Worried About Dark Souls 2

[Kopikatsu]

I'm sure there will be plenty of shortcuts and hidden things in the final game and I would be more worried about nonstop invasions.

You can burn human effigies at a bonfire in order to prevent invasions for a while.

Anyway, my only main concern with DS2 is the setting. I've heard that it's both a few centuries after the events of DS1, and also that it's an entirely different world with only some references to both of the previous games. Both came from developers of the game, so I'm not even entirely sure that they've decided for themselves. Or maybe it's left up to interpretation.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

I'm sure there will be plenty of shortcuts and hidden things in the final game and I would be more worried about nonstop invasions.

You can burn human effigies at a bonfire in order to prevent invasions for a while.

Anyway, my only main concern with DS2 is the setting. I've heard that it's both a few centuries after the events of DS1, and also that it's an entirely different world with only some references to both of the previous games. Both came from developers of the game, so I'm not even entirely sure that they've decided for themselves. Or maybe it's left up to interpretation.

This is just me guessing as I have nothing to go off of other than odd coincidence but I think the 2nd is based in The Painted World.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I think that the OP is more referring to the interconnectivity of the world as opposed to the level design inside the areas. Which... to be fair I haven't seen in any game prior, and was one of the big things that drew me to the game. Literally every place I saw in the distance that looked interesting I eventually walked to. Maybe there's a plethora of games that do exactly this with a massive interconnected and interesting looking world (EDIT: Not Skyrim, I said "interesting looking"), and if so please point some out to me because I love that sort of game. It just made the world feel very real and full of character, instead of everything just being backdrops in the distance

 

[EvilRoy]

I'm sure there will be plenty of shortcuts and hidden things in the final game and I would be more worried about nonstop invasions.

I found a way to deal with that in DS1 that I think will still work for DS2. Play a youtube video on something sharing internet with your comp/console and play with the quality settings until it takes up enough bandwidth to timeout anyone trying to connect to you.

After a while I had it down so well I could get bloodstains, ghosts, and red text to show up perfectly, but nobody could invade.

 

['Record Stops.']

So question, are we still upset about the inclusion of a Pause button or have Rael Gaymers gotten over that travesty?

Just asking.

OT: Considering From Software's rather stellar track-record of quality games, I mean frickin' Christ guys the Armored Core series alone is worth a mention for the single best Mecha series released in the US, that all being said... I'm not that worried, wait for the game to actually get released before writing off the game, it's the wait and see mentality.
Also they made Rune/Lost Kingdoms for the Gamecube, and you will be hard pressed to find a better duology of games for any system, at least a pair of games that are incredibly underrated.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

level design in Dark Souls was kind of a mess. Like Yahtzee said, it seemed like they designed the levels first without really thinking about traversal half the time. Too many of the levels were just a chore to get through, especially the ones where there were LOOOOOOOOOONG walks between the nearest bonfire and the boss room. It felt more like an exercise in patience more than a legitimate challenge.

 

[Ishal]

I am. Very worried.

I'm concerned the most about the level design. It looks like they forgot all the great techniques they learned in making the first two games. Granted, I've only seen about an hour or two worth of the game, it's still enough to make me fret for the direction they went in. I still cant fathom their decision to wrest directorial control of the game from Miyazaki. It seems the world is backwards. I don't care what has been said in the press releases, this was not his decision.

What I've seen is bland and boring. The level design is half the game and it just seems like they didn't put any thought into it. Level design in the original souls game was full of intent. Every tree, every tower, ever corridor was placed with care to create it's unique atmosphere. The beta level of DS2 just looks like a hodgey podgey mess created by amateur level designers.

Let me know if you agree or think I'm full of shit. I hope that I'm wrong because I love this series and I don't want to stop loving it.

>Opinions

Miyazaki was involved in the project as an overseer. He helped Tanimura-san in lots of ways, and I'm guessing level design was one of the first places they did it. It's all going to come down to taste. I've heard lots of positive things about the early game areas and seen maybe 4 or 5 of them so far. I'm impressed by the aesthetic, the design itself isn't something I'll be able to pass judgement on til I play the whole game. Also keep in mind as of this time, I don't think anyone has made it to late game yet. The only thing about the design I've hear so far has been that the "lone traveler" feel, or whatever you want to call it, from the first game is gone due to the addition of warping between bonfires. People felt like they were going back to the hub all the time and it got boring.

I think it's too early to tell. I also think that saying every tree, every tower, every corridor being placed with care is being a bit extreme. Miyazaki's quote of saying, "A beautifully crafted world could tell it's story in silence" means they payed huge levels of attention to detail. However, this is a different game. I have an idea of how the game will feel from looking at the map of Drangleic. But until I play it, nothing I can do but wait.

 

[Ishal]

The way the areas are interconnected is unlike any other game I've ever seen.

Oh for heavens sake. Is there some Dark Souls Appreciation Club where you guys get together to practice your hyperbole? The level design is solid but hardly anything to gasp at.

I mean, I guess it's possible you've played like...three games. That would also explain this reaction.

Yep, its the same places where Bioware fans used to go to post the very same things about the Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and KOTOR series. Why, I believe this very site was one such place not too long ago. Surely you remember that?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yep, its the same places where Bioware fans used to go to post the very same things about the Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and KOTOR series. Why, I believe this very site was one such place not too long ago. Surely you remember that?

I'm not sure any rational Bioware fan would've been making the "I've never seen X in a game before" claim, given they'd been seeing more or less exactly the same thing in every Bioware game going back to the original Baldur's Gate.

But I'm puzzled by your tone. Do you take me for some moon-eyed Bioware sycophant, Ser? If so I must protest.

 

[Ishal]

Yep, its the same places where Bioware fans used to go to post the very same things about the Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and KOTOR series. Why, I believe this very site was one such place not too long ago. Surely you remember that?

I'm not sure any rational Bioware fan would've been making the "I've never seen X in a game before" claim, given they'd been seeing more or less exactly the same thing in every Bioware game going back to the original Baldur's Gate.

But I'm puzzled by your tone. Do you take me for some moon-eyed Bioware sycophant, Ser? If so I must protest.

Nah, I know you're not, Guppy.

Sorry if that came across as a little snarky. It's just I've heard similar things from fans of any series all across the forums for all sorts of games. I've been to multiple MMO sites and seen what is (imo) the worst of it. I just don't see the Dark Souls fanatics any differently than I see the Titanfall ones, or the Secret World ones, or the GW2 ones, etc.

Bioware was just an example since I used to be one not too long ago. "No other game has the character depth that is found in KOTOR or ME." is something I might have said. But that was before I played Planescape: Torment

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Nah, I know you're not, Guppy.

Sorry if that came across as a little snarky. It's just I've heard similar things from fans of any series all across the forums for all sorts of games. I've been to multiple MMO sites and seen what is (imo) the worst of it. I just don't see the Dark Souls fanatics any differently than I see the Titanfall ones, or the Secret World ones, or the GW2 ones, etc.

Bioware was just an example since I used to be one not too long ago. "No other game has the character depth that is found in KOTOR or ME." is something I might have said. But that was before I played Planescape: Torment

It's true, I just see it more ritually with Dark Souls fans than almost any other group. I like Dark Souls and I can even kind of understand its cult-like following. I just think the fans need to settle down and be a little objective from time to time to quell the Jim Jones vibe.

You pegged it with Secret World though. The fanaticism that game inspired in the true believers was something to behold. MMO players have always been ludicrously tribal, but that game's forums were something to behold. It's almost tragic that it ended up being a shoddy, under-performing road apple.

 

[lucky_sharm]

level design in Dark Souls was kind of a mess. Like Yahtzee said, it seemed like they designed the levels first without really thinking about traversal half the time. Too many of the levels were just a chore to get through, especially the ones where there were LOOOOOOOOOONG walks between the nearest bonfire and the boss room. It felt more like an exercise in patience more than a legitimate challenge.

He wrote that in as praise, not a criticism. Right after that, he knocks on Syndicate for having grand environments that you can't actually access while acclaiming Dark Souls for having background environments that you can not only traverse but also interact with in meaningful ways.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

speaking of Dark Souls 2, it has a PC release date - 25/04/2014

on topic, i loved the way the area's were intertwined, not sure how many other games have put so much effort into linking areas that way, but yes it was nice.
now, how long did it take you to notice/appreciate, how intertwined it was? good few hours for me. so stop worrying until it comes out.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

So question, are we still upset about the inclusion of a Pause button or have Rael Gaymers gotten over that travesty?

woah, DS2 is getting a pause button. thats caught me off guard

 

[porous_shield]

I liked Demon's Souls worlds and they were fun to muck around, for the most part, but I didn't think they were anything to gush over.

They certainly had their design problems. The cliff-face in 2-2 was a pain to fall down and so was the shortcut down to the armoured spider. Why would a game with no jump button have sections like these? It felt like the will of the gods sometimes whether I would land perfectly or glance off a wall and fall horribly to my death.

There were also far to many narrow ledges throughout for how poorly the character handles on them. I think aesthetics should come second place to unnecessarily annoying the people playing your game.

Except for all of Stonefang Tunnel. That place was a fucking nightmare to navigate.

My brother is navigationally impaired and was in those tunnels for hours walking around in circles completely lost.

 

[Nieroshai]

In hindsight without the goggles of a player freshly introduced, ALL "souls" level design is kind of bad, at least from a visual standpoint. I'd played older games that looked better. My character cannot help but look like a creepily-smiling manikin, monsters look like they're from the Doom 3 era. But who plays Souls for looks? Just about no one. People play for challenge and immersion, and the trailers show neither simply because trailers cannot show those things.

 

[gavinmcinns]

I think that the OP is more referring to the interconnectivity of the world as opposed to the level design inside the areas. Which... to be fair I haven't seen in any game prior, and was one of the big things that drew me to the game. Literally every place I saw in the distance that looked interesting I eventually walked to. Maybe there's a plethora of games that do exactly this with a massive interconnected and interesting looking world (EDIT: Not Skyrim, I said "interesting looking"), and if so please point some out to me because I love that sort of game. It just made the world feel very real and full of character, instead of everything just being backdrops in the distance

I guess level design means different things to people, to me it's just a general term for the way the world is put together and the details that flesh it out.

It's the same for me, the seamless inter connectivity is a huge part of the experience, it makes it feel like a real place that you can get lost in. I always hear people talk about immersion in other games, but 99 times out of 100 I just cant relate at all. For example, people said skyrim was immersive, and I just have to question the validity of their perspective on everything else. Souls series and DayZ are the only games I would call immersive. No annoying VO or ham dialogue to get in the way of the experience, and the VO that is in there is minimal and adds rather than takes away from the experience.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I'm not going to pass judgment until I'm playing the game, but at the moment, I'm cautiously optimistic based on the fact that VaatiVidya seems to like it.

 

[gavinmcinns]

I am. Very worried.

I'm concerned the most about the level design. It looks like they forgot all the great techniques they learned in making the first two games. Granted, I've only seen about an hour or two worth of the game, it's still enough to make me fret for the direction they went in. I still cant fathom their decision to wrest directorial control of the game from Miyazaki. It seems the world is backwards. I don't care what has been said in the press releases, this was not his decision.

What I've seen is bland and boring. The level design is half the game and it just seems like they didn't put any thought into it. Level design in the original souls game was full of intent. Every tree, every tower, ever corridor was placed with care to create it's unique atmosphere. The beta level of DS2 just looks like a hodgey podgey mess created by amateur level designers.

Let me know if you agree or think I'm full of shit. I hope that I'm wrong because I love this series and I don't want to stop loving it.

>Opinions

Miyazaki was involved in the project as an overseer. He helped Tanimura-san in lots of ways, and I'm guessing level design was one of the first places they did it. It's all going to come down to taste. I've heard lots of positive things about the early game areas and seen maybe 4 or 5 of them so far. I'm impressed by the aesthetic, the design itself isn't something I'll be able to pass judgement on til I play the whole game. Also keep in mind as of this time, I don't think anyone has made it to late game yet. The only thing about the design I've hear so far has been that the "lone traveler" feel, or whatever you want to call it, from the first game is gone due to the addition of warping between bonfires. People felt like they were going back to the hub all the time and it got boring.

I think it's too early to tell. I also think that saying every tree, every tower, every corridor being placed with care is being a bit extreme. Miyazaki's quote of saying, "A beautifully crafted world could tell it's story in silence" means they payed huge levels of attention to detail. However, this is a different game. I have an idea of how the game will feel from looking at the map of Drangleic. But until I play it, nothing I can do but wait.

The "Lone Traveler" aspect was so cool, allowing you to warp from the start all but confirms my suspicions. They don't care about creating an intimate relationship between the world and the player anymore, mark my words it is the beginning of the checklistification of dark souls. Such a bullshit move.

 

[gavinmcinns]

speaking of Dark Souls 2, it has a PC release date - 25/04/2014

on topic, i loved the way the area's were intertwined, not sure how many other games have put so much effort into linking areas that way, but yes it was nice.
now, how long did it take you to notice/appreciate, how intertwined it was? good few hours for me. so stop worrying until it comes out.

As soon as i found out where that long elevator ride down was taking me, I was just amazed. Finding out that I could go back to the asylum and fight the secret boss pretty much sealed the deal.