Would Gaming be better off without Halo?

[the Revenator]

I know what you're thinking but the thing is that halo took IDEAS from stuff but it didn't copy them also it was original but so many things copied halo it gets mixed up and stuff and halo is fun personally i owe halo a debt it brought me into gaming without it i would still be playing spyro also so what we cant change the past but heres somthing to think about were would we be without halo?

 

[The Kangaroo]

You know that Humanity are the descendants of the Forerunners, right? Well, the Prophets found this out, and decided that if the rest of the Covenant knew, they would lose their "congregation". These power hungry leaders didn't like that idea, not one bit, so they decided to eliminate humanity so no one would find out. Sounds like a good enough motivation to me.

1. Where did you get that because that is not mentioned in the games and if you say the books those are authors filling in those gaps in story so they don't count

How about the book penned by the guy who wrote Halo's script? So yes, that particular book DOES count.

I disagree. Gaming has been the way he described it (fun and polished) since the beginning, back when games didn't need a story. And it has continued that way until recently. Hideo Kojima doesn't see games as an art form, and his are some of the games that I consider art. Extremely polished controls, first and foremost, followed by interesting characters and story. Being playable and fun is the most important aspect of a game, because no one is going to give a rats ass about your fancy story if it's too tedious to advance the plot. There are plenty of games that succeed on both accounts, story and gameplay, and these are "art"

Hideo Kojima makes movies wrapped in cliche and slaps game elements onto them who's games are not art because they deny you the things that make gaming unique; Exploration and you can tell your own story.

2. Oh, so in order to be artsy, it has to tell a good story, control well AND let you run around in a sandbox? Spare me. Sandbox games were fun at first, now they are everywhere and have overstayed their welcome. A big sandbox does not make a good game. Games are just another medium to tell a story, and 3. there is no way to "tell your own story" without the game being absolute shite. If you want that, get RPG Maker or something. 4. You play a game as an interactive movie/book, cause that's what it is, a story telling medium. Deal with it.

5. This debate is pointless, it's all a matter of opinion. You think MGS sucks, I disagree. Neither of us is right, however. Much the same way with Halo. You like it or you don't, and that's that. It seems to me that you just wanted to prove how savvy and intellectual you are (or THINK you are), so you started this topic. Mentioning Citizen Kane and how much you love Indie games all the time, like the fact that you do like them makes you better than the Average Joe, doesn't do anything to help dispel that impression.

1. So he wrote the story, then came up with the antagonist's motivation?
2. I never said that, to be artsy a game needs to do something different and exploration does not mean sandbox, it means that I can look around and move at my own pace
3. The Sims
4. Why can't I play a game as a game
5. I never said that I'm right about MGS 4 or that I'm better than someone else so stop putting words in my mouth

 

[The Kangaroo]

You know what? Fuck it, nobody on this thread seems to try to get my point except Trivun so feel free to squabble and ***** among yourselfs as I probably won't reply

 

[tanithwolf]

Personally I liked Halo and have no problems with it. I don't see how we would be better off without it as it has inspired some great games. I also don't see how people can give out about the lack of "artsy" games. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't see something as great art, just because I'm told it is. To me the Mona Lisa is just some painting, but aboriginal art is absolutely fantastic. My point being, there is no lack of artsy games, you just are unable to find the ones that suit your particular tastes.

 

[Banhaze]

Whether you like it or not, Halo did too many thing RIGHT for it to be casually disregarded.

 

[The Kangaroo]

Personally I liked Halo and have no problems with it. I don't see how we would be better off without it as it has inspired some great games. I also don't see how people can give out about the lack of "artsy" games. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't see something as great art, just because I'm told it is. To me the Mona Lisa is just some painting, but aboriginal art is absolutely fantastic. My point being, there is no lack of artsy games, you just are unable to find the ones that suit your particular tastes.

I never said there is a lack of artsy games, just big ones.

PS The Mona Lisa is art because of what it did for art, new painting styles, new methods and for it's time was very racy.

 

[tanithwolf]

Personally I liked Halo and have no problems with it. I don't see how we would be better off without it as it has inspired some great games. I also don't see how people can give out about the lack of "artsy" games. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't see something as great art, just because I'm told it is. To me the Mona Lisa is just some painting, but aboriginal art is absolutely fantastic. My point being, there is no lack of artsy games, you just are unable to find the ones that suit your particular tastes.

I never said there is a lack of artsy games, just big ones.

PS The Mona Lisa is art because of what it did for art, new painting styles, new methods and for it's time was very racy.

I thought you had left this thread and I think you have completely missed my point. I am talking about the concept of beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You do not see any of the big games as artsy, because they do not appeal to you in that way. But they can appeal to other people in that way.

 

[The Kangaroo]

I thought you had left this thread and I think you have completely missed my point. I am talking about the concept of beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You do not see any of the big games as artsy, because they do not appeal to you in that way. But they can appeal to other people in that way.

You know what? Fuck it, nobody on this thread seems to try to get my point except Trivun so feel free to squabble and ***** among yourselfs as I probably won't reply

I know that art is in the eye of the beholder but some things are just fact. For example you may not like The Godfather but it's still a good movie and you may not like The Mona Lisa but it is art and I cannot think of a single mainstream game that could be considered art

 

[tanithwolf]

I thought you had left this thread and I think you have completely missed my point. I am talking about the concept of beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You do not see any of the big games as artsy, because they do not appeal to you in that way. But they can appeal to other people in that way.

You know what? Fuck it, nobody on this thread seems to try to get my point except Trivun so feel free to squabble and ***** among yourselfs as I probably won't reply

I know that art is in the eye of the beholder but some things are just fact. For example you may not like The Godfather but it's still a good movie and you may not like The Mona Lisa but it is art and I cannot think of a single mainstream game that could be considered art

Your reply is very interesting, because first you seem to agree with me, and then you proceed to completely change from what I had said. The Godfather is not a good movie because you say it is, in your opinion it is. You are not the emperor of the earth, you do not set the standards, people are entitled to their own opinion.

 

[The Kangaroo]

Your reply is very interesting, because first you seem to agree with me, and then you proceed to completely change from what I had said. The Godfather is not a good movie because you say it is, in your opinion it is. You are not the emperor of the earth, you do not set the standards, people are entitled to their own opinion.

I did agree with you and The Godfather regardless of your opinion in the same way that I don't like Shakespeare but I can concede that he is a fantastic author. I also never said that my opinion is right but sometimes people's opinions are wrong e.g. the racist, homophobe and fundamentalist

 

[Flying-Emu]

Is the Dark Knight fun? Is The Godfather? Transformers is and so is Halo. So to answer your question, yes I would sacrifice fun for a truly good games because I love games and I want to see a truly good one.

Yes. They are fun. Both of them. I don't watch the Dark Knight and think "HRM POLITICAL THOUGHT AND DEEP MEANING HRM."

I don't watch the Godfather because it's making some deep statement about social situations sixty years ago.

I watch them because they're entertaining, which is all an entertainment medium is supposed to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your argument seems to be that games should be fun, they should make an artistic statement.

If that's your argument, what is an artistic statement? You'd be surprised how few people can answer that question.

I cannot think of a single mainstream game that could be considered art

Shadow of the Colossus.

 

[The Kangaroo]

If that's your argument, what is an artistic statement? You'd be surprised how few people can answer that question.

An artistic statement is something that's against the standard

 

[Awexsome]

Would Gaming be better off without Halo?

Short answer... ya!

Long answer... OH HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Halo is the most overrated/sorriest excuse for an FPS I have ever seen in my entire life!
It is so BORING! The enemies literally telegraph their moves.
And the way it was made... It's so buggy that if you go through it backward (as opposed to the linear path they WANT you to take) NOTHING will attack you... Because you didn't trigger event #1 so event #20 won't activate.

Personally (to me anyway) Halo is nothing more than a tiny footnote in the annals of gaming history.

Now if it was Mario or Zelda... That's a different story!

Fail.

Halo wrote the books on how to develop a shooter on consoles with their default settings. The enemies were the smartest ones of their time with the Elites some of the best enemies to face on higher diffuculties taking cover. There are millions time worse AI in 360 and PS3 games.

And as for glitches? I haven't played through one game where a fatal glitch forced me to reset the game for any reason.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I should ignore the omissions, I take it? Very well.

I notice you conveniently ignored my counterpoint in favor of offering a vague and random statement.

I was explaining my point because apparently you didn't get it.

You brought up an anecdote about your friend arguing with you on the point of video games as art, when you stumbled on your friend shallowly blowing up aliens.

I countered that it could just as easily have been the other way around, and that your point was very badly supported.

So wait. The Void didn't sell well because it got no publicity, and I'm assuming you mean "because they didn't market it" rather than "because no one cared" (this game has been out for one month in downloadable English form). Who's fault is that, exactly, and how does it have anything to do with your point?

1. It did have publicity, In Russia and Atari made the english one so it is their fault

Okay then. Could you connect it to the rest of what you're trying to say? I didn't think Atari made Halo, for instance.

I have no idea what you're saying, and I'm starting to suspect that you don't either.

I'm saying that even though those comics were good (like Halo) they proved that it was profitable and so the shit copies pushed it into a bad place

And you somehow think that things would be different if your pet artistic games were the ones proving profitable?

It could sacrifice fun and attractive game design in favor of making totally irrelevant artistic points.

Is the Dark Knight fun? Is The Godfather? Transformers is and so is Halo. So to answer your question, yes I would sacrifice fun for a truly good games because I love games and I want to see a truly good one.

2. I'm assuming you want me to answer yes to those first two questions. I haven't seen either, so I'd have to go by their reputations.

3. Games can have good stories without being any less fun (Metal Gear, Halo, some of the Final Fantasy series, most Tales games, Psychonauts, Devil May Cry 3, etc.) A game that sacrifices fun to make a point is almost by definition not a good game. It's a pretentious game.

1. You were blaming IPL for their marketing

If so, I made a mistake. I wasn't trying to blame anyone for marketing, I was just trying to figure out what you were saying about it, and how it was relevant.

2. You assumed wrong

So...The Dark Knight and The Godfather aren't good movies? The internet has been lying to me through its collective teeth. Why do you keep bringing them up as positive examples, then?

3. Having a good story does not make the game artistic just as a well drawn painting is not necessarily art

"The conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; Works so produced."

A well-drawn painting (hell, a painting) is art by definition. You can claim that it's not good art, depending on artistic skill or aesthetic meaning, but claiming it's not art altogether is extraordinarily pretentious.

 

[tanithwolf]

Your reply is very interesting, because first you seem to agree with me, and then you proceed to completely change from what I had said. The Godfather is not a good movie because you say it is, in your opinion it is. You are not the emperor of the earth, you do not set the standards, people are entitled to their own opinion.

I did agree with you and The Godfather regardless of your opinion in the same way that I don't like Shakespeare but I can concede that he is a fantastic author. I also never said that my opinion is right but sometimes people's opinions are wrong e.g. the racist, homophobe and fundamentalist

You're still missing my point, The Godfather is only good in people's opinions, Shakespeare is only good in people's opinions. You don't have to think of him as a great author because other people enjoy his works. And there is no such thing as a wrong opinion, in truth. Our opinions are formed from our own reactions from what we experience, how we choose to react on our own opinions is what is right or wrong.

 

[Paddin]

Why do people always say that Halo ruined gaming originality? Gaming was never original, there has and always will be clones of popular games. The more popular and more money a game makes, the more clones it makes. People act like the golden age of gaming was before Halo. Nuts to that, I say. You say that:

The first thing that it did to gaming was show companies that they can make a shitload of money by being unoriginal and so they just play it safe and just make sure that they can make their money back meaning that they won't take risks and make a game that would redeem gaming as an art form

Halo itself WAS original. You can't rag on Halo for playing it safe, look at Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Castlevania, Sonic, God of War, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Megaman, F-Zero, Metal Gear, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Doom, Half-Life, Quake, Unreal, in fact most franchises that have gone on a long while. The gameplay always follows the same rules, and always brings in large audiences. And all have a large amount of clones. So my answer is no, gaming would not be better without Halo, it would be exactly the same.

inb4 - "game franchise I have named" hs changd, u r an idiot lol. You get the message, so apologies if I insulted a franchise you whore over

 

[Flying-Emu]

If that's your argument, what is an artistic statement? You'd be surprised how few people can answer that question.

An artistic statement is something that's against the standard

So...

Bach's music wasn't art because it was above the standard at that point?

You seem to be confusing "art" with "rebellion."

I know a guy who wears diapers at 27. That's against standards. Is it art?

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The funny thing is, Halo did a fair number of things right. The outdoor environments were spacious and interesting, the vehicles were a hoot to drive around in (once you got used to the unintuitive but sensible control scheme for them), the voice acting was pretty good, and some of the action sequences were fun. It didn't "ruin" FPS games, just brought a somewhat distilled version of them to the 6th-generation consoles.

The trouble with Halo is the guilt-by-association problem that it has with a large number of its fanboys (please note I say "fanboys" here and not "fans"), and that too many companies took what Halo did wrong as examples of what they should do. It's unfair to lay these things at Bungie's feet (while their lackluster sequels can be, quite fairly).

If you want to blame someone for the plethora of games that tried to copy Halo- and those games' success over higher-quality ones- look no further than the gamers themselves. It's their dollars that dictate what succeeds and what fails.