are you know absolutely nothing about their culture other then the occasional snippet like this that you see yet you, being in fucking Ireland of all places, decide to run your mouth at how backwards these people are.

Just stop and think for a second about how the rest of the world perceives your people.

Seriously people, this over the top, mindless, arrogant and fucking stupid attitude of insulting an entire country just because of a few incidents that you happen to hear occurred in this place disgusts me.
Furthermore it annoys me since as a westerner the arrogance, stupidity and overwhelming intolerance of such people pisses me off since I inevitably get lumped in with them.
Then these fools have the fucking gall to go on about how accepting they are of others because they support gay marriage.

Considering it's culturally acceptable, if not encouraged, to throw large rocks at a woman until she's dead if she isn't a virgin on her wedding night in the vast majority of Islamic countries, it is not too much of a stretch to call such cultures backwards. Is every Muslim a raving, misogynistic lunatic? No, but that doesn't change the fact that as a culture, it upholds values that are... deplorable, for lack of a better word, to anyone who believes in equality and liberty.

For a frame of reference, while I've never been to a Muslim country, I know a woman who spent a few months in Saudi Arabia (and she's never going back, that much is sure), and I have spent a great deal of time studying the Qur'an and what sources I can find about Islamic culture.

 

[Valkyrie101]

-snip-

Oh:
Also homosexuals are executed in Islamic influenced nations

Those homosexuals, knowing how some Islamic countries are not ready for those drastic changes considering the state of their countries, should have done something sensible, keep it to themselves, find others like themselves, slowly but surely work to make sure their families understand their decisions and accept it. Then work on to change how their community view homosexuality.

1: They shouldn't have to.
2: Kinda hard to work for change when homosexuals are public hung from tank guns.

It might sounds like a defeatist tactic, but it payoffs when the environment they are within changes with time.

Well, Muslims take pride in the fact that over ~1400 years their religion has no changed at all, so I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Booze Zombie]

She was having her life turned into a living Hell and cut off the nose of the dude who supposedly was doing it... well, I don't know how much opinion I can offer on this without actually knowing all of the people involved, but cutting someone's nose off doesn't seem like something you'd do lightly, you know.

You'd have to be pretty damn stressed to just go out and think "I'mma mutilate this fucker over here".