Woman murdered for rejecting a man, another gets her throat slashed for the same.

[WhiteNachos]

It's comforting to dismiss people you disagree with, isn't it.

I'm sorry WhiteNachos, but I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you referring to something you believe I inferred? Or are you just randomly starting a sidebar conversation with me?

Everytime I heard people call others Angry Young X, it's always to dismiss them.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Everytime I heard people call others Angry Young X, it's always to dismiss them.

Really? It's never to describe them?

If people are both angry and young, would it not be an apt descriptor? Do you find there is an inherent value judgment in either the emotional state of "anger" or the physical state of "youth"?

I mean I'm all for being sensitive towards perceived slights but I'm honestly not certain where the dismissal is here.

 

[WhiteNachos]

All I have going through my head is the saying 'A mans worst fear is being laughed at - a woman's worst fear is being murdered'

This saying is stupid, belittling to EVERYONE involved, and inaccurate.

My worst fear is that I will wake up one day to find that everyone and everything I ever thought I knew was, in fact, a lie and that I had made it all up in an attempt to keep myself from knowing that I'm actually a serial killer in an insane asylum.

My second is that a woman will accuse me of raping her child thereby destroying my life, livelihood and any chance at a happy life.

My third is that I will be forced to violate my self-imposed oath of celibacy, dooming me to burn for all eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

My fourth is dieing before completing a novel. Fifth is that I'll commit suicide, then comes wasps, needles, and drowning.

How is this " belittling"? I have been attacked my multiple men, have been stalked by men, Have had to put a man in prison for actually trying to kill me and the only reason I am here now is my neighbor stopped him and was stabbed in the process. Women fear these things because of our experiences. The reason women fear this is because this is not some thing you read about on the news, most of us have been attacked by men or has had someone close to us who has. Of course I am afraid for myself and others due to these things. I was violently raped, my best friend was raped, my sister was raped, my grandmother was raped, ALL by different men... this is not some uncommon thing at all is the problem. It is very scary telling a guy "No" because of how many guys respond when you do. Trying to make them understand that you do not want relations with them without them becoming angry is often difficult to do.

I am trying to understand why you think it would belittling to admit that I have nightmares about being attacked now due to events that happened. Why would saying that is your worst fear be belittling?

Saying all women fear it is belittling to women. Saying no men fear it is insultingly inaccurate.

 

[WhiteNachos]

Everytime I heard people call others Angry Young X, it's always to dismiss them.

Really? It's never to describe them?

If people are both angry and young, would it not be an apt descriptor? Do you find there is an inherent value judgment in either the emotional state of "anger" or the physical state of "youth"?

I mean I'm all for being sensitive towards perceived slights but I'm honestly not certain where the dismissal is here.

Combine Angry and young and you can paint them as teenagers who get angry about the world but don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Adam Lester]

May I press you on this point for a citation? I have read that conviction rates for rape compared to reported rapes are in the 6-12% range but that conviction rates for rape trials are in the 50-58% range. The conviction rate is tiny compared to rapes that are reported but not in comparison to actual trials. In other words it seems that in many cases where rape is reported, there is simply no evidence or not enough evidence to go to trial, but in cases where there is enough, the conviction rates are on par or higher than other crimes. So to say many juries would acquit because the conviction rate is tiny would be wrong. Juries convict in rape cases as much or more than other crimes.

True, I should have expanded on that point a lot more. It's not just lack of evidence leading to lack of trial, it's lack of effort. For example, rape kits being tossed in a warehouse to be forgotten about rather than tested, though there are moves to do something about this.

However, yes, if it should get to trial, there's a reasonable chance of conviction. I still say that "no jury on earth will say otherwise" is totally wrong, though.

So, what's your solution without possibly calling me a rapist (I hope you realize how fucked up that is, by the way)?

Solution for who? If you mean for you personally, there isn't one. Lots of women are raped, and if they hadn't considered you/every other man possible rapists, they are told it's their fault (though it's generally unfair to do so until then, excepting if the man fits a scary stereotype). You can't change that.

If you mean for society, it could change either or both of those. Not easily, or quickly, but things can be done.

In the meantime, yes, you and every other not-rapist man is stuck with the problem. Women with a more serious one, of course, but nobody is winning except the rapists.

So, you're justifying stereotypes and assumptions made about individuals based on their physical characteristics for the actions of a few sharing similar key features, and those labeled with negative stereotypes have no right to speak on the basis that the victims of those crimes are the ones who suffer.

I think you got lost on your way to the Stormfront message boards.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Combine Angry and young and you can paint them as teenagers who get angry about the world but don't know what they're talking about.

Well, no, it "paints" them as angry and young.

Anything else you are bringing to that is something you're projecting onto it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

So, you're justifying stereotypes and assumptions made about individuals based on their physical characteristics for the actions of a few sharing similar key features, and those labeled with negative stereotypes have no right to speak on the basis that the victims of those crimes are the ones who suffer.

No. That's why I didn't say anything of the kind.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**snip**

I'm not sure it's worth it anymore, BG. This thread has gone full retard. *

If people want to get angry and take quotes from authors not only know for but famous for hyperbole as an attack, well, at this point I'm happy to let them.

* To prevent anyone from taking that comment literally, I would like to point out that it is a reference to the 2008 film "Tropic Thunder."

 

[xaszatm]

Except I'm not talking about about news on an international/national level. When stories like these reaches there, it's usually for ratings. I'm talking about news on a local level in city newspapers. The types of stories that don't always make the front page of the local news and instead is in the criminal/justice section of the news media. When you collect these types of stories, stories that don't reach the mainstream audience, you notice that these types of murders happen often and with regularity. And these are just the stories in America/Western Europe and not the other cases of this happening in other countries. It is a trend.

