Women and Gaming

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Twad

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CloakedOne said:
You're 100% correct about women in gaming. We need more representation of women in video games, and, preferably, that are not bitches like that **** in WET. we need women like Alex in Eternal Darkness and Joanna from Perfect Dark. Good observation and, with your help, we can correct it.
Well, if, eventually game develloppers stop using women as an object made to be bait for male gamers, with the unspoken wish that they want them to play the game with one hand..

As i saw somewhere else; 51% of your potential market is female. To satisfy one half, you alienate the other half.. or rather, you alienate them all.
Its some sort of expectation now. If there is mention of "boobies", the game will inevitably sell a lot, and get a lot of media coverage.

Seriously, im tried of seeing cleavage the size of bowling balls (if not even bigger) on female characters.. or female characters that follow the same 2-3 stereotypes that maintains them as 1 dimensional beings that are doomed to fail unless a manly man made of macho is there to save them/get sexy with them. Tired of seeing absurdly "sexy" armor in games where fights are happening all the time. Tired that a "sexy girl" seems to be the only plot point of a game.

All of this, in the name of money; "cuz if they diddnt do it, the game/product wouldnt sell well". IMHO, thats just a cheap excuse. If your game needs, in a way or another, to degrade the image of women to one of a sex object (and at the same time, take the mens for horny idiots) to be successfull, you failed.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry, needed to vent a bit.
 

Shambl3s

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The people who would play as the female characters are boys, and perverted old men. The actual girls probably won't want the extra attention.
 

lvl9000_woot

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What about the main character from Portal? She was female and people love that game. She didn't have a "huge rack" and was dressed appropriately.
 

Space Spoons

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Honestly, the whole gender thing always seemed kind of arbitrary to me, and Metroid is the clearest example. Whether or not you know Samus is actually a woman underneath the armor, the game is the same. It has, literally, no bearing on gameplay.

It's the same with Terra from Final Fantasy VI. She's a half-Esper, amnesia-striken Imperial Army deserter. The fact that she's a woman is really more of a footnote. In fact, the game would probably be mostly identical if you changed Terra from a woman to a man.

Keeping that in mind, I wouldn't oppose more strong female characters in games, but I'm not outright clamoring for them either. It's a cosmetic decision at best... Well, unless you are a woman, in which case I suppose I could understand wanting a play a character of one's own gender.
 

Axeli

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Shambl3s said:
The people who would play as the female characters are boys, and perverted old men. The actual girls probably won't want the extra attention.
I'm not a boy, or at least younger than 18, or an old man.

xzarakizraiia said:
Actually, the name "feminism" is something that is frequently debated within feminist communities because it can mistakenly give the impression that feminists only care about women or that we want to oppress men. This isn't really true; feminists desire equality, which is why I find it unlikely that feminist movements will result in a "polar opposite of chauvinism." Most feminists do not want to replace a patriarchy with a matriarchy and would stop identifying as feminists if that happened. The name is still used, though, to link current feminism with past efforts and because it is mostly focused on women (we want to give men room to create their own movement; unfortunately, most of the "men's rights" movements that have sprung up are just misogynistic and not about equality at all). Anyway, in case you couldn't tell from the first person pronouns I'm throwing around, I am a feminist. And I like to think that I'm not insane ;)

People who are going around saying that you can't be attracted to someone and respect them at the same time are basically just way oversimplifying the concept of objectification. Objectification is when someone is *only* being treated as a sex object, not as a person, and is denied autonomy.
The problem is that the matriarchalist, polar-opposite chauvinists will also tell me they are called feminists. I understand that there are feminists that genuinely believe in equality, but the name "feminism" describes the other kind much better.

Right now, when someone calls herself or himself a feminists, I have no idea which camp they belong to. The best way to figure it out is ask if they believe human history would have been better if leaders would have been all women.
 

Axeli

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lvl9000_woot said:
What about the main character from Portal? She was female and people love that game. She didn't have a "huge rack" and was dressed appropriately.
She was also not a character any more than a snail is. Player avatar would be more accurate.
 

lvl9000_woot

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Axeli said:
lvl9000_woot said:
What about the main character from Portal? She was female and people love that game. She didn't have a "huge rack" and was dressed appropriately.
She was also not a character any more than a snail is. Player avatar would be more accurate.
Then by your logic, so was Samus in Metriod Prime.
 

Aesir23

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*facepalm* Is anyone else as tired of 'women aren't being properly represented in the gaming industry' topics as I am? (No offense personally meant to the OP of course, I'm just tired of the topics in general.)

Personally, I couldn't care less about the genders of the characters, if I'm interested in a game then I'll play it.
 

Axeli

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lvl9000_woot said:
Axeli said:
lvl9000_woot said:
What about the main character from Portal? She was female and people love that game. She didn't have a "huge rack" and was dressed appropriately.
She was also not a character any more than a snail is. Player avatar would be more accurate.
Then by your logic, so was Samus in Metriod Prime.
Samus has backstory, voice actress and her writing can be found in inventory menus. She has a name. She's a silent protagonist.

Unless I missed something, the player character in Portal has none of these. You don't even see her without "looking in a mirror". There's no part where you don't control her actions or look at things from her perspecive.
She is obviously intended to be only the player.
 

ostro-whiskey

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Maybe its because its unrealistic, how many chicks are in the military ? equality is a new concept invented by liberal douchebags, chicks are only used for sex appeal because of the known links between sex and violence.

The only game I ever played with a good female character was Silent Hill 3, because it was believable.
 

nullsecjackman

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kanada514 said:
That's where you're wrong. Designers don't need to execute litterary prowesses because they only write the GDD. They have nothing to do with the story whatsoever and they usually don't give a fuck about it either. 1)

As for Steven Spielberg equivalent.
Do you think he would make a great game if he got to be in charge of one?
Do you think those two medias are alike or similar? 2)


Do you think that one of them being interactive might force a different cinematographic approach or a different approach altogether? 3)


Is it easier to create a story for a passive audience that has no control over it or for a crowd that actually plays the main protagonist's role in the story? 4)

What of the choice of protagonists? Is it easier to have the character embody a knight, marine or a grocery clerk? 5)
Because in movies it doesn't matter who the main protagonist is.
Take the movie "The Machinist" for instance. It's abvout a machinist. Who would like to play a machinist? In a movie though, it doesn't matter. The movie can be appealing nonetheless. 6)

You can't do whatever the fuck you want with game though. It's much more constrained and limited but then again, it is a completely different media (incidentaly, a media that just supplanted the movie industry in terms of revenue, so then again, there must be something they're doing right) 7).

1): Designers design. They choose the writers. What happens when the designers don't choose a good writers? they chose bad one, and you get a bad story. Also like I said, they design. They decide what story is used. I doubt Dave Jaffe just let the writers do whatever with the God of War series. You can bet he had a fair say in whatever they did. Why? because he's a designer.

2): yes and yes to the Spielberg thing. Steven Spielberg is a great producer. Meaning he knows how to find people who will make awesome stuff. Even the stuff he produces are great. Look at Boomblox and Animaniacs. A game and a cartoon. Not exactly the thing you'd expect the man who created E.T. and Schindler's List to create right? but he knows what he's doing. Those games are great because he knows how to get awesome people working with him.

also, to the differences in mediums. I'd say no. It's like art. Same principles all around. It doesn't matter if you are using a Pencil or Charcoal or paint. The same principles of how stuff is suppose to look applies, you just have to learn how to use the medium correctly

3): no, that's the great thing about limits. There's no limit to what you can do within them.

4): They are one in the same. Interactive mediums are just doing what movies and books do, telling a story. They tell a story and let you take control of the expiriance instead of just sitting there and watching, but like the artistic mediums thing, the same principles still apply. You have to make people identify with the protagonist, otherwise they won't enjoy playing him/watching him. Now when a game makes you identify with the people in the story and makes it fun to play at the same time, then it is truly good. I'm sure we can all think of a game that we love that has a great protagonist.

5): It does matter. If he or she is completely unlikable the movie/game won't be good/as enjoyable. You need to identify with protagonists. Other wise you won't care about him or what he's trying to accomplish. I've had fun games and movies be ruined by protagonists who are bitchy pricks who I hate with a passion (male and female).

6): A machinist would make a very interesting protagonist. Image running around trying to solve a mystery while building things, that would be great. It doesn't matter who the protagonist is, as long as we can identify with him. The point is not what the protagonists are, but who they are.

7): that's the point of gaming. To be able to do whatever the fuck you want. If you want to fly to the moon? hell yeah, buy a game about it. Games are about experiencing things we would never be able to experience otherwise. That's also what film is about. Film takes us to another place. So do books. They tell us tales of wonder and excitement, intrigue and danger, darkness and depression, happiness and light. That is the whole idea of story telling, incidentally, it is also the idea of games. To let us live out the experiences that we wouldn't be able to in real life. Also, Popularity and revenue have nothing to do with whether something is good or not. Otherwise twilight would be better than most of the great literary accomplishments of the past few centuries.
 

fishman279

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Oct 29, 2009
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The only problem is that Males will always play more games than women. Therefore, by appealing to the Male population, they can make more money, hence why they use "eye candy" as the female NPC's. I think this is flawed however, as I personally think that most games who have had a NORMAL woman (Not like that ***** in "Wet" or Lara Croft, God I hate her) as the playable character have gone down a storm (I'm thinking Metroid...etc). I think until Females get a higher stake in the market, this will never happen on a wide scale...Which is quite a shame IMHO.
 

lvl9000_woot

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Axeli said:
lvl9000_woot said:
Axeli said:
lvl9000_woot said:
What about the main character from Portal? She was female and people love that game. She didn't have a "huge rack" and was dressed appropriately.
She was also not a character any more than a snail is. Player avatar would be more accurate.
Then by your logic, so was Samus in Metriod Prime.
Samus has backstory, voice actress and her writing can be found in inventory menus. She has a name. She's a silent protagonist.

Unless I missed something, the player character in Portal has none of these. You don't even see her without "looking in a mirror". There's no part where you don't control her actions or look at things from her perspecive.
She is obviously intended to be only the player.
Chell does have a backstory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_(video_game)#Characters

It's true she doesn't have a voice actress but players do acknowledge the fact she is a female character.

Back on topic, I do agree that women aren't being properly represented in the gaming industry but it doesn't bother me.
 

Axeli

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lvl9000_woot said:
Axeli said:
lvl9000_woot said:
Axeli said:
lvl9000_woot said:
What about the main character from Portal? She was female and people love that game. She didn't have a "huge rack" and was dressed appropriately.
She was also not a character any more than a snail is. Player avatar would be more accurate.
Then by your logic, so was Samus in Metriod Prime.
Samus has backstory, voice actress and her writing can be found in inventory menus. She has a name. She's a silent protagonist.

Unless I missed something, the player character in Portal has none of these. You don't even see her without "looking in a mirror". There's no part where you don't control her actions or look at things from her perspecive.
She is obviously intended to be only the player.
Chell does have a backstory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_(video_game)#Characters

It's true she doesn't have a voice actress but players do acknowledge the fact she is a female character.

Back on topic, I do agree that women aren't being properly represented in the gaming industry but it doesn't bother me.
That's not a lot is it?

Regardless of what you call her, she has absolutely no personality by the nature of the character's role, so she can hardly be called a good character either. Plus her looks seem rather irrelevant considering how you hardly even see her unless you really try to.
 

TheDrunkNinja

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Jun 12, 2009
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Now, hold on, I am certain that in the first Call of Duty during the beginning campaign in Russia, one of the main playable characters was a female sniper. And in nearly every rpg that Bioware has done, you always have the choice of gender. Sure, in Mass Effect, they really focus on the male Shepard, but that doesn't mean it happens everywhere.

In fact, when you look at the gaming history, game with female protagonists often become huge franchises that everybody loves. That's not to say that games like Metroid and Tomb Raider are only good because of the female protagonist. If anything, the quality of a game should be great no matter the gender. If a game is good, it shouldn't matter whether they be male or female. Hell, if you replaced many of the main characters in Modern Warfare 2 with female soldiers, would anybody give a damn? I wouldn't. The game is kickass either way. It really shouldn't matter if one gender isn't as well represented as the other as long as the game is good.
 

funguy2121

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Gindil said:
I have no idea what TF2 is. Everybody's doing that more and more; you have to understand that on this forum you'll encounter PC gamers, PS3 gamers, 360 gamers, Wii gamers and retro gamers.

I'm all for female protagonists. That's part of what made James Cameron's early work so interesting.

Be ready for some anti-woman flaming, though. Every thread I've seen on here relating to women at all has been trolled ad nauseum.