Yes, Another thread about a girl.

[fishman279]

I know everyone must be bored of these by now, but I'm so confused I have no idea who to turn to.

Basically, there's this girl, she's in my class and I met her about 3 months ago. Long story short, I developed feelings for her, and everyone who saw us together thought we were dating, because we were so close, she would let me stroke her thigh, she would rest her head on my shoulder, she asked me round her house to meet her parents... I was so sure that she liked me too. I asked her out, and at first she said that she saw me as a friend. I was gutted, but I would've been fine with that, I would have moved on. But afterwards she starts telling me that she had these "moments" with me where she thought to herself that we should go out and how she's never been this close to a boy in her life. Then she starts giving me other reasons, like how she doesn't want to grow up yet and that she hates change.... Things like that. That was 2 days ago.

We sat down for two hours just now, talking about it all, because we have been stuck in a vicious circle of sadness ever since (She feels guilty, so she's sad, so I'm sad that I've made her sad, which makes her guilty...) where she admits to me that she's "on the fence", leaning towards friendship but she admits that there's something between us and that she envisages something to happen between us "some day". Then without warning she got quite upset (read: crying her eyes out) after a while about not wanting anything to change (as in, her life, leaving home etc), so I calm her down, as usual. She left me tonight with a distraught look on her face, kissing me on the cheek and saying "I'm so confused."

So basically I have no idea what to do, I thought I'd been friendzoned but... Now I just feel that even SHE doesn't know what she wants. I don't know... Any help at all would be appreciated because I am just so confused about it all. Thanks.

 

[EpicEps]

I wish I knew the perfect advice. But girls are complex. If I were to put myself into her shoes, I know I would be really confused too. She's allowing very relationship-like behaviour, but is still denying that there is a relationship. You're also confused because you don't know how to interpret her behaviour. My recommendation would be to let her calm down and give her a day to breathe, and then talk about it again. Meanwhile, just remain her "friend." Even if you are friendzoned from this incident, if you remain her "friend" then you can still hang out with her and she may eventually change her mind.

 

[Orinon]

 

[fishman279]

I wish I knew the perfect advice. But girls are complex. If I were to put myself into her shoes, I know I would be really confused too. She's allowing very relationship-like behaviour, but is still denying that there is a relationship. You're also confused because you don't know how to interpret her behaviour. My recommendation would be to let her calm down and give her a day to breathe, and then talk about it again. Meanwhile, just remain her "friend." Even if you are friendzoned from this incident, if you remain her "friend" then you can still hang out with her and she may eventually change her mind.

Thanks for the reply. It's actually some great advice, except for the fact that "giving her a day to breathe" will be rather hard. I'm in her class (we sit next to each other a couple of times a week) and she keeps trying to carry on as if nothing has changed (IE: Asking to sit next to me, talking to me, etc) knowing full well how I feel. She keeps asking me to not be "awkward", but if I act exactly like before, it would only end up hurting me because she doesn't feel the same (maybe). It's the weekend now so I might just not talk to her for a couple of days (She sends me messages every night), but I mentioned I was going away these christmas holidays to a place with nointernet and her reaction was to be sad for half an hour because "she's going to miss me".

I have told her everything already. She knows exactly how I feel.

 

[TheBanMan_v1legacy]

In the end you need to look out for yourself. I don't mean this to be harsh to your friend, or advising you to be mean to her by any means.

Based on what you have said I am going under the assumption you are both rather young; not in and of itself a bad thing but it does mean that you are both still in that "finding who I really am" part.

She sounds like she is afraid that if you become more than friends and things don't work out she will lose what you have; that if you remain in this grey area you can somehow have the best of both worlds. Given the results so far I would say that's not an option. Any relationship that begins as friends runs this risk, though. It comes down to are you willing to risk it?

The best advice I can give is to decide what you can live with. That is can you accept being only friends with her or not. I would be careful before making this decision as, if you do decide to be just friends, you need to leave it at just that. Don't torture yourself or get caught up in the "maybe one day" mentality as you will more than likely get hurt.

If you decide you can't be just friends, then you need to move on if she does not want more.

I'm not trying to oversimplify things as I know full well how hard either decision is. In this respect I've made the tough choice both ways in my life with different people. Take the time you will be away to decide what's going to be best for you. It may be hard/hurt in the short term, but in the end you will be happier for it.

 

[fishman279]

In the end you need to look out for yourself. I don't mean this to be harsh to your friend, or advising you to be mean to her by any means.

Based on what you have said I am going under the assumption you are both rather young; not in and of itself a bad thing but it does mean that you are both still in that "finding who I really am" part.

She sounds like she is afraid that if you become more than friends and things don't work out she will lose what you have; that if you remain in this grey area you can somehow have the best of both worlds. Given the results so far I would say that's not an option. Any relationship that begins as friends runs this risk, though. It comes down to are you willing to risk it?

The best advice I can give is to decide what you can live with. That is can you accept being only friends with her or not. I would be careful before making this decision as, if you do decide to be just friends, you need to leave it at just that. Don't torture yourself or get caught up in the "maybe one day" mentality as you will more than likely get hurt.

If you decide you can't be just friends, then you need to move on if she does not want more.

I'm not trying to oversimplify things as I know full well how hard either decision is. In this respect I've made the tough choice both ways in my life with different people. Take the time you will be away to decide what's going to be best for you. It may be hard/hurt in the short term, but in the end you will be happier for it.

I'm 17 and she's 16 so I guess you could say we're kind of young. The thing is, she's never had a boyfriend and good friends have asked her out before and she's lost them as friends. When I ask her if she's worried the same will happen with me, she tells me "You're different...special.". What you said about her wanting to stay in a grey area really has hit the nail on the head, and I don't feel it's very fair on me. I'm willing to risk losing it, but I think she's too scared to (This of course is complete guesswork) and I think staying just friends with her would hurt me too much in the long run. Do you suggest simply giving her an ultimatum when I see her again on monday? Either take the risk and go out with me or lose what we've got? Thing is though, this probably is my feelings for her talking, but I don't really want to lose her. I think if she decides not to I'll need some time away from her to get over her, then we can carry on being friends. I'd need to explain that to her though. So confusing.

 

[TheBanMan_v1legacy]

I wish there was a black and white answer to give you, I really do. What I have learned is that when it comes to matters of the heart there rarely is. Take my advice for what it is, advice. In the end you have to do what you feel is right.

That being said, I'd still say take the time to think through what you want. I know it would be hard to lose a good friend but, if you can't only be just that, you are only looking to hurt yourself and her.

If you choose the friend route, which is a perfectly viable option, there is always the possibility that it will develop into more down the road on its own. I would just say you go into it with your eyes open. Don't make this choice thinking this is a foregone conclusion.

Picture this: You decide that you are ok with just being friends... A few months down the road she comes to you and says she has a boyfriend. How would you feel? Would you be ok with that? If so, great. Having a close friend is a wonderful thing.

In addition, if you make this choice, I would be careful about that grey zone. It's an easy one to fall back into. If things like her resting her head on your shoulder, etc make you feel there is more, you need to speak up (gently, of course) and set the boundaries.

If you decide the other way, I'm not a big fan of the ultimatum as it can lead to resentment. If she says yes to a relationship based on an ultimatum it will more than likely cause some hostility down the road as she felt forced into it.

I suppose it comes down to how you present it to her. If you out and out say "Relationship or bust" I'd expect nothing good to come of it. If you take the time to explain to her how much you value the friendship, but you have feelings for her and you know for your own happiness that you can't just be friends with her (etc, etc... Expect a long conversation here) and see where things go. If you do this you have to be prepared to accept that she may decide that's not what she wants.

There are very few certainties in life. No relationship, whether it started as friends or otherwise, is risk free. It comes down to whether both of you (emphasis on BOTH) decide that the risk of becoming more outweighs the risk of losing what you have.

 

[EpicEps]

I wish I knew the perfect advice. But girls are complex. If I were to put myself into her shoes, I know I would be really confused too. She's allowing very relationship-like behaviour, but is still denying that there is a relationship. You're also confused because you don't know how to interpret her behaviour. My recommendation would be to let her calm down and give her a day to breathe, and then talk about it again. Meanwhile, just remain her "friend." Even if you are friendzoned from this incident, if you remain her "friend" then you can still hang out with her and she may eventually change her mind.

Thanks for the reply. It's actually some great advice, except for the fact that "giving her a day to breathe" will be rather hard. I'm in her class (we sit next to each other a couple of times a week) and she keeps trying to carry on as if nothing has changed (IE: Asking to sit next to me, talking to me, etc) knowing full well how I feel. She keeps asking me to not be "awkward", but if I act exactly like before, it would only end up hurting me because she doesn't feel the same (maybe). It's the weekend now so I might just not talk to her for a couple of days (She sends me messages every night), but I mentioned I was going away these christmas holidays to a place with nointernet and her reaction was to be sad for half an hour because "she's going to miss me".

TheBanMan has a really good point about being aware about what you're getting into by just remaining friends. There are going to be consequences and difficulties, whatever you choose. Be very clear about what your relationship with this girl is going to be, whether just friends or intimate, and make sure you both know.

And you don't have to ignore her completely, what I meant by letting her breathe was to not push on the change in your relationship with her until you both are ready. If you don't feel that you can act the same without it hurting you, tell her that. You need to keep yourself happy, to make her happy. There's a very good song lyric that says "You gotta love yourself/ if you can ever love me" and that seems to fit with what you're going through. You still don't know how she feels about you, so keep your head up and your heart prepared.

