You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist

[meisnewbie]

Again, to point out, the rape games in question being banned you have minimal interaction in terms of button presses etc, which makes things a bit different.

Furthermore, the rape games in question come from a larger subsection of eroge (the descendants of Dating Sims such as Capcom's Tokimeki Memorial Series, Sega's Sakura Taisen) where the protagonist isn't meant to necessarily embody heroic ideals (I'd be hard pressed to find anything overly heroic in the relatively tame Kanon as the game is a more personal story) so it's a fallacy to presupppose that the protagonists perform ideals to aspire to.

The Green Goblin makes a good point here, which I have to elaborate on:

"I find this unlikely. Every other crime in gaming is justified by some paper-thin explanation, usually "I'm saving the world." What makes rape sacrosanct? Is it because the victims are so traumatized? The difference between rape and murder is not the magnitude of the after effects, but only on who experiences them. Rape victims hold it themselves, in murder the trauma passes to all loved ones.

A more direct proof would be a rape-justifying plotline. I'll invent one right now. Rape Cell. Your squad has captured a bunch of sexy terrorists that planted bombs in New York, Paris, London, and Tokyo. If you don't "interrogate" them hard and fast, they won't reveal the exact locations of the bombs and how to disarm them. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a saved world with zero kills, zero drops of blood spilled. "

Essentially, it's only because we've been exposed to violence and murder as a means of conflict resolution that we think it's fine at all. Why is it somehow better to save the earth from the Combine through headshots rather than unwilling penetration? And, (if the spirit of the article is to be obeyed) would it be just as fine to rape your way to save the human race?

And finally, to nitpick, many of our Heroes DID rape and were glorified for it. Achilles abandons the invading Greek army over a captured woman. Gilgamesh was well known for deflowering married women on the first night. It's completely silly to pretend that the subjugation of women wasn't glorified in mythology.

 

[nikomas1]

I would like to play that holocaust tycoon, sounds like something different, I would also like a game played from the point of a terrorist...
What...? Don't look at me like that, I just like being the "bad" guy.

 

[thehen]

It's strange how humans are the only animals on earth to which rape isn't a logical means of reproduction. If anything, murder is more illogical than rape (biologically) because it hinders the progression of humanity.

That said, as with everything of this nature, it's the societal conventions which shape the perceptions. If rape was commonplace, victims wouldnt be psychologically affected because that affection would be the norm.

I have seen masterpieces in other media that glorify rape as a means to develop a narrative. I think given time, extreme acts of depravity will be used in games as it is in other medium.

However I cant really see any benefit to a game in which the entire USP is built around rape. That sounds more like a quick cash in on controversy.

 

[MisterColeman]

This isn't anything new, ever hear of Virgin Roster? Nobody made a big deal about that, maybe because they didn't put rape in the title.

 

[Geoffrey42]

Also because rape is worse than murder. It's torture not only on a physical level, but on the psychological and deep emotional level as well.

Mass murders in GTA4 are mindless; bang bang and little sprites fall over, maybe some fake blood... that's it. But to actually simulate rape... you'd have to get a lot more personal.

It's just not the same...

Any torturer worth his salt knows that good torture isn't just physical.

Murder could be simulated at a closer level, but I don't know that it would sell enough (smaller market for murder fetish, I imagine). Would virtual rape be better if it were lower fidelity, or more distanced from your avatar? Maybe an option in an RTS to allow your barbarian horde to rape the women-folk of the village you just conquered (with a loyalty bonus to your horde, and a submission bonus to the locals). I mean, after all, it is very small, pixelated, widespread rape, which you told "someone else" to do, instead of personal rape.

When you say "It's just not the same...", you're right, rape and murder are not universal equivalents, but what's important in this context is whether or not there are specific grounds for censoring/legislating against rape in virtual scenarios which somehow make it different from other violence in virtual scenarios and rape in other media (ignoring omega 616's argument, which I tried to undercut in advance, because if you want to apply that rubric to rape, you should be applying the same rubric to murder as well, and nobody seems to want to think about that).

If rape was commonplace, victims wouldnt be psychologically affected because that affection would be the norm.

Not that I disagree with you entirely, but I think your premise is flawed. Our perceptions of normality are shaped by societal conventions, etc. Sure. But rape would still psychologically affect people. It would just be the norm for people to have psychological trauma from rape. This is like saying that children during the heyday of corporal punishment never suffered psychological trauma: they did, that trauma was just part of what shaped the average, expected, "well-balanced", normal person. Similar to saying that slaves didn't experience trauma when slavery was the norm; they did, it was just expected.

 

[Hoxton]

Just responding to the question in the OP: Because murder can be justified.
See also: Dexter.

Rape can never serve a good purpose.

And now to read.

EDIT: Well fuck. It looks like you pretty much agree completely.
That's actually a bit weird.
Or maybe it's just a more common viewpoint than I thought.

\

you actually used Dexter as an example? lol

 

[Doug]

Rape games are essentially interactive porn: that is their purpose, the intent behind their creation.

That having been said: porn is legal in the US, even the raping variety. So I fail to see us having any right to criticize the Japanese.

Not legal in the UK anymore. "Extreme" porn was banned - not sure where they draw the line, but I think its something like "If its showing a pausible situation of sexual assault, its illegal. i.e. 'rape' porn featuring obvious fake silliness like mind control machines made from a saucepan and christmas tree lights is probably legal.

 

[Hoxton]

It's strange how humans are the only animals on earth to which rape isn't a logical means of reproduction. If anything, murder is more illogical than rape (biologically) because it hinders the progression of humanity.

Depends on who you're murdering.

you actually used Dexter as an example? lol

As I've said earlier in this thread: I can't think of a real-life example, but if Dexter were a real person, I would support him completely.

As much as i like Dexter as a personality and like the series... I can only say that that's fucked up. That's a plain 'the purpose justify the means' situation and i just don't agree with it.

Edit: Welcome to Page 7

 

[Agent Larkin]

The big old differnece between rape and muder is simple. If your the victim of a murder your dead game over. If you are a victim of rape you have to live with the memory and fear that it can happen again. And while i know some people onthis website are "evil" nobody is that cruel to torment someon like that.

 

[thehen]

The big old differnece between rape and muder is simple. If your the victim of a murder your dead game over. If you are a victim of rape you have to live with the memory and fear that it can happen again. And while i know some people onthis website are "evil" nobody is that cruel to torment someon like that.

I would rather be raped than have a relative murdered, I think that would torment me a great deal more.

 

[Agent Larkin]

The big old differnece between rape and muder is simple. If your the victim of a murder your dead game over. If you are a victim of rape you have to live with the memory and fear that it can happen again. And while i know some people onthis website are "evil" nobody is that cruel to torment someon like that.

I would rather be raped than have a relative murdered, I think that would torment me a great deal more.

I can understand that but I was talking from the viewpoint of a direct victim specificly

 

[Valentine82]

Allow me to make my argument as clear as possible.

Humans are more prone to act out sexual fantasies than they are violent fantasies.

Why? Partly because biology places a higher imperative on reproductive behavior than violent behavior, that's what propagates the species. Studies also show that sexual fetishes get stronger the more they are indulged in most cases. Because these Rape Games are explicitly pornographic in nