women: drawn to the man on top of any hierarchy

[HardkorSB]

You know, when you propose a "theory", you must back it up with something concrete to make it believable.
I just pointed out the things wrong with your post and this so-called theory.
And yes, get into specifics.
Don't expect everyone to just fill in the plot holes by themselves.
You're the one who has an idea and you want to show it to others.
Don't just mention things and drop them in the next sentence.
Your theory seems less credible when you do that.

Now, let's get down to the quotes:

My primary assumption was that people would trust my summaries of these situations based on the fact that I'm privy to a lot more information than anyone here. Instead, I've got someone jumping down my throat based on his assumptions about the fact that I was constantly assuming. If anything, I was trying not to write a fucking novel so people might actually read the post and lend their opinions on this phenomenon - which certainly exists. Apparently I needed to lay out every aspect of these examples in order to convince the doubters that my life experiences are, in fact, actually happening to me.

So, you don't like the fact that I'm doing the same thing you were doing before?

Your inability to take my word on these things is asinine.

Are you telling me that I should believe everything you say without questioning it?
Sorry, wrong forum.

Should I provide detailed, personal, emotional accounts of my interactions with these individuals to prove my value statements? To a stranger on the fucking internet?

You want opinions from strangers on the internet.
You've created this topic to have a conversation with strangers on the internet.
If you don't want to know what strangers on the internet think then don't post a topic like that on an internet forum full of strangers.

From what you can tell, this "hot" girl (your words) being with my new boss is the thing that bothers me? I don't think she's attractive, especially since she's far too young for me, so that doesn't even enter into it.

So why do you care?

And my judgments about my new boss's character are, again, merge with those of my coworkers. It's a consensus opinion at this point, which is why I feel safe expressing it.

A consensus opinion, eh?
Just because most people think that way (and again, only co-workers who might hate their boss just because he's their boss) doesn't mean that it's true.
That's just not enough for me.

I'm asking you, again, as a reader, to take at face value my appraisals of these people. If you're doubting those fundamental premises of this story, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to write my life story in this thread to appease your completely unreasonable doubts.

the things you've mentioned that make your bosses douches in your eyes are subjective.
A furn off for one person is a turn on for another.
That and you don't explain anything.
Not smart or interesting, says inappropriate shit, questionable sense of humor, rates poorly in terms of appearence and wealth... this is very subjective stuff.
Just how the things I wrote about you are subjective.

Wow. Read more carefully. I'm saying that the theory of hierarchical attraction is linked to reproduction (never said sexual, that was you again - you're really bad at this btw), and that these girls almost seem like victims.

The act of reproduction is a sexual act.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a person tear into a post with more incoherent zeal. I could very easily demonstrate the values I've assigned to these people with specific details and stories. I could also seek out testimonies from other third parties. Why should I have to? I'm not going through that much trouble to appease the outrageous disbelief of someone in an internet forum.

So don't post on an internet forum.
If you're not even going to take your arguments seriously then why should I take them sreiously?
If you're doing this just for the hell of it, think of me as a person arguing with you for the hell of it.

Need I say more?

 

[Tekkawarrior]

I've had an almost identical situation, was GMing a server at some point and couldn't help but notice a girl that was suddenly super friendly and what not, it's obvious, let's not deny the fact that some women love to get in on the action.

Having said all that, I met my girlfriend on an online game, and she stayed with me, regardless if I was GM or not, she's still with me now even though I'm not even playing anymore.

Maybe coz I'm the top of my own hierarchy, consisting of just me

 

[cieply]

It's all genetics, males do it too but in case of girls it's much more obvious. We judge girls by how do they look, it takes a lot of self discipline to fight it and look further. I knew a girl, tall blonde with big, green eyes. She was stupid as hell but god dammit, every time she spoke to me my brain would just turn off. You can't help it. And even if a girl has a great character, if you are not attracted to her you will end up only as friends. Same goes for girls. It's just that instead of looks, they are attracted to strength and everything that represents it in the modern world. Again, she might like you, but if she is not attracted to you you will end up only as friends.

Now of course what defines "strength" for a girl is a really complicated thing and depends on her intelligence. If a girl is silly (and mind you she still can be fun and cool, just... well... not intelligent) than she can fall for a guild master or a manager. Smarter girls tend to go for intelligence as it usually promises stability (another important thing in the equation), trust and can pay off in the future. But make no mistake, no girl will enjoy a company of a stupid, poor and depressed man. You have to have something and she has to know about it.