 

[fishman279]

snip

Well that has certainly given me a lot to think about. I think that if, in a few months, she told me she had a boyfriend, I would be absolutely distraught. Especially seeing as her not wanting to "grow up" and her having a lot on at the moment were two of the reasons she gave me (literally saying "not....now."). I'm going to sound outrageously selfish here, which is not my intention, but I don't see her being with anyone else. We just seem to "click" with ease, the way I did before I went out with other girls. But in the end, as you said, it's her decision.

I think that if I stayed doing what I'm doing, acting like before, I would be being two-faced: saying/acting like I'm a friend yet always hoping for more, which in the end wouldn't be a pleasant experience. I don't want to give her an ultimatum but I just don't see how else I can do it. I've sat down and talked to her about it, she knows exactly what's going through my head, yet continues to... do what she's doing. The thing that troubles me the most in all this is her admitting that there is something between us and that she can see us going out "some day". I don't want to wait for her for 2 years then for her to decide that we are only friends, I don't want to lose someone who has become really important to me though, by saying that it's a relationship or bust. I need to have a long hard think about it.

Could you tell me what you would do in this situation? It'd help me a lot, a lot of my friends are saying to me that she's being really unfair on me and that I should cut her off for a month to make her realise how important I am to her (My best friend put it: Bring her down from fairy-land).

 

[fishman279]

TheBanMan has a really good point about being aware about what you're getting into by just remaining friends. There are going to be consequences and difficulties, whatever you choose. Be very clear about what your relationship with this girl is going to be, whether just friends or intimate, and make sure you both know.

And you don't have to ignore her completely, what I meant by letting her breathe was to not push on the change in your relationship with her until you both are ready. If you don't feel that you can act the same without it hurting you, tell her that. You need to keep yourself happy, to make her happy. There's a very good song lyric that says "You gotta love yourself/ if you can ever love me" and that seems to fit with what you're going through. You still don't know how she feels about you, so keep your head up and your heart prepared.

So basically you're saying that I should carry on like normal, as if nothing happened, to let her know that's how I feel and how it isn't going to change (she actually already knows this), and leave it for a while? That is do-able seeing as the christmas holidays are coming up and I'm not going to see her for a few weeks.

 

[TheBanMan_v1legacy]

It seems to me she has been clear with you, it's just not the answer you were looking for. You note she has said she can see you two going out "some day" when she is ready, but she is not ready right now. The latter part of that is the key.

To me this says you know her feelings. It's unfortunate she has left that hook in you with the "some day" comment, but it's now up to you.

Ask yourself this: Are you willing to hang on being just friends for an indeterminate amount of time for the possibility (note: not guarantee) that she will become ready, and that it will be you she is ready with? It's easy to think she wouldn't choose someone else, but you don't know that. People change, especially at the age you are.

If you are ok, great. Just be prepared to live with your decision and not force the issue with her. Don't hold it over her head; don't bring it up every week; don't mention it at all.

If not, then it's time to move on. Not easy, but what needs to be done. No discussion necessary; no ultimatum; you know her thoughts.

Either way at least you have made the decision with a clear idea of what to expect.

Before I state what I would do you need to realize something. I am in a different age range/point in my life than you are. This does play into it, so take the following with a grain of salt it deserves.

What would I do? Or what advice would I give to my 17 yr old self? I would move on. Who knows what the future may bring; it may even see the two of you reconnecting at a later point, but you are denying yourself the chance of a relationship with someone who is ready.

 

[Kasten]

There was once a guy and a girl. Nerdy reclusive guy is dragged to a party by two best friends, and meets girl who they also brought there. Hits off. Helps girl get out of bad relationship, talks almost always, weeks later, they're together. Month later, breakup, sadness, but the friendship remains. Repeat this eight times with varying timescales and same two people, within a year, three years later, they're still friends.

This is not a good scenario, I'm just saying, that friendship lasted. You can make any friendship last if you want. So decide if you're willing to accept friendship if you try the relationship and it doesn't work. If you mean that, and you tell her that, and you let her know that you're willing to stick to her. If she trusts you that should be enough.

Then again, I was the guy in the story. Just trying to help.

Good luck.

 

[Uncleblaze]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'VE DONE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!

NEVER NEVER EVER HOLD IT IN. ITS NOT WHAT YOU SAY THAT YOU'LL REGRET FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE ITS WHAT YOU DON'T SAY! FUN FACT WOMEN ARE CONFUSED 90% OF THE TIME! some times you HAVE to push and you have to tell them with good reason why they should want to be with you. TELL HER ITS WORTH THE RISK.