So it DOES happen with prevailing tendency to the point where most of these cases will be ignored by the national/international news organizations unless certain situations allow it to garner more ratings and attention.

[citation needed]

I have never heard of it happening until maybe a year ago and I've only seen 4 cases at the most.

Well, I know how much you guys hate this website, but it is used as an archive of these cases. Most parts will link to the news article of said murder/assault/rape for proof. Though, knowing you, you will probably just take one look at the website name and scream how it isn't a "resource" even though I'm telling you it's an archive of resources and better than me posting all 414 links. Keep in mind that most of these are just in America and parts of Western Europe.

http://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com/

Also, just because you haven't heard about something, doesn't mean it's actually happening. But please feel free to keep this "this thread is sexist" shtick you're doing with the other posters.

 

[Something Amyss]

Thank God the community is here to remind us that the real victim of women getting killed for daring not accept a man is white guys.

I mean I'm all for being sensitive towards perceived slights but I'm honestly not certain where the dismissal is here.

The only solution appears to be not to talk about it. Simply mentioning straight white guys is treated as though the person bringing it up started with "death to all." Tossing "angry" in the mix appears to be the equivalent of violating Godwin's Law.

 

[And Man]

It was also posted completely out of context, so you can't really get angry with people for taking it literally

I can when the context was explained on the first page by others. Some of the second page bitching even has notes that it was already explained on the first page.

IF I explained it better (and perhaps I did) then sure, I'm awesome, but the context was explained.

I'm pretty sure you're the only one that pointed out that the quote was a joke though (or that it referred specifically to asking someone out on a date). Not everyone knows who Margret Atwood is, and the OP edit stating that the quote is about "what men fear from women vs what women fear from men" could have possibly made things worse, since without the context that it's supposed to be a joke or refer specifically to asking someone on a date, it pretty much reinforces the initial interpretations of the people complaining about the quote.

Basically, you did a much better job of explaining the quote than anyone else in the topic, and if the OP had explained it as well as you did, there would be much less misunderstanding regarding it.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

This thread is hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

 

[DrOswald]

**snip**

I'm not sure it's worth it anymore, BG. This thread has gone full retard. *

If people want to get angry and take quotes from authors not only know for but famous for hyperbole as an attack, well, at this point I'm happy to let them.

* To prevent anyone from taking that comment literally, I would like to point out that it is a reference to the 2008 film "Tropic Thunder."

The problem is that so many people take that quote at face value - that it is both serious and that it is true. Such as the OP. Why else would they use that quote? This is not the first time I have seen the quote used seriously and I very much doubt it will be the last.

The fact of the matter is that the assumption of the quote, that women have significantly more to fear from men (in terms of violence) when it comes to a relationships than men do from women, has no basis in reality (or at least no evidence supporting it). But everyone and their dog takes that assumption as gospel truth. A complete disregard for evidence and reason. That is where this sort of discussion goes full retard.

 

[WhiteNachos]

Except I'm not talking about about news on an international/national level. When stories like these reaches there, it's usually for ratings. I'm talking about news on a local level in city newspapers. The types of stories that don't always make the front page of the local news and instead is in the criminal/justice section of the news media. When you collect these types of stories, stories that don't reach the mainstream audience, you notice that these types of murders happen often and with regularity. And these are just the stories in America/Western Europe and not the other cases of this happening in other countries. It is a trend.

So it DOES happen with prevailing tendency to the point where most of these cases will be ignored by the national/international news organizations unless certain situations allow it to garner more ratings and attention.

[citation needed]

I have never heard of it happening until maybe a year ago and I've only seen 4 cases at the most.

Well, I know how much you guys hate this website, but it is used as an archive of these cases. Most parts will link to the news article of said murder/assault/rape for proof. Though, knowing you, you will probably just take one look at the website name and scream how it isn't a "resource" even though I'm telling you it's an archive of resources and better than me posting all 414 links. Keep in mind that most of these are just in America and parts of Western Europe.

http://whenwomenrefuse.tumblr.com/

Also, just because you haven't heard about something, doesn't mean it's actually happening. But please feel free to keep this "this thread is sexist" shtick you're doing with the other posters.

You need statistics to show a trend. This does not show statistics.

There are blogs that have a post every times crimes are committed by black people or by Muslims or by white people to try to convince people that those people are dangerous. You can make blogs about any bizarre crime or about the crimes committed by X group because a lot of stuff goes on in the world. I could make a blog about mothers who kill their children or Asians who steal cars if I wanted to.

You want to show a trend? Show how often it happens per year. I don't see that here. I see cases from around the world, I see anecdotal evidence and I doubt every story there happened in the same year, so is it 400 something cases (some unsourced) over 1 year, 2 years, 10?

 

[WhiteNachos]

Thank God the community is here to remind us that the real victim of women getting killed for daring not accept a man is white guys.

Thank God we have you to straw man everyone so you can get on your high horse and feel superior to everyone. Where would we be if you actually addressed the arguments posted here, like contesting the idea that this is a trend or that this problem is unique to women.

Also thank god we have you to drag race into this for no reason at all when literally no one mentioned this being a problem with white people. I mean we could have a had a discussion without you vomiting your pre-baked talking points but where would that lead us?

I mean I'm all for being sensitive towards perceived slights but I'm honestly not certain where the dismissal is here.

The only solution appears to be not to talk about it. Simply mentioning straight white guys is treated as though the person bringing it up started with "death to all." Tossing "angry" in the mix appears to be the equivalent of violating Godwin's Law.

Funny you say this when nobody mentioned straight white guys, I think you just come in here assume the conversation went a certain way then insult people for things they never said.