Of course not everyone is as smart or strong or rich to get girls jumping all over him so we often have to elbow our way into the girl's head. Here comes the confidence. Another quality that asshats have plenty of. If you are an alpha male in your own mindset, many girls will fall for that. Confidence is the greatest aphrodisiac. Unfortunately, only intelligent girls can see that some of it is just an asshole-ish posse.

Showing sense of humor is also putting you in a dominant position. If you can joke a lot it shows that you have a lot of self distance and it's harder to break your spirit. Again, a quality of strength that girls are attracted to.

I'm sorry but probably the girls you wrote about were just not intelligent to look past it or maybe they don't care and like being controlled by their instincts.
Also I take that you was interested in those girls, so remember that if you like someone, it's much harder to admit their flaws.

 

[BonsaiK]

things

This is a thread made for BonsaiK's Scientific responses methinks.

Women tend to prefer confidence over wallflowery, clingy, insecure guys. That's fairly universal. Now, it takes a certain amount of confidence to be a leader of any type. The amount of actual power is irrelevant, hence the guy leading the MMORPG guild did just as well as the real-life boss. Women see the display of confidence and are attracted to it not because they necessarily care about that group of people, but because the evidence of displayed confidence indicates that the guy may also be confident in other, more important areas that might actually matter to her (think about it). It's not "being a slut" (pots and kettles in most cases anyway), it's just good common sense.

 

[GuyWithABeard]

You only just discover this now?

To put it bluntly, its the same old thing every day, we see this awesome girl with a bangin' body and yet they're with some douche with the emotional depth of the shallow end at a local pool.

We always think the same thing, "Surely I'd be better for her then he could be" but for some reason there's always something that attracts females to them, and that my friends is unexplainable, theres no theory or anything to it, its either just bad timing or the girl's being as emotionally dim-whitted as they are.

They all see the light sooner or later, and it hits them like a ton of bricks.

 

[Insanum]

things

This is a thread made for BonsaiK's Scientific responses methinks.

Women tend to prefer confidence over wallflowery, clingy, insecure guys. That's fairly universal. Now, it takes a certain amount of confidence to be a leader of any type. The amount of actual power is irrelevant, hence the guy leading the MMORPG guild did just as well as the real-life boss. Women see the display of confidence and are attracted to it not because they necessarily care about that group of people, but because the evidence of displayed confidence indicates that the guy may also be confident in other, more important areas that might actually matter to her (think about it). It's not "being a slut" (pots and kettles in most cases anyway), it's just good common sense.

See?

Its all clear now.
/thread.

 

[Marasmic]

words

Agreed a small golf clap for you sir.

words

The phrase, "beware of the sound of 1 hand clapping" comes to mind. You've basically come to the conclusion that simply because you don't like your boss, no one could be attracted to him and that this girl is simply in it for his position. Have you tried looking past your own opinion of your boss and tried to find what she could be attracted to rather than claiming that she's materialistic and driven simply by hormones? This is at best sexist and at worst a very negative world view that your promoting here.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

You know, when you propose a "theory", you must back it up with something concrete to make it believable.
I just pointed out the things wrong with your post and this so-called theory.
And yes, get into specifics.
Don't expect everyone to just fill in the plot holes by themselves.
You're the one who has an idea and you want to show it to others.
Don't just mention things and drop them in the next sentence.
Your theory seems less credible when you do that.

Not a theory. Look this shit up. It's fairly obvious, from an evolutionary standpoint, why some women behave in this fashion. Proving as much was never the purpose of my original post. Why you've taken it upon yourself to challenge or disprove the basic and highly personal premises of my post is beyond me. I'm not some thick, myopic train wreck (heh) looking for validation. I'm looking for similar stories or experiences. I don't need to have credibility when I say my boss is a douche or a girl I know is nice. If you're going to doubt me outright, with no real reason to do so other than your own refusal to accept at face value anything someone tells you (about themselves, no less), I can't even begin to understand how to talk to you.

So, you don't like the fact that I'm doing the same thing you were doing before?

You're not doing the same thing I was doing before. I made statements about people I've interacted with in the real world. You doubted the accuracy of those statements on the basis of fuck all. It's intentional, willful obtusery on your part. Very typical of the internet.

Are you telling me that I should believe everything you say without questioning it?
Sorry, wrong forum.

I'm not telling you I shot JFK. I'm not telling you aliens are real. I'm not telling you Jesus Christ exists, visited me last night, and beat me in scrabble. I'm saying my boss is a douche and some girl I know is pretty cool. If you need video clips demonstrating as much, again... I can't even begin to figure out how to talk to you. Do you walk around telling everyone they're full of shit all the time?

You want opinions from strangers on the internet.
You've created this topic to have a conversation with strangers on the internet.
If you don't want to know what strangers on the internet think then don't post a topic like that on an internet forum full of strangers.

If you're acknowledging that the internet has it's share of tossers, and that you are one such tosser, I understand my mistake.

So why do you care?

Because it's interesting. And some people responded without being unnecessarily confrontational and doubtful for no good reason whatsoever, so it obviously interests others as well.

A consensus opinion, eh?
Just because most people think that way (and again, only co-workers who might hate their boss just because he's their boss) doesn't mean that it's true.
That's just not enough for me.

I really don't get it, guy. Do you enter every thread in which someone has made any sort of subjective value statement relating specifically, and exclusively, to someone or something they know just to immediately doubt the truth of what they're saying? My mom's nice. Would you like some fucking proof? I'm not writing a term paper here. I'm soliciting feedback on a phenomenon I've witnessed a handful of times, and I gave examples to illustrate what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to prove the validity of anything to anyone - that part of the thread never took place.

the things you've mentioned that make your bosses douches in your eyes are subjective.
A furn off for one person is a turn on for another.
That and you don't explain anything.
Not smart or interesting, says inappropriate shit, questionable sense of humor, rates poorly in terms of appearence and wealth... this is very subjective stuff.
Just how the things I wrote about you are subjective.

Good lord. They are very subjective things, obviously - and the consensus opinion from everyone I talk to (and I mean everyone, from his peers to his bosses to his subordinates) is the same. I don't have to post his fucking picture, his stock portfolio, his IQ, and a series of bad jokes or stupid things he's said to prove his character to you. Or at least, I shouldn't have to - because I don't see why it is remotely necessary to doubt me. We're not competing or debating here. You're just storming in and saying I'm full of shit for no other reason than to be a dick.

The act of reproduction is a sexual act.

And I'm sure that's precisely the connotation you were attaching to it when you put it right next to reproduction in a sentence. You're not putting words in my mouth. You're just redundant. Noted.

So don't post on an internet forum.
If you're not even going to take your arguments seriously then why should I take them sreiously?
If you're doing this just for the hell of it, think of me as a person arguing with you for the hell of it.

That's exactly what you've been the entire time. There was no case, debate, argument, whatever you want to call it. I wasn't setting out to convince anyone of anything. You stumbled in here, possibly drunk, to pick a fight. You're a pointless contrarian. That's it.

I'm rather surprised. Seems everyone who read the OP had a preconceived bone to pick. I don't pine for these girls. I'm not projecting or making shit up about these guys. Hell, in one of the examples, the guy WAS me. I'm not saying all girls are like this, or that all girls react the same way to these feelings. I was simply wondering if other people feel, as I do, that it's kind of sad to see how powerfully we're affected by drives that might not even be serving our best interests. See: shacking up with the leader of a virtual army. Not exactly the fitness indicator it seems to be, especially when you see what most GMs actually look like.

 

[BonsaiK]

It's not "being a slut"

You are right. The correct term is "whore" so it makes them whores.
Selling yourself for money or a status boost is the definition of being a whore regardless of their delusional reasons.

I guess that makes me a whore because I work for a living.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Awesome comic, but I feel I need to stress something once again: I WAS the guy, or "jerk" if you prefer, in one of these instances! This isn't about jealousy or the eternal suffering of the nice guy. That's not to say I'm not a nice guy around girls, because I am. But I'm currently dating someone who was not previously my friend, so how does that "fit"...

Incidentally, jerks attract women because they sometimes confuse "not giving a shit" for confidence, selfishness for independence, and unpredictability for spontaneity. Women see bits and pieces of the things they really want - and jerks are usually on their best behavior early, so it's a perfect trap. In other words, assholes are frequently men who have taken the most attractive qualities of their gender too far.

On the flip side, "nice guys" frequently fail to demonstrate enough of these traits. Surprise, surprise: it's all about moderation!

 

[Marasmic]

It's not "being a slut"

You are right. The correct term is "whore" so it makes them whores.
Selling yourself for money or a status boost is the definition of being a whore regardless of their delusional reasons.

I guess that makes me a whore because I work for a living.

Only if you're a woman of course.

Spoiler

You know, when you propose a "theory", you must back it up with something concrete to make it believable.
I just pointed out the things wrong with your post and this so-called theory.
And yes, get into specifics.
Don't expect everyone to just fill in the plot holes by themselves.
You're the one who has an idea and you want to show it to others.
Don't just mention things and drop them in the next sentence.
Your theory seems less credible when you do that.

Not a theory. Look this shit up. It's fairly obvious, from an evolutionary standpoint, why some women behave in this fashion. Proving as much was never the purpose of my original post. Why you've taken it upon yourself to challenge or disprove the basic and highly personal premises of my post is beyond me. I'm not some thick, myopic train wreck (heh) looking for validation. I'm looking for similar stories or experiences. I don't need to have credibility when I say my boss is a douche or a girl I know is nice. If you're going to doubt me outright, with no real reason to do so other than your own refusal to accept at face value anything someone tells you (about themselves, no less), I can't even begin to understand how to talk to you.

So, you don't like the fact that I'm doing the same thing you were doing before?

You're not doing the same thing I was doing before. I made statements about people I've interacted with in the real world. You doubted the accuracy of those statements on the basis of fuck all. It's intentional, willful obtusery on your part. Very typical of the internet.

Are you telling me that I should believe everything you say without questioning it?
Sorry, wrong forum.

I'm not telling you I shot JFK. I'm not telling you aliens are real. I'm not telling you Jesus Christ exists, visited me last night, and beat me in scrabble. I'm saying my boss is a douche and some girl I know is pretty cool. If you need video clips demonstrating as much, again... I can't even begin to figure out how to talk to you. Do you walk around telling everyone they're full of shit all the time?

You want opinions from strangers on the internet.
You've created this topic to have a conversation with strangers on the internet.
If you don't want to know what strangers on the internet think then don't post a topic like that on an internet forum full of strangers.

If you're acknowledging that the internet has it's share of tossers, and that you are one such tosser, I understand my mistake.

[quot]So why do you care?

Because it's interesting. And some people responded without being unnecessarily confrontational and doubtful for no good reason whatsoever, so it obviously interests others as well.

A consensus opinion, eh?
Just because most people think that way (and again, only co-workers who might hate their boss just because he's their boss) doesn't mean that it's true.
That's just not enough for me.

I really don't get it, guy. Do you enter every thread in which someone has made any sort of subjective value statement relating specifically, and exclusively, to someone or something they know just to immediately doubt the truth of what they're saying? My mom's nice. Would you like some fucking proof? I'm not writing a term paper here. I'm soliciting feedback on a phenomenon I've witnessed a handful of times, and I gave examples to illustrate what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to prove the validity of anything to anyone - that part of the thread never took place.

the things you've mentioned that make your bosses douches in your eyes are subjective.
A furn off for one person is a turn on for another.
That and you don't explain anything.
Not smart or interesting, says inappropriate shit, questionable sense of humor, rates poorly in terms of appearence and wealth... this is very subjective stuff.
Just how the things I wrote about you are subjective.

Good lord. They are very subjective things, obviously - and the consensus opinion from everyone I talk to (and I mean everyone, from his peers to his bosses to his subordinates) is the same. I don't have to post his fucking picture, his stock portfolio, his IQ, and a series of bad jokes or stupid things he's said to prove his character to you. Or at least, I shouldn't have to - because I don't see why it is remotely necessary to doubt me. We're not competing or debating here. You're just storming in and saying I'm full of shit for no other reason than to be a dick.

The act of reproduction is a sexual act.

And I'm sure that's precisely the connotation you were attaching to it when you put it right next to reproduction in a sentence. You're not putting words in my mouth. You're just redundant. Noted.

So don't post on an internet forum.
If you're not even going to take your arguments seriously then why should I take them sreiously?
If you're doing this just for the hell of it, think of me as a person arguing with you for the hell of it.

That's exactly what you've been the entire time. There was no case, debate, argument, whatever you want to call it. I wasn't setting out to convince anyone of anything. You stumbled in here, possibly drunk, to pick a fight. You're a pointless contrarian. That's it.[/quote]

It honestly sounds like you're asspained because he's disagreeing with you. What did you want from him specifically? If you come onto an open internet forum and very forcefully state your opinion people are going to disagree with you. You didn't open a debate or a discussion. No, instead you basically said, "my boss is a douche and here's my opinion about my boss and his girlfriend(who I may or may not be in love with)". Also, you can't bend science to fit your argument. If you want to make this a scientific debate about women and the psychology of attraction then do so, but take your opinion out of it.

