Woman murdered for rejecting a man, another gets her throat slashed for the same.

[dragoongfa]

Excuses are a dime a dozen when it comes to physical assaults and any crime in general. If such physical assaults are commonplace in the US then the victims should report them to the police and let the justice system short things out.

Many people don't have that much faith in the justice system, and not for no reason.

I agree but letting crimes go unpunished is accepting the crime as justifiable.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Excuses are a dime a dozen when it comes to physical assaults and any crime in general. If such physical assaults are commonplace in the US then the victims should report them to the police and let the justice system short things out.

Many people don't have that much faith in the justice system, and not for no reason.

I agree but letting crimes go unpunished is accepting the crime as justifiable.

Certainly, but that shouldn't be extended to condemning victims for their response to the crime.

 

[The Lunatic]

It is incredibly sexist to treat the deaths as two women as somehow more of a tragedy than that of the 8 men which die for ever 2 women.

Worldwide, men account for almost 80% of all homicides.

To belittle that just to push a narrative of "Oh, please, think of the women" is disgusting.

 

[dragoongfa]

Excuses are a dime a dozen when it comes to physical assaults and any crime in general. If such physical assaults are commonplace in the US then the victims should report them to the police and let the justice system short things out.

Many people don't have that much faith in the justice system, and not for no reason.

I agree but letting crimes go unpunished is accepting the crime as justifiable.

Certainly, but that shouldn't be extended to condemning victims for their response to the crime.

For the issue of not reporting crimes to the police, I believe that it's not as much the victims fault as is society's in general. Society should be the one to constantly point out that reporting crimes to the proper authorities is the only acceptable social behavior.

I blame the constant 'police are evil' articles more than anything in this regard.

 

[Thaluikhain]

For the issue of not reporting crimes to the police, I believe that it's not as much the victims fault as is society's in general. Society should be the one to constantly point out that reporting crimes to the proper authorities is the only acceptable social behavior.

Not seeing much distinction, unless you are saying it shouldn't be your job to condemn the victim.

I blame the constant 'police are evil' articles more than anything in this regard.

Unfortunately, they are not without truth. Hell, police officers are drawn from the same society as everyone else, if there's a way to ensure all police are on the level, why can't this apply to everyone else? Society can't have a problem with any given crime without it being reflected in the police, surely.

 

[DC_78]

US males do not have a tendency to physically assault women when they are rejected, it is socially and culturally reprehensible.

Nominally, yes, but there's always an excuse as to why most individual cases can be justified, or at least overlooked.

Now, sure, it reaching the point of murder is unusual, but varying degrees of physical assaults are fairly commonplace.

I believe this entire thread is a case of confirmation bias.

"OP basically is saying, I believe in America there is a rape culture full of male sexual entitlement and these two articles proves it."

Care to point out a citation on the claim "varying degrees of physical assaults are fairly commonplace"?
http://womensenews.org/story/060929/domestic-violence-dangerous-trends-innovative-responses#.VDWiQsVdX_4

Across the United States, up to 3 million girls and women will be physically abused this year according to the opening line of this article in Women's News. Out of a population of 157.2 million, correct? This equals 2% of the female population. Still to many, but is it "fairly commonplace"?


Rape is down since the 90's according to crime statistics.

The Clery Act requires colleges to report annually the count of certain crimes that happen on their campuses. To determine the number of crimes reported, as well as the rate of their occurrence, The Dispatch and the Student Press Law Center analyzed 12 years of crime statistics that colleges with on-campus housing reported to the U.S. Department of Education. Most schools claim zero sexual assaults on campus. Zero in official federal reports on campus.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/pages/data/crime-safety/campus-crime/index.html?appSession=379476062597800

Now some critics like the ones in the article linked have alleged that the schools are cooking these official reports. Until such a case of the colleges in question cooking the books is proved how about we take the official reports and stop with the moral panic stuff?

 

[dragoongfa]

Not seeing much distinction, unless you are saying it shouldn't be your job to condemn the victim.

Humans are social creatures and every widespread phenomenon of unsocial behavior always comes back to how society neglected to counter that behavior.

The instances of not reporting crimes to the police it is unsocial behavior and it is widespread enough to cause societal issues. As such yes, it should be something that the state should look into in order for this to be countered. Educative programs at schools, advertisements at media and all that stuff.

Some may see it as victim blaming, especially if it is not handled by people who regularly come in contact with victims. However it is the only way for unreported crimes to stop happening and thus remain unpunished.

Unfortunately, they are not without truth. Hell, police officers are drawn from the same society as everyone else, if there's a way to ensure all police are on the level, why can't this apply to everyone else? Society can't have a problem with any given crime without it being reflected in the police, surely.

Yes police officers are human and part of society but unlike the rest of society however they are subject to scrutiny by higher, democratically elected, authorities.

In the end it all comes back to society and how invested society is in tackling such issues.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Across the United States, up to 3 million girls and women will be physically abused this year according to the opening line of this article in Women's News. Out of a population of 157.2 million, correct? This equals 2% of the female population. Still to many, but is it "fairly commonplace"?

