Worst use of a silent protagonist

Recommended Videos

Z of the Na'vi

Born with one kidney.
Apr 27, 2009
5,034
0
0
I know it's kind of a staple of the series at this point, but it really bothers me how the player character in the Pokemon games is "silent" in a manner of speaking. During my playthrough of Pokemon X, there were plenty of moments when I would have loved some proper dialogue option choices when my team of friends were talking to me.

I think it would be really cool to implement a feature like this in the future, if you ask me.
 

Mikejames

New member
Jan 26, 2012
797
0
0
StriderShinryu said:
This is my thought as well. It's bad enough when you get a CoD or Battlefield situation where you have a supposed character that can't do anything but be led around by the nose with others doing everything. It's, however, even worse when you have a clearly developed and designed character, with clearly intended emotional relationships to other characters, like Gordon Freeman that just can't speak for "reasons." There is no blank shell character for the player to inhabit, there's a clearly designed character who just is mute for no reason.
Yeah, I enjoy the game and get the idea of projecting the player into Gordon's shoes, but Alyx has the emotional stake in everything. I feel like she's protagonist, and I'm the camera-man.
 

Shocksplicer

New member
Apr 10, 2011
891
0
0
the hidden eagle said:
Shocksplicer said:
dylanmc12 said:
Master Chief .
Not a silent protagonist

OT: I've never encountered a single game where a silent protagonist has failed to make the story far weaker. It's a pathetic, lazy technique that should have died long ago. Special mention goes to Dishonored, whose entire plot was rendered utterly ridiculous due to the fact that it is a revenge tale about a man with no personality whatsoever, making it impossible to invest in his struggle in any way.
How is it pathetic and lazy?In games where you create the character and become him/her having them be silent makes sense.Not every game has to have VA in order to be good.
A character without a voice has no personality. It doesn't matter how much backstory they have or how other characters describe them, if they are incapable of interacting with anyone they have no personality.
 

Vigormortis

New member
Nov 21, 2007
4,531
0
0
Shocksplicer said:
A character without a voice has no personality. It doesn't matter how much backstory they have or how other characters describe them, if they are incapable of interacting with anyone they have no personality.
Just wanted to say that the ability to emote is NOT predicated on the ability to speak.

For example, and keeping within video gaming, just look at Portal 2.

P-Body and Atlas never speak, at any point in the game. However, they very clearly demonstrate whatever emotion they are feeling at any given moment.

There are far more ways to interact with others than simply speaking. And, I'd even go so far as to argue that it's often better to have a character ACT, let's say sad, than it is to simply have them say, "I'm sad."
 

Amaror

New member
Apr 15, 2011
1,509
0
0
TorchofThanatos said:
Alek_the_Great said:
SmallHatLogan said:
Dragon Age: Origins. A silent protagonist who seems to talk but only when the camera's off since he/she is clearly able to communicate with people. I get why they did it (2 genders + 3 races = potentially 6 voice tracks) but I'm still not a fan.
DA:O's protagonist isn't truly silent, they just aren't voiced. IMO, it's better to have a bunch of dialogue options without a voice rather than a few that are voiced.
I don't know If I agree with that. I personally like the voiced options better. I find that Mass Effects and DA2 style is more engaging. The Witcher also voices all of is dialogue but these games are set up as RPG. You take on the roll of someone else were as DA:O set it up for you to create "yourself." I prefer that latter but I can understand why people like the non-voice. Do you like to read the book and image what the character sound and talk like or watch the movie and enjoy the voices given? Kinda a bad example but it is all I could come up with.
Given that the books almost always has the better story and more believable character interaction than the movies, since they don't have to pay people to deliver the lines, i will take the book and the unvoiced protagonist with multiple dialogue options every day, thank you.
But since you gave DA 2 as a good example of something i allready know that we won't agree on this, so a discussion is probably pointless.
 

ThatQuietGuy

New member
May 22, 2013
73
0
0
I'm going to say Dishonored, I'm not as bothered by the silent protagonist too much, I don't mind it in Half-Life for example, but for Dishonored it really feels like a missed opportunity. It seems like the game wants to have emotion, the empress dies in your arms, the little girl gets kidnapped, ect. But instead your just along for the ride, blindly following orders when they tell you to become an assassin. Even reading an internal monolog on loading screens would've added a lot of character and a lot more emotion to the game IMO.
 

Olas

Hello!
Dec 24, 2011
3,226
0
0
I'll defend the concept of silent protagonists till the end of time, so it'd take an unusual use of one to really make me dislike it.

delta4062 said:
Metro 2033 and Last Light is pretty annoying. Since Artyom is being voiced during each loading screen, why not in game? It would of made tense moments in Last Light so much better.
And that would be it. Metro Last Light (I haven't played 2033) defeated the point of having a silent protagonist by giving them dialogue anyway, just in an awkward manner. It also had Artyom expressing his feelings in journal entries that you bizarrely had to find scattered around your environment.

I disagree about the tense moments however, dialogue especially if it's just your character's reaction, would just ruin them. Besides, half that game you're either alone or using stealth so it would make no sense for Artyom to talk, he should have just been a silent protagonist completely.
 

Olas

Hello!
Dec 24, 2011
3,226
0
0
Shocksplicer said:
dylanmc12 said:
Master Chief .
Not a silent protagonist

OT: I've never encountered a single game where a silent protagonist has failed to make the story far weaker. It's a pathetic, lazy technique that should have died long ago.
No. It's not a lazy[footnote]That would imply that it's harder to simply write dialogue than to convincingly design a game around a silent character in a way that makes sense and still allows for emotional investment[/footnote] technique at all, it's one that is perfectly logical in the dynamic of a videogame, especially a first person one, where you aren't simply watching a character but are actually stepping into their shoes and becoming them. This intimate sense of oneness you have with the character is the difference between feeling like an outside viewer of the story and feeling like a part of it.

Because of the limited nature of AI, you, the player, will never be able to voice your opinion in an organic manner that the characters will be able to understand. Games that try to circumvent this problem with dialogue options are really only making things worse. Now not only are you not choosing what to say[footnote]not really, I mean the game is still putting the words in your mouth, it's only asking which of it's own pre-written responses is best[/footnote] but it turns conversations into awkward labyrinths you have to navigate through filled with long pauses that the other characters somehow don't find strange.

I'd argue they really only work when they're kept very strait-forward (as in yes/no) and are used only for important situations in the game.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

New member
Aug 30, 2011
3,104
0
0
Dragon's Dogma. Not only feels stupid for the majority of the game, but when at the end of the game
accused of treason,
still doesn't say a fucking thing.
 

Sarge034

New member
Feb 24, 2011
1,623
0
0
The Madman said:
I quite like Dishonored, but even so Corvo should have been a voiced protagonist. Hell the developers could have even done a Spec Ops thing where depending on your playstyle and decisions his voice and comments could either be calm and collected, or descending into bloodthirsty savagery driven by desire for revenge. That would have been neat and would have fit perfectly into the games existing mechanics!
The problem with that is that Spec Ops leads you down the path of murder without you catching on until it's too late and you have no choice. Dishonored lets you decide from the start and change at will. Perhaps I want to kill everyone because I feel it is my duty to bring the Empresses' murders to justice. I would be roll playing a calm collected assassin but the game would keep telling me I'm this bloodthirsty savage driven by revenge. Silence was for the best I think.

OT- I would have to say the most jarring silent protagonist would be Freeman. For no other reason than the NPCs actively try to have conversations and emote with you in the cut scenes and all you can do is...

No text or context, just Gordon brain-dead Freeman.
 

spartandude

New member
Nov 24, 2009
2,721
0
0
Seth Carter said:
Dragons Dogma. It really only highlighted the seemingly incomplete feel of the story parts when the character never talks at all. Possibly moreso cause the pawns (which're also user-created) are incredibly (pre-patch, almost unbearably so) talkative. The major point being when you get arrested for a blatant frameup and seem to just go along with it.
To be honest in Dragon's Dogma the only thing they need to have the PC say is "SHUT THE FUCK UP!" while holding a pawn by the lapels just over the edge of a very large tower.
 

Shocksplicer

New member
Apr 10, 2011
891
0
0
Olas said:
Shocksplicer said:
dylanmc12 said:
Master Chief .
Not a silent protagonist

OT: I've never encountered a single game where a silent protagonist has failed to make the story far weaker. It's a pathetic, lazy technique that should have died long ago.
No. It's not a lazy[footnote]That would imply that it's harder to simply write dialogue than to convincingly design a game around a silent character in a way that makes sense and still allows for emotional investment[/footnote] technique at all, it's one that is perfectly logical in the dynamic of a videogame, especially a first person one, where you aren't simply watching a character but are actually stepping into their shoes and becoming them. This intimate sense of oneness you have with the character is the difference between feeling like an outside viewer of the story and feeling like a part of it.

Because of the limited nature of AI, you, the player, will never be able to voice your opinion in an organic manner that the characters will be able to understand. Games that try to circumvent this problem with dialogue options are really only making things worse. Now not only are you not choosing what to say[footnote]not really, I mean the game is still putting the words in your mouth, it's only asking which of it's own pre-written responses is best[/footnote] but it turns conversations into awkward labyrinths you have to navigate through filled with long pauses that the other characters somehow don't find strange.

I'd argue they really only work when they're kept very strait-forward (as in yes/no) and are used only for important situations in the game.
I disagree. For starters, it clearly is harder to write dialogue than convincingly design a game around a silent character, because no one has ever managed it. No story driven game exists where the silent protagonist isn't silly and jarring. Games like Metro, Half Life, Dishonored and so on all have their atmosphere severely damaged by the fact that all the events of their stories revolve around seemingly brain-damaged muppets that nobody finds strange or creepy.

Why do people assume that Artyom is going to help them? He never said that, he stared at them blankly and then walked off with his gun raised. Corvo Attano has people assuming left right and centre that he wants revenge, but maybe he just wants to open a florist and spend his life tending azaleas and only avenges the Empress because he thought it would be awkward if he contradicted people's expectations. Their silence makes the story seem absurd and compromises the atmosphere of the world.

Wanting to imprint ones own personality on a character can work, but if the character needs to have meaningful interaction with people they need a voice, or it becomes a farce. My hero in Fable getting married to a woman despite the fact that the only words he ever said to her were "Hey" and "Yes!" fits in the silly atmosphere of Albion. Artyom having a romantic scene with a woman he has NEVER SPOKEN TO ruins the entire scene, and indeed that entire subplot.

You can like a silent protagonist for giving you the ability to imprint yourself onto a cipher who is not truly a character, that's fine. But personally, I can't imagine a game with any modicum of emotional depth or consistent atmosphere where the main character is silent without being silly.
 

Rolaoi

New member
Nov 10, 2013
103
0
0
Samus Aran for the fallout it caused when they started to give her a voice and a personality.
 

MrHide-Patten

New member
Jun 10, 2009
1,309
0
0
SuperSaiyanMajinBuu said:
I know I'm going to catch crap for this, but I say Mario and Link. I love Nintendo to death, but this bothers me.
There is only one piece of nostalgia I reserve for Mario and it is the old cartoon... where he talked.

Mostly Dishonored, it was a game that stood out quite viscerally with it's muteness, it's why I can forgive Bioshock Infinite for a lot of things for having Troy Baker in my ear for hours.
 

Vigormortis

New member
Nov 21, 2007
4,531
0
0
Alek_the_Great said:
P-Body and Atlas actually interact though, and while they don't technically speak they're highly emotive. They are silent protagonists done RIGHT. Rather than just making them a blank slate that do nothing but stare they actually have well defined personalities. You can make characters that don't speak that are still highly emotive, cartoons being the pinnacle of this virtue.
Uh...that's....what I was saying?

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me in an argumentative way or if you're attempting to correct me by essentially repeating what I said.

Whichever the case, I'm very confused. Heh. But it seems we agree.

Characters like Chell and Gordon Freeman on the other hand are pretty much just robots that do nothing but shoot shit and follow orders.
I could argue on the merits of the silent protagonist and the narrative structures that warrant such characters, but I'm pretty sure these points have been argued to death.

I'm not one ad nauseam.

However, I will say that viewing those characters from a non-1st-person perspective effectively removes the core element of what makes those characters. I.E. the player.

There are plenty of criticisms to make, and plenty of examples of poor implementation, but these don't imply an inherent failing in the use of the silent protagonist.
 

Ikasury

New member
May 15, 2013
297
0
0
blackdwarf said:
Dishonored. I was annoyed at the fact i couldn't say anything, because it was clear that that some characters were talking a lot of BS, but I couldn't call them out on that.
agreed... so much agreed...
 

Ikasury

New member
May 15, 2013
297
0
0
MeChaNiZ3D said:
Dragon's Dogma. Not only feels stupid for the majority of the game, but when at the end of the game
accused of treason,
still doesn't say a fucking thing.
as someone that likes Dragon's Dogma... i'll give you that, it is a rather dumb moment to keep to the whole 'silent protagonist' thing XD