Man up tell her how much you care about her and don't hold anything back! you know she's into you she's just hesitant from past relationships that go down the drain. who knows it might not work out between you two! BUT YOUR KIDS! you dont have to pay tax's, your not married and above all now's the time you guys will be able to spend the most time together in your lifes. Enjoy it while its going strong. It can all work out, but you will never know unless you try. If you tell her its okay to just stay friends then your saying its alright for another guy to put his hands all over her. its okay for her to tell another guy all her secrets. its okay for you to be the best man at her wedding. that its okay for them to kiss in front of you. when you allow yourself to fall into that friend zone THAT is what will happen. I know because it's happened to me. she'll listen to you, you just have to say the word. Its not over until you give up.

 

[fishman279]

Quick update to the situation. Yesterday we hung out as normal, having a real laugh together, just like before I told her how I felt. Last night she sends me a song, which lyrics are all about "taking chances" (I may be reading into it a bit too much here), and we also have a little "moment" where she told me that "this mutual obsession we have for each other" is scary but that it's "a good scary ". After telling me she wants to be friends, why would she say that she's obsessed with me? This girl is insane.

snip

Thanks man, you've been great. I'll have a think on what you said, it's a very interesting point of view that I hadn't considered.

snip

snip

Right, I get what you guys are saying here, but I don't think that it's 100% just her being scared it could go wrong and ruin the friendship. I think that's HALF the reason, the other half being "He's just a friend" (A mentality she has when we're together at school, IE: 95% of the time, that changes when we're alone together away from school). But you guys did make me realise something. I never actually reassured her that we would stay friends even if the worst did happen, that might have... done something. I think I should give her some space before talking about it again though, give her some time to "cool down" a bit.

 

[Uncleblaze]

if you think giving her time is the best idea then go for it. But don't give her too much time because then she will straight up get over that idea of you two being in a relationship. once she's made that very clear to herself... well there are other fish in the sea. thx for the update.

 

[fishman279]

if you think giving her time is the best idea then go for it. But don't give her too much time because then she will straight up get over that idea of you two being in a relationship. once she's made that very clear to herself... well there are other fish in the sea. thx for the update.

I think giving her a week (until the christmas holidays), where I act like normal (like before), then, as I will have limited access to the internet when I go on holiday this christmas, hardly talk to her online for a couple of weeks, maybe it'll make her realise how important I am to her, she has already said that she's really going to miss me (again, why?). After then I can talk to her about it again, maybe get a more... sure answer from her.

 

[Jedoro]

Right, I get what you guys are saying here, but I don't think that it's 100% just her being scared it could go wrong and ruin the friendship. I think that's HALF the reason, the other half being "He's just a friend" (A mentality she has when we're together at school, IE: 95% of the time, that changes when we're alone together away from school). But you guys did make me realise something. I never actually reassured her that we would stay friends even if the worst did happen, that might have... done something. I think I should give her some space before talking about it again though, give her some time to "cool down" a bit.

Yes. Very yes. If you think that was her main concern, tell her you'll be friends still if you don't go out. And then actually be her friend if this doesn't work.

 

[fishman279]

Another update for you guys, she has now insisted on coming over to my place before I go on holiday (IE: next monday) so she can "meet my parents". Seeing as the last time we were alone she thought of us as more than friends, I thought it best not to refuse.

Yes. Very yes. If you think that was her main concern, tell her you'll be friends still if you don't go out. And then actually be her friend if this doesn't work.

As I said before, I don't think it's the MAIN reason for her being hesitant. It's 50-50 with that "He's just a friend" frame of mind she has, even though at times she wants more. It's a kind of grey area between friendship and a relationship. But yes, I think I'm going to tell her this when she comes around mine, now that about 4 people have recommended it to me, that will have given her a week and a bit to cool down a bit too.

 

[Jedoro]

Another update for you guys, she has now insisted on coming over to my place before I go on holiday (IE: next monday) so she can "meet my parents". Seeing as the last time we were alone she thought of us as more than friends, I thought it best not to refuse.

Yes. Very yes. If you think that was her main concern, tell her you'll be friends still if you don't go out. And then actually be her friend if this doesn't work.

As I said before, I don't think it's the MAIN reason for her being hesitant. It's 50-50 with that "He's just a friend" frame of mind she has, even though at times she wants more. It's a kind of grey area between friendship and a relationship. But yes, I think I'm going to tell her this when she comes around mine, now that about 4 people have recommended it to me, that will have given her a week and a bit to cool down a bit too.

Didn't say it was, just reinforcing the idea of specifying this.

 

[Insanum]

Just have fun? Tell her you want to go out with her, and then just go out and have fun.

Dont worry about being 'boyfriend and girlfriend', just go out and have fun[/I]. She'll make her mind up eventually.