I'd call 2% a year fairly commonplace, yes.

Humans are social creatures and every widespread phenomenon of unsocial behavior always comes back to how society neglected to counter that behavior.

The instances of not reporting crimes to the police it is unsocial behavior and it is widespread enough to cause societal issues. As such yes, it should be something that the state should look into in order for this to be countered. Educative programs at schools, advertisements at media and all that stuff.

Some may see it as victim blaming, especially if it is not handled by people who regularly come in contact with victims. However it is the only way for unreported crimes to stop happening and thus remain unpunished.

The only way? How about attacking the reasons why victims don't report, instead of attacking the victims?

Attacking the victims is not a particularly good way to get people to admit to being victims.

 

[Plunkies]

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/10/mother_of_three_killed_in_detroit_after_rejecting_a_man_s_advances.html

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/10/woman_s_throat_slashed_in_queens_after_turning_down_date.html?wpisrc=mostpopular

(rubs forehead) Ok, its depressingly not new that this happens far too often, but all kinds of horrible that we've had two examples now in a matter of days.

All I have going through my head is the saying 'A mans worst fear is being laughed at - a woman's worst fear is being murdered'

This is like assuming there's a zombie apocalypse when it was all the rage to report on bath salt incidents.

You know, I could point out that women also commit crimes. But don't worry, men will receive 63% harsher sentences for the exact same crimes. Because of the patriarchy, I can only assume.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html

"Starr also found that females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted."

Like, for example, this woman, who slit a cop's throat on camera and was acquitted....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyvIif2YL9o

 

[dragoongfa]

Humans are social creatures and every widespread phenomenon of unsocial behavior always comes back to how society neglected to counter that behavior.

The instances of not reporting crimes to the police it is unsocial behavior and it is widespread enough to cause societal issues. As such yes, it should be something that the state should look into in order for this to be countered. Educative programs at schools, advertisements at media and all that stuff.

Some may see it as victim blaming, especially if it is not handled by people who regularly come in contact with victims. However it is the only way for unreported crimes to stop happening and thus remain unpunished.

The only way? How about attacking the reasons why victims don't report, instead of attacking the victims?

Attacking the victims is not a particularly good way to get people to admit to being victims.

Read again what I wrote because that's what I was saying at the first place...

Such a campaign is by definition an attack on the reasons as to why victims don't report crimes committed against them.

EDIT: I will clarify further:

Such a campaign is by default aimed at victims, future victims and the family of victims that don't report crimes.

Pointing out to the above the reasons as to why unreported crimes should be reported is not an attack on the victims but on the unsocial behavior behind the non reporting of crimes.

 

[shootthebandit]

All I have going through my head is the saying 'A mans worst fear is being laughed at - a woman's worst fear is being murdered'

Im pretty sure everyone's worst (rational) fear is being murdered. I dont walk down the street thinking "I might get murdered today" and at the same time I dont walk down the street thinking "someone might laugh at me" but if I had to choose between someone laughing at me and someone forcing a blade between my ribcage I think the former seems like a good deal

What about someone being laughed at/ridiculed to the point in which they take their own life? Surely thats got to be at least on par with murder and actually pretty serious. The fact that some fears being laughed at is probably a very unignorable self-esteem issue which could be pretty damaging

 

[DC_78]

Across the United States, up to 3 million girls and women will be physically abused this year according to the opening line of this article in Women's News. Out of a population of 157.2 million, correct? This equals 2% of the female population. Still to many, but is it "fairly commonplace"?

I'd call 2% a year fairly commonplace, yes.

Drunk driving accidents are commonplace. Three in every ten Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related crash. Or 94.8 million Americans.
Shoplifting is fairly commonplace. There are approximately 27 million shoplifters (or 1 in 11 people) in our nation today.

Not so common place? In the United States, about 7 percent of the male population or about 10.5 million men are colorblind.

So 3 million girls and women getting abused per year? Not so commonplace and no reason for the moral panic stuff.

Take precautions because people can be psychos, but sensationalising this is just as bad as the media sensationalising mass murders. I understand this is the cause du jour of some folks and that is great. But please just keep it within a logical perspective.

 

[Jux]

Sadly, this is not completly unsurprising in a culture that celebrates both men feeling entitled to women and violence. Also sad (but equally predictable) is the chorus of 'what about the menz?' talking points trotted out to derail any kind of meaningful discussion.

 

[KokujinTensai]

Al Green had boiling hot grits thrown on him by his woman
Karla Homolka kidnapped and murdered people and the PoS walks free today
Lizzie Borden
Recently in my neighborhood a woman murdered her ex because he won custody of their children

Lets not sensationalize this people. Evil people kill others everyday for various reasons.

 

[Angelblaze]

Across the United States, up to 3 million girls and women will be physically abused this year according to the opening line of this article in Women's News. Out of a population of 157.2 million, correct? This equals 2% of the female population. Still to many, but is it "fairly commonplace"?

