WTF Humble Bundle?! "Indie" my ass.

[veloper]

''Shank is a 2D side-scrolling beat 'em up developed by Klei Entertainment and published by Electronic Arts.''

Indie developer, with EA as publisher, no problem there right?

Here is their website http://kleientertainment.com/ They are definitely indie I'd say.

Indies don't have publishers by definition. They self-publish. Indies don't go to a publisher to borrow money for their project.

Maybe there needs to be a new definition of indie then.. Because they are hardly Bioware.

Plenty of useful definitions around already.

Bioware are a large game studio: they're big and a part of a publisher.
Bioware used to be a big developer: big and working with a publisher (atari back then).
Mojang are indie: they self-publish.

Errm I kind of meant that the current definition puts Klei on the same level as Bioware which seems kind of skewed since they are clearly a relatively tiny company yet they have a large publisher.

How about simply calling Klei a "small developer" then. Problem solved.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

DId anybody bother to mention that EA is not a "developer" they are a publisher?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

''Shank is a 2D side-scrolling beat 'em up developed by Klei Entertainment and published by Electronic Arts.''

Indie developer, with EA as publisher, no problem there right?

Here is their website http://kleientertainment.com/ They are definitely indie I'd say.

Indies don't have publishers by definition. They self-publish. Indies don't go to a publisher to borrow money for their project.

Maybe there needs to be a new definition of indie then.. Because they are hardly Bioware.

Plenty of useful definitions around already.

Bioware are a large game studio: they're big and a part of a publisher.
Bioware used to be a big developer: big and working with a publisher (atari back then).
Mojang are indie: they self-publish.

Errm I kind of meant that the current definition puts Klei on the same level as Bioware which seems kind of skewed since they are clearly a relatively tiny company yet they have a large publisher.

How about simply calling Klei a "small developer" then. Problem solved.

Surely a small developer is deserving of inclusion in the bundle then. Since it's not exactly like they are rolling in cash.

 

[Rad Party God]

It's Klei Entertainment, an indie developer who also made the awesome Eets.

I understand your "concern" about seeing EA's logo... they simply act as a publisher, also... who cares if it has EA's logo?.

 

[hooksashands]

It's okay. The men in suits don't control everything. Remain calm and enjoy your game, which was worked on by small developer. Remember: Deep breaths.

 

[theultimateend]

Nope, not a troll. I just understand how a successful business works.

By not emphasizing that this is just one of many ways to be a successful business you haven't really established any solid understanding of business or solid business practices.

It was more of an observational comment. "They make money so obviously that is how you make money." Which really doesn't say anything.

EA does one of many things that can work. Is it the most effective? Probably not. If it was they wouldn't need to spend millions of dollars on marketing. Similarly Activision wouldn't be spending record levels of marketing just to overcome their business practices.

There are far more efficient systems for turning a profit. The reason they aren't used is because they require actual thought. The idea of brute forcing a no-return product with massive amounts of marketing is the current mainstream tactic but it isn't efficient. If it was they wouldn't need to continually strip down what they are doing in hopes of covering the cost.

Companies like EA and Activision have a few major titles that subsidize all their other failures. These companies only remain strong for as long as they pound out the same working product. It's a very flimsy model and will likely lead to another collapse. These companies at one time were the small nobodies who replaced a previous group that collapsed.

History repeats itself, blah, blah, blah.

I suspect a few indies (like Mojang) will end up getting big, start doing the same thing, and then collapse.

 

[veloper]

''Shank is a 2D side-scrolling beat 'em up developed by Klei Entertainment and published by Electronic Arts.''

Indie developer, with EA as publisher, no problem there right?

Here is their website http://kleientertainment.com/ They are definitely indie I'd say.

Indies don't have publishers by definition. They self-publish. Indies don't go to a publisher to borrow money for their project.

Maybe there needs to be a new definition of indie then.. Because they are hardly Bioware.

Plenty of useful definitions around already.

Bioware are a large game studio: they're big and a part of a publisher.
Bioware used to be a big developer: big and working with a publisher (atari back then).
Mojang are indie: they self-publish.

Errm I kind of meant that the current definition puts Klei on the same level as Bioware which seems kind of skewed since they are clearly a relatively tiny company yet they have a large publisher.

How about simply calling Klei a "small developer" then. Problem solved.

Surely a small developer is deserving of inclusion in the bundle then. Since it's not exactly like they are rolling in cash.

We'll call it the humble small developer bundle then.

Indie =/= poor. Mojang are indie and they are raking in the money. Going indie on the PC can be very smart.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

You know what would be great? If EA would keep helping developers like this. Allowing them to get their work done while maintaining creative control. That would be great. Good games and new ideas would flourish. I have absolutely no problem with that. I may not like many of EA's business practices, but this is unquestionably a good one.

Probably the most sensible post on this thread so far. I completely agree.
On a separate note, seeing your avatar directly before reading your post made me think a blood-coated vino crawled down from the ceiling right next to me with crazy eyes reading your post on my computer. That would be flippin' scary XD. And it's still dark in my room so..yeah. And yes, that last part was completely random.

Just warning you, but there is a guy on here with a blood drenched vino as their avatar, which would obviously be more frightening than mine. I continue to envy that avatar.

And thank you for the compliment.

 

[Yeager942]

I fail to see the big deal with this...

 

[Micalas]

It is just a video game. I don't see the big deal.

You forgot to take off you hipster glasses before you said that last part

I didn't even know I had any hipster glasses...

Actually, I wasn't even attempting to be a hipster at all. I don't even have one of those pretentious scarfs, and my sunglasses are the cheap ones from Wal-Mart.[/quote]

Glasses you bought as part of an ironic statement about rabid consumerism in western civilization.

 

[veloper]

I never said it was morally wrong. It's just not indie.

Indie is for independent. Not being fully owned by a publisher doesn't make an independent developer yet.
Indies simply don't depend on publishers for anything. That's what makes them "independent". The meaning of the word says it all basicly.
Indies self-publish.

The OP is technically correct.

No, the OP is wrong and so are you. You are making up your own definition of indie that doesn't make any sense if you think about it for more than a few seconds.

Indie simply means that it's a game where the creators are not beholden to a larger company for their decisions. They take the risk, they get the profits, and are free to divvy those however they like.

That is ENTIRELY Klei. Saying they can't make a deal with EA for marketing and distro while being indie is like saying they can't make a deal with UPS for shipping while being indie. It's preposterous. Now, if EA got to dictate what platforms they'd publish for, they'd no longer be indie. EA didn't. EA saying "We can get you on to these platforms if you can do it" is no different from say UPS saying "We can supply boxes for your shipping if you're ready"

Seriously, you're arguing that a developer somehow isn't indie if they make their own decisions on who they want to publish for them -- yet making your own decisions about that kind of thing is really what kind of defines being independent. It's not DIY or Punk software, fer chrissakes, it's just independent.

Marketing through a publisher is definitely out of the question for an indie. Distribution isn't the same as publishing, but distribution is more like Steam.
Your definition is so wide, it's meaningless. You might aswell call any developer that is not an inhouse game studio, indie.

 

[Fiskmasen]

I just paid for the "Humble Indie Bundle 4" so care to tell me why the HELL I'm staring at a big, bloated pustule of an EA logo? I support indie gamers so that they DON'T feel the need to sell out to the scumbag sequel shitters. And to be the worst of the bunch, the one that I have actively and effectively boycotted for over two years?

I'm not happy about this, and the only reason I don't go change my "developer" slider down to zero is that the actual indie devs don't deserve to be screwed over because EA and HB pulled a fast one.

Settle down. To be quite honest I don't think anyone gives a shit about your predicament.

I assume it's Shank you're referring to in your insane ramblings. Fact is, Klei Entertainment is an independent developer. All EA has done is give them a few bucks in order to get the game out on Xbox Live Arcade. Klei received no funding from EA while developing the game.

Also, I really don't think, judging by your hilarious sense of entitlement, that you gave the guys any more than five bucks, but still: "All" that money you gave to the developers directly is not going into EA's pockets.

This extreme ignorance of what a publisher really is within the gaming community really has got to stop. It used to be fun to watch you idiots go frothing at the mouths with wild claims that "Publishers are ruining the industry!!!", "I won't buy another EA game EVAR! What do you mean EA is publishing Mass Effect? Oh well, I guess I'll just buy that one. BUT NO MORE!!!" but now it's just sad.

 

[Akirai]

Hell, I thought this was going to be interesting. I get that EA isn't indie, but what do you have against it as a company?

I'm boycotting EA. Mostly because their limits on my ownership rights are unacceptable. Their aims to disable me from reselling games (firstly with invasive drm, then with online pass, now with origins) go against my fundamental rights as their customer making every deal I, and all other customers, make with them impossible to justify even if the developer is indie.
Well, until now. Humble Bundles decided the level of 'DRM'. My ownership right isn't being perverted. Theoretically I could let this one slide.
Except that, that would mean I'm not boycotting EA as they're still getting my money. Which I said I would never do until they changed their own publishing practices.
So what I've done for now is set the developer slider to zero, the hb slider to zero and the charity slider to max though I don't think that'll have any effect on the processed payment. If I have the time I'll try and contact HB to see whether the proceeds actually do go to EA or whether they are channeled directly to Koei and re-adjust my sliders.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

It is just a video game. I don't see the big deal.

You do realise you're on the Escapist, right?