Worried About Dark Souls 2

[gavinmcinns]

I am. Very worried.

I'm concerned the most about the level design. It looks like they forgot all the great techniques they learned in making the first two games. Granted, I've only seen about an hour or two worth of the game, it's still enough to make me fret for the direction they went in. I still cant fathom their decision to wrest directorial control of the game from Miyazaki. It seems the world is backwards. I don't care what has been said in the press releases, this was not his decision.

What I've seen is bland and boring. The level design is half the game and it just seems like they didn't put any thought into it. Level design in the original souls game was full of intent. Every tree, every tower, ever corridor was placed with care to create it's unique atmosphere. The beta level of DS2 just looks like a hodgey podgey mess created by amateur level designers.

Let me know if you agree or think I'm full of shit. I hope that I'm wrong because I love this series and I don't want to stop loving it.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I thought the level design in dark souls was...kind of awful in places.

Hated the depths, hated blight town, hated running all over the rooftops in anor lando, and really hated any point in the game where you were asked to do platforming.

I agree with Yahtzee when he said that Dark Souls looks like they came up with the level designs first, and then figured out what to do with them, because some of the areas are just absolute nonsense.

Still a great game, with a lot of wonderful aesthetics and atmosphere.

 

[gavinmcinns]

I thought the level design in dark souls was...kind of awful in places.

Hated the depths, hated blight town, hated running all over the rooftops in anor lando, and really hated any point in the game where you were asked to do platforming.

I agree with Yahtzee when he said that Dark Souls looks like they came up with the level designs first, and then figured out what to do with them, because some of the areas are just absolute nonsense.

Still a great game, with a lot of wonderful aesthetics and atmosphere.

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen. The depths was labyrinthine and required intense focus. If you prance and frolic through the depths you're gonna have a bad time. Platforming is only hard until you get a feel for the distances and the limits of where you can stand.

Blight town was so cool, the idea of going under the depths to find a whole village of horrors is just cool. Framedrop was an issue, but I think the whingeing over it is too much.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole? The level design is solid but hardly anything to gasp at.

I mean, I guess it's possible you've played like...three games. That would also explain this reaction.

 

[shrekfan246]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole?

It does seem that way. It's not hard to understand why detractors are always like "That doesn't sound enjoyable" whenever you look at the things people spout out about Dark Souls.

OT: I hardly think a demo is a good basis to judge what should theoretically be a massively sprawling action-RPG.

And as much as I love the level design in Dark Souls, the less balance-beam action of Sen's Fortress or Blighttown or Anor Londo I have to do, the happier I'll be.

 

[gavinmcinns]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole? The level design is solid but hardly anything to gasp at.

I mean, I guess it's possible you've played like...three games. That would also explain this reaction.

The first time you enter the bell tower and take the elevator down is a wow moment, finding shortcuts to the valley of drakes, the deep parts of new londo, defeating the undead dragon for a shorter path to blighttown, entire hidden areas like ash lake that you can miss entirely. I've never seen a game do it like this, if you're going to call it hyperbole than at least make the effort to cite a few examples.

 

[gavinmcinns]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole?

It does seem that way. It's not hard to understand why detractors are always like "That doesn't sound enjoyable" whenever you look at the things people spout out about Dark Souls.

OT: I hardly think a demo is a good basis to judge what should theoretically be a massively sprawling action-RPG.

And as much as I love the level design in Dark Souls, the less balance-beam action of Sen's Fortress or Blighttown or Anor Londo I have to do, the happier I'll be.

I think the precariousness of thin beams and questionable footing adds to the adrenaline rush.

I find it difficult to fathom why anyone would want to showcase such a garbage level in the game.

 

[shrekfan246]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole?

It does seem that way. It's not hard to understand why detractors are always like "That doesn't sound enjoyable" whenever you look at the things people spout out about Dark Souls.

OT: I hardly think a demo is a good basis to judge what should theoretically be a massively sprawling action-RPG.

And as much as I love the level design in Dark Souls, the less balance-beam action of Sen's Fortress or Blighttown or Anor Londo I have to do, the happier I'll be.

I think the precariousness of thin beams and questionable footing adds to the adrenaline rush

You're free to think that.

I think that when I've spent an hour getting knocked off of them because of Silver Knight Archers with Dragonslayer Greatbows, whoever thought it was a great idea to make that section of the game can go leap off a castle roof so they can see if they can find all of the souls that have been lost down that chasm.

Relax, man. If the game releases and it turns out that everything is a tiny, narrow, cramped hallway, then complain. As of right now, there are far more environments than what the demo has shown us, and neither Demon's Souls nor Dark Souls were flawless in their levels.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Since when was level design half the game? The level design in Dark Souls was mostly shit.

Blightown, New Londo, The Cathedral, Crystal Cave, Dukes Archives, Sen's Fortress, hell pretty much every location. All were shit, terribly shit.

The aesthetic and atmosphere was good, not the level design.

Edit:

I'll add more.

Lost Izalith should go down in history as the worst level design ever, Tomb of the Giants was an exercise in blind arrow to the face outta nowhere, The Chasm of the Abyss sucked, another blind cave, with fucking crazy powerful spells getting flung at you from everywhere.

And yet I still love the game more than any other this gen.

 

[BreakfastMan]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole? The level design is solid but hardly anything to gasp at.

I mean, I guess it's possible you've played like...three games. That would also explain this reaction.

The first time you enter the bell tower and take the elevator down is a wow moment, finding shortcuts to the valley of drakes, the deep parts of new londo, defeating the undead dragon for a shorter path to blighttown, entire hidden areas like ash lake that you can miss entirely. I've never seen a game do it like this, if you're going to call it hyperbole than at least make the effort to cite a few examples.

Oh for heaven's sake, you act like Metriodvania games are some amazing new invention. They aren't, really, trust me on this.

OT: There are a fair few things to be concerned about in Dark Souls II (forcing PvP all the time being and making ganking easier being chief among my concerns), but I very much doubt that the level design is among them. I mean, I agree with the above posters, Dark Souls had some horribly designed areas, but it also had some great areas as well, and I doubt that will change much in this iteration.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The first time you enter the bell tower and take the elevator down is a wow moment, finding shortcuts to the valley of drakes, the deep parts of new londo, defeating the undead dragon for a shorter path to blighttown, entire hidden areas like ash lake that you can miss entirely. I've never seen a game do it like this, if you're going to call it hyperbole than at least make the effort to cite a few examples.

How am I supposed to post examples when I still have no idea why you think it's so revolutionary?

"Wow moments", short cuts and optional areas. Be still my heart. WHAT OTHER GAME HAS DONE SUCH THINGS?

 

[Dandark]

I liked the level design and thought they did a good job piecing it together so that everything was connected but it really isn't that big a deal. Other games do this kind of stuff as well, it sounds like you have just gotten used to games with awful level design so playing a game with good or decent level design like Dark souls seems incredible.

Another game that did this kinda stuff? I think Metroid did it for one. I can't think of another off the top of my head but other games have done this and while I think Dark souls did a great job it wasn't as big of a deal as the atmosphere and combat.

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole?

It does seem that way. It's not hard to understand why detractors are always like "That doesn't sound enjoyable" whenever you look at the things people spout out about Dark Souls.

OT: I hardly think a demo is a good basis to judge what should theoretically be a massively sprawling action-RPG.

And as much as I love the level design in Dark Souls, the less balance-beam action of Sen's Fortress or Blighttown or Anor Londo I have to do, the happier I'll be.

I think the precariousness of thin beams and questionable footing adds to the adrenaline rush

You're free to think that.

I think that when I've spent an hour getting knocked off of them because of Silver Knight Archers with Dragonslayer Greatbows, whoever thought it was a great idea to make that section of the game can go leap off a castle roof so they can see if they can find all of the souls that have been lost down that chasm.

Relax, man. If the game releases and it turns out that everything is a tiny, narrow, cramped hallway, then complain. As of right now, there are far more environments than what the demo has shown us, and neither Demon's Souls nor Dark Souls were flawless in their levels.

Spoiler: The section with archers is far too easy, this is clearly how it should be

 

[suitepee7]

as much as i love the level design for the most part, there are sections that inspire nothing but contempt from me.

blighttown can go fuck itself, crystal cave can die in a fire and the archers.... ugh, they served no purpose other than anger. the most reliable way to kill them is exploiting their bad AI. they were not what i would call consistent

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

Can we worry about said game after it is out? I love it when people judge a game on trailers and releases and start panicking on incomplete information. I realize that trailers are there for judging but if your so worried, spoil yourself after the game is out where 100's of people will stream this game to completion. The games real flaws will not be able to hide from the fan base whether they want to admit to them or not.

Can we also tone down the hostility? I get that not everyone likes this game but it seems you can cream about any other game and not be met at this level of hostility. When you see someone expressing their enjoyment for Dark Souls, you don't need to retaliate by shitting your pants.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Since when was level design half the game? The level design in Dark Souls was mostly shit.

Blightown, New Londo, The Cathedral, Crystal Cave, Dukes Archives, Sen's Fortress, hell pretty much every location. All were shit, terribly shit.

The aesthetic and atmosphere was good, not the level design.

This guy has it right.

Demon's Souls on the other hand. Aside from 5-2 and 3-1 I don't think the design was shit at all.

Except for all of Stonefang Tunnel. That place was a fucking nightmare to navigate.

Yeah Demon's Souls with it's linear levels was much better design wise. Except for 5-2, that level can go fucking burn in hell. And who thought it was a good idea to put a Black Phantom with the damn Meat Cleaver in there as well.... Craziness.

As for Stonefang Tunnel, I always just resorted to dropping down that massive mineshaft (and dying half the time) to get to the end instead of the normal way, those tunnels were just too damn confusing.

 

[loa]

I'm sure there will be plenty of shortcuts and hidden things in the final game and I would be more worried about nonstop invasions.

 

[Gincairn]

I really had to force myself to complete Demon's Souls, at times it felt like a real uphill struggle.

I have hardly touched Dark Souls yet as I feel I don't hate myself enough currently to subject myself to it.

I doubt I'll get Dark Souls 2 at this rate

 

[blackdwarf]

You know the level-design is pretty much Castlevania SoTN level-design in 3D. Love DS but let's be real here.

 

[endtherapture]

The level design in DS is average. The art and aesthetics are okay but didn't really translate in-game that well and everything was sort of washed out and too dark so you never really get the feel of how big places are.

It's cool how all the areas interconnect but really that's very simple to do that, hundreds of games have a hub based design.

The actual level design sucks. Each "zone" is non-linear and there's not that many branching paths to take. Take a game like Quake 2, that's the pinnacle of level design for me.