I'd call 2% a year fairly commonplace, yes.

Drunk driving accidents are commonplace. Three in every ten Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related crash. Or 94.8 million Americans.
Shoplifting is fairly commonplace. There are approximately 27 million shoplifters (or 1 in 11 people) in our nation today.

Not so common place? In the United States, about 7 percent of the male population or about 10.5 million men are colorblind.

So 3 million girls and women getting abused per year? Not so commonplace and no reason for the moral panic stuff.

Take precautions because people can be psychos, but sensationalising this is just as bad as the media sensationalising mass murders. I understand this is the cause du jour of some folks and that is great. But please just keep it within a logical perspective.

I'd like to point out that your counter example isn't 'per year' - 7 percent are colorblind, they will be for life. And next year, it'll still be 7 percent.

3 percent *per year* stacks up. After 10 years its already a third of the population - and that's not assuming that your numbers are thrown off by women who don't report due to self blaming, threats, etc.

 

[kyp275]

Sadly, this is not completly unsurprising in a culture that celebrates both men feeling entitled to women and violence. Also sad (but equally predictable) is the chorus of 'what about the menz?' talking points trotted out to derail any kind of meaningful discussion.

A post that's framed in an imflammatory and sexist manner like the OP has about as much chance at creating "meaningful discussion" as someone who grabs a couple of news articles about murders in Detroit and makes some comments about how terrible black people are.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Al Green had boiling hot grits thrown on him by his woman
Karla Homolka kidnapped and murdered people and the PoS walks free today
Lizzie Borden
Recently in my neighborhood a woman murdered her ex because he won custody of their children

Lets not sensationalize this people. Evil people kill others everyday for various reasons.

Pretty much this, right here.

It's as simple as "Yes, there are psychopaths out there". Gender doesn't really play a role at all. I'm pretty sure all of our worst fears can include getting murdered.

 

[DC_78]

Across the United States, up to 3 million girls and women will be physically abused this year according to the opening line of this article in Women's News. Out of a population of 157.2 million, correct? This equals 2% of the female population. Still to many, but is it "fairly commonplace"?

I'd call 2% a year fairly commonplace, yes.

Drunk driving accidents are commonplace. Three in every ten Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related crash. Or 94.8 million Americans.
Shoplifting is fairly commonplace. There are approximately 27 million shoplifters (or 1 in 11 people) in our nation today.

Not so common place? In the United States, about 7 percent of the male population or about 10.5 million men are colorblind.

So 3 million girls and women getting abused per year? Not so commonplace and no reason for the moral panic stuff.

Take precautions because people can be psychos, but sensationalising this is just as bad as the media sensationalising mass murders. I understand this is the cause du jour of some folks and that is great. But please just keep it within a logical perspective.

I'd like to point out that your counter example isn't 'per year' - 7 percent are colorblind, they will be for life. And next year, it'll still be 7 percent.

3 percent *per year* stacks up. After 10 years its already a third of the population - and that's not assuming that your numbers are thrown off by women who don't report due to self blaming, threats, etc.

By your logic there, no one that is colorblind will die or be born either. Or that those abused are not repeat victims of abuse from a family member, friend, or partner. Or that you ignored the other two statistics in my example for that one. Or that women who do not report will never be verified in any study. So any study then has to guess how many there are and well an educated guess is still a guess.

Also carrying that logic forward since I noticed that the article I quoted was from 2006 we should already have 1/3 of women being victims of physical abuse. And 1/3 of men being abusers! Quick ladies lock your doors! Only travel in groups of three or more. Do not trust that nice man next to you he could be a monster. Yadda yadda yadda.

My point is there is no study that says this is on the upswing. No crime statistics that says this is an epidemic. This is manufactured moral panic. And if you have these phantom studies from a credible source like the FBI or something with a nice wide database, please do share. So I may join in. I have a 7 year old daughter to protect after all from 1/3 of all males in America. Ugh.

 

[Ryotknife]

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/10/mother_of_three_killed_in_detroit_after_rejecting_a_man_s_advances.html

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/10/woman_s_throat_slashed_in_queens_after_turning_down_date.html?wpisrc=mostpopular

(rubs forehead) Ok, its depressingly not new that this happens far too often, but all kinds of horrible that we've had two examples now in a matter of days.

All I have going through my head is the saying 'A mans worst fear is being laughed at - a woman's worst fear is being murdered'

EDIT:

That conclusion is pretty terrible when you consider the fact that men usually make up about 70 to 80 percent of homicide victims worldwide...

That conclusion is a reference to a quote from writer Margret Atwood when she was talking about what men fear from women vs what women fear from men. So its pretty relevant to the discussion.

Gonna copy and paste this in here as I should have made the context of the saying/quote clearer to explain why it had been in my thoughts regarding these events.

It would be more accurate to say that a woman's biggest fear is rape and a man's biggest fear is being murdered seeing how women are 5x more likely to be raped and men are 3.5x more likely to be murdered.