 

[Rick1940]

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned the magic word: HYPERGAMY.

http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/2009/10/its-all-about-hypergamy.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy

It used to be taken for granted that women were hypergamous by nature. Nowadays some people dispute the claim.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200706/ten-politically-incorrect-truths-about-human-nature

 

[SonicWaffle]

[Really? Femnazis are hardly known for their rationality.
Take this for example [http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html].
Femnazis are just hate filled bigots who could not care less about womans rights. Now they just want to blame everything on men and insult those women who do not live up to their standards. For example my sister chose to be a housewife and got insulted by a femnazi friend of hers.
Feminists stopped being relevant many years ago and now do more damage to womans causes than anything else. Not only that but their petty whining is a insult to the real feminists who struggled for equality.
Hardly seems rational now does it.

You are confusing feminist with extremist feminists. Believe it or not, it is possible to be feminist and not hate all men. In fact, I'd say the number of extremist feminists is declining, because nobody takes them seriously. Ever read the SCUM manifesto? It's a joke. Even a feminist reading it would agree.

As for linking to Allecto, come on. I think the internet has wised up enough to realise that the blog is either posted by a very patient troll, or by a seriously damaged woman. If you think extremists like that represent feminism, maybe you could stand to do a little more reading. Or are you the kind of person who thinks all Muslims are terrorists because some Muslims have been involved with terrorism? You're making that exact assumption.

 

[Rick1940]

Not a theory. Look this shit up. It's fairly obvious, from an evolutionary standpoint, why some women behave in this fashion.

The problem with trying to communicate fairly obvious things over the Internet is that we don't have much common ground and we don't have an incentive to agree.

If you try to talk about this as a student in an anthropology department, the professors have an incentive to agree to obvious things because they are part of the same department. Teamwork is in their long-term interest.

People on Internet forums usually lack the same sense of common ground and long-term common interest.

This makes the "obvious" hard to agree upon.

 

[Rick1940]

Women are all about owning people.

There are more than three billion women on the planet. They're not ALL about owning people.

Some of them are more interested in owning shoes, for example.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

It honestly sounds like you're asspained because he's disagreeing with you. What did you want from him specifically? If you come onto an open internet forum and very forcefully state your opinion people are going to disagree with you. You didn't open a debate or a discussion. No, instead you basically said, "my boss is a douche and here's my opinion about my boss and his girlfriend(who I may or may not be in love with)". Also, you can't bend science to fit your argument. If you want to make this a scientific debate about women and the psychology of attraction then do so, but take your opinion out of it.

I wasn't stating an opinion at all. I was stating my experiences, the commonly held theory that backs up my experiences, and soliciting any similar experiences or takes on my conclusions about them. I wasn't looking for people to infer all sorts of bullshit about the specific bits and pieces of my stories.

Oh, you hate your boss like everyone else but he's probably not so bad! No, he's bad. My current boss laughs when we talk about the old one.

Oh, you were just in love with the girl and you're jealous! No. She was very sweet, and everyone liked her, but I'm not cutting myself because she's gone. I have a gf.

If your point, along with the original agitator, is that an open internet forum is going to produce completely unnecessary and needlessly aggressive opposition to absolutely anything a person posts, even if it takes the form of statements about the facts of his own life that aren't even being put up for debate, then congratulations on demoting this community to the level of "average internet forum"... ?

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Not a theory. Look this shit up. It's fairly obvious, from an evolutionary standpoint, why some women behave in this fashion.

The problem with trying to communicate fairly obvious things over the Internet is that we don't have much common ground and we don't have an incentive to agree.

If you try to talk about this as a student in an anthropology department, the professors have an incentive to agree to obvious things because they are part of the same department. Teamwork is in their long-term interest.

People on Internet forums usually lack the same sense of common ground and long-term common interest.

This makes the "obvious" hard to agree upon.

I agree with this, to an extent. What do you do when people start doubting basic statements about the people in your life for no good reason? Should I have phrased everything in hypothetical absolutes so as to avoid the trap of arguing about the veracity of my appraisals of real life people with other people who will never meet them?