XBOX 360 Slim: Dying, scamming and enraging customers already...
- Thread starter MiracleOfSound
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Even so, that doesn't absolve Microsoft of anything. The onus is just as much on them to put out good quality products as it is for consumers not to buy crap, you don't give Microsoft a free pass because a number of consumers aren't doing their part.djwolfie_14 said:
The two are interconnected, not only do you not want to buy the S because of build quality issues, but you also don't want to reward MS' crappy business practices. No reason to only mention one.
Saying not to complain is defending them, and you talking about it not being helpful winging [sic] about MS' business practices is defending them as you're effectively taking their side by telling people not to complain.
Calling someone a fanboy when they are a fanboy doesn't invalidate the argument. If you defend MS for their business practices in any fashion, you're a fanboy. It just happens to be that right now Sony's business practices for the SCE division are actually pretty good so there's not much to criticise there.
i completely agree with that statement. the point im trying to make is that even though ms are morrons and deserve all this abuse its no good talking about it here in place of having good discussions about how to get the message through to microsoft. ms dont read posts on the escapist so all that energy you are using to critisise ms on this forum is being wasted and could be put to use trying to actually tell ms how you and at least 50% of there consumers feel.migo said:
im hardly trying to reward them. i think what microsoft is doing is unacceptable. but the only way we can punish them for putting out crappy products is to stop buying them and get the word out to those that do or are thinking of buying them, that there products are faulty. i understand wanting to voice your opinion on microsofts shoddy buisness practices, but it could be put to better use than just on a forum. plus ms isnt a person. its a big emotionless, faceless, lifeless evil company. and nasty comments dont hurt a companies feelings, because they dont have any.migo said:
im not telling people not to complain. im just trying to tell people to do it in the right place and right way otherwise all your complaints are essentialy useless.migo said:
the thing is he is not defending them on anything. hes simply stating the facts. the fact that there buisness practices are crap, theres not allot we can do about that and unless they lose sales they are going to keep doing it. from my point of view he is not being a fanboy, hes not even taking sides hes just reporting an unbiased view on the facts. and besides, what a person is or there own personal views should have nothing to do with an argument. if they are such a fanboy then you should be able to tear what they are saying to shreds without needing to state that they are a fanboy.migo said:
No, I'm paying for a service. Sony is losing money on said service, thus the recent move to monetize said service with PSN Plus.IamSofaKingRaw said:
As far as cost is concerned, I understand why people in general have a problem with the concept. But, let me be frank: 50 USD is a pittance to me. It is an inconsequential sum of money made more so by the fact that it is paid on a semi-annual basis. I pay more each day for coffee than I pay for XBL. In return, I get a service that is either equal to or superior to that provided for free by PSN. While the hardware problems exist, my experience with the console has been quite pleasant over the five years of ownership. By contrast, my experience with my PS3 has been a long series of frustrations with mandatory installations that appear to do nothing to speed loading times, regular required updates that often take an hour or more to complete, software oddities that have prevented me from playing games entirely, and PSN outages or problems on a fairly regular basis. Yes, Sony made an excellent piece of hardware but their software support remains rubbish.
Really, in the ideal world, I'd like to see a console where the hardware was built by Sony and the software was provided by Microsoft as such an arrangement plays to the particular strengths of a the respective companies.
This was the biggest failure in the concept for MAG. A portion of the population in an given game had access to a headset certainly but in a game based so heavily upon the concept of working as a team to overcome obstacles that are very simply all but impossible to conquer alone, the simple fact that not every player had a headset was a troubling problem. There were other issues with the game that eventually stopped me from playing altogether, but that was mostly in the inherent problem with the endgame of the big matches where everything degenerated into simply throwing corpses into a warehouse for fifteen minutes.Labcoat Samurai said:
I had a funny image in my mind when I read your post of droves of waiting customers all standing outside of a mall when the Xbox 360 S was released, all staring at one another saying "Well I'm not buying it first!"sabercrusader said:
After having my 360 transmogrify itself into a plastic building block several times, I've learned never to buy one of Microsoft's consoles until it has been verified not to die because it is in the mood to ruin a perfectly good day.
I find it most unfortunate that the 360's lack of reliability has never been resolved and now must wear that mark.
No reason we can't do both. For the time being it's giving potential consumers 2 reasons not to buy it. #1 was the same as in 2006 - hardware failure, #2 is they're content to go back to 2005/6 instead of continuing to improve hardware quality. Now if you have a good idea on how to get the message to Microsoft, then lets do that too, but until then, trashing them on forums is plenty good.djwolfie_14 said:
Which is kinda what I, and a lot of people in this thread are doing, no?
Legally MS is a person, that's what corporation means. As for Evil, I wouldn't go quite that far, they do some good, just not in the console arena lately. I'm still quite fond of what they do with Windows, but their Xbox/Zune/Kin division is crap. They're rather like Sony in that regard, it just happens to be that Sony's counterpart to MS' entertainment division is good, while they put out just as bad hardware in their Vaio line as the 360. To date, the only thing I'm aware of that will actually influence a corporation though is purchases, or lack thereof, as you suggest, and that's done by trashing them very loudly on a forum, among other means.
Apparently we largely agree on the end result, just not on the methods to get there.
Was actually another guy I was referring to earlier, but regardless, we've already had 2 people reconsider getting an SBox due to this thread, and generally the rule is for every person who announces their displeasure with something, 10 people don't. 20 lost sales for MS isn't much, but you can bet your ass that the same thing is going on over on 50 other forums, and it's creating quite some momentum and putting a small dent in their sales, along with reinforcing Sony's position.
He didn't just state facts, he said not to complain because it's MS' perogative to make crap products. "Leave them be, they can do what they want, who are you to complain?" He didn't use those words, but that's pretty much what he was saying, and that's very similar to how someone would defend an unpopular kid getting bullied in school without getting more directly involved. Like when you don't actually like the kid getting bullied either but you feel bad for him regardless.
That's just not something I have a tendency to do. If I figure someone's a fanboy I quickly stop having an involved debate with them, 'cause if they are truly a fanboy, then there really is little point in it. It won't change their opinion, nor that of any other fanboy, and a neutral bystander won't change their opinion either, they'll have drawn their own conclusions without me saying anything.
Well it was resolved, with Jasper, but then it got un-resolved. Bummer. I was really hoping that the SBox would be more reliable than the Jasper, as competition is good for us, and 360 failure rates are half the reason the Wii took such a massive lead. On the other hand, from a selfish standpoint I also know I have the most reliable Xbox 360 model released, and when everyone else's fails I can pick up the accessories and games for cheap.SelectivelyEvil13 said:
I could be wrong, but doesn't the dvd in a games console spin much faster than an audio cd?MiracleOfSound said:
So the Jasper Models are the ones that are essentially as good as it gets? I didn't follow the change in boards around that time, so I wasn't sure if those had some problems or not. I just hope that when mymigo said:
ok first of all the "evil" statement was intentional as i was trying to higlight the common misconceptions and stereotypes that people have about corporations. after re reading i see i could have made my intentions clearer.migo said:
as for your argument. after our somewhat lengthy discussion (i wouldnt call it an argument as i dont think either of us were getting aggresive), i can see things your way and actually agree with your opinions. after reading your arguments and many other peoples posts i can see how bagging ms on a forum like this is actually contributing to the overall cause. after all, telling people about ms shoddy buisness practices and ridiculing them for treating their customers like this (i mainly speak about the xbox division as i like what their pc division is doing) is helping drop their sales, even if it is only by a small margin.
as for the whole "fanboy" debate. i still remain adament that his statements were not fanboy like. but i can also see how you could have percieved them that way and i understand why you labeled him as a fanboy.
so overall keep up the good work. maybee if enough people call ms out on their crap people will slowly stop buying these faulty products. plus im sure by putting the word out that the s 360's are faulty will hopefully save at least a few people some money, time, effort and heartache
My old xbox is about 2 years old, never had a RROD or scratched a disk. If anything my disks get scratched by me leaving them around without their DVD-cases 
I often let my xbox run for hours while i'm doing something different, so i'm not exactly treating it right either. Still, errorless so far.
I often let my xbox run for hours while i'm doing something different, so i'm not exactly treating it right either. Still, errorless so far.
No, you ate NOT paying for a service. Why would yo want to pay for something thaas free for everyone else? I want your job if you can afford to throw money around. The psn updates you speak of are not regular the last being July 27th and do physically add something new like a video editor, and the new page for PS+ subscribers on PSN. Your problems with the PS3 put you with the other 10% of people that experience problems will the Xbox 360 has a 54% failure rate. None of my games (software) have prevented me from playing and the PSN has only been down for me 1-2 over the PAST TWO YEARS. Still didn't nees to return my damn console..Eclectic Dreck said:
>grow out of the stone age
>already have HDMI flowing out the bum
>have a decent TV with a stereo system that interacts with the TV instead of individual peripherals
>keep console in a well-ventilated and well-supported area where all three vents are exposed
>use the retardedly big hard drive to install the most-played games to prevent overheating and the games from becoming useless if the Xbox eats it
>have a pleasant gaming experience with zero hassle, short loading times, and less noise
I dunno, sounds like all your problems are user error. We're living in a time where it's a technological arms race in our own living rooms. The people who keep up are the people who are obviously most interested and most likely to buy the product, so MS caters to them (and yes, for the record, I'm of the opinion that using a $ in Microsoft's name is immature and stupid [but I'm not going to make a fucking thread about it]). This is the kind of person that MS sees its customer as. A customer who has some extra income, some care for their machinery, and some common sense. Its new smaller size has made transportation ridiculously easy, and this is accomplished through a number of ways - one of which being a tightening of the ports on the back. But let's take a look at these ports, shall we?
If you use your own Xbox as a reference (I'm assuming you actually have one instead of just lying to sling some mud at the new console), you'll see there are only two pairs of ports that could possibly clash. The first is the Auxiliary output and the Ethernet port. I'm not even sure if these two clash because I'm not a cave man and I DO have Wifi. Since the Xbox has a built-in Wifi adapter, we're good. The other is an HDMI and AV... Are you seriously so dumb that you can't manage some sort of wiring or splitting so that you don't need BOTH cords plugged in? Or are you playing on a shit tier TV with no proper audio output? If either of these are your answer, then I claim user error. If you own a fancy stereo system and are not prepared with the appropriate devices to make it work properly (like AUDIO OUTPUT ON YOUR TV), then that is just old-fashioned doingitwrong.
Oh, and AGAIN with the disc-scratching? Bullshit. If you are so dumb as to turn your Xbox from horizontal to vertical or vice-versa while it is SPINNING, I should come to your house and etch an angry letter into your Xbox games myself. If your Xbox is standing vertically (which is already ill-advised), then it should be SECURE! This one isn't TOO bad of a mark on you, as an earthquake or something can knock it over, but still... Take some precaution, will you? Even if it DOES eat your disc, you have a MASSIVE hard drive on which you can install all of your favorite games. Once you do this, you can use a fucked disc to play the game. My friend does it with Red Dead Redemption all the time.
Also, those are the cheapest shots at Kinect I've ever seen someone take. I think it's over-priced but to complain that you can't wear baggy clothes or sit down is ridiculous. Were you mad when you got the Wii and found out you had to point it at the TV to make it go?
Seriously, cry more. I know I am going to incur moderator wrath as a result of this, but this has to be the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever seen someone try and feed as proof that a company is some sort of tyrant who holds contempt for its constituents.
>already have HDMI flowing out the bum
>have a decent TV with a stereo system that interacts with the TV instead of individual peripherals
>keep console in a well-ventilated and well-supported area where all three vents are exposed
>use the retardedly big hard drive to install the most-played games to prevent overheating and the games from becoming useless if the Xbox eats it
>have a pleasant gaming experience with zero hassle, short loading times, and less noise
I dunno, sounds like all your problems are user error. We're living in a time where it's a technological arms race in our own living rooms. The people who keep up are the people who are obviously most interested and most likely to buy the product, so MS caters to them (and yes, for the record, I'm of the opinion that using a $ in Microsoft's name is immature and stupid [but I'm not going to make a fucking thread about it]). This is the kind of person that MS sees its customer as. A customer who has some extra income, some care for their machinery, and some common sense. Its new smaller size has made transportation ridiculously easy, and this is accomplished through a number of ways - one of which being a tightening of the ports on the back. But let's take a look at these ports, shall we?
If you use your own Xbox as a reference (I'm assuming you actually have one instead of just lying to sling some mud at the new console), you'll see there are only two pairs of ports that could possibly clash. The first is the Auxiliary output and the Ethernet port. I'm not even sure if these two clash because I'm not a cave man and I DO have Wifi. Since the Xbox has a built-in Wifi adapter, we're good. The other is an HDMI and AV... Are you seriously so dumb that you can't manage some sort of wiring or splitting so that you don't need BOTH cords plugged in? Or are you playing on a shit tier TV with no proper audio output? If either of these are your answer, then I claim user error. If you own a fancy stereo system and are not prepared with the appropriate devices to make it work properly (like AUDIO OUTPUT ON YOUR TV), then that is just old-fashioned doingitwrong.
Oh, and AGAIN with the disc-scratching? Bullshit. If you are so dumb as to turn your Xbox from horizontal to vertical or vice-versa while it is SPINNING, I should come to your house and etch an angry letter into your Xbox games myself. If your Xbox is standing vertically (which is already ill-advised), then it should be SECURE! This one isn't TOO bad of a mark on you, as an earthquake or something can knock it over, but still... Take some precaution, will you? Even if it DOES eat your disc, you have a MASSIVE hard drive on which you can install all of your favorite games. Once you do this, you can use a fucked disc to play the game. My friend does it with Red Dead Redemption all the time.
Also, those are the cheapest shots at Kinect I've ever seen someone take. I think it's over-priced but to complain that you can't wear baggy clothes or sit down is ridiculous. Were you mad when you got the Wii and found out you had to point it at the TV to make it go?
Seriously, cry more. I know I am going to incur moderator wrath as a result of this, but this has to be the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever seen someone try and feed as proof that a company is some sort of tyrant who holds contempt for its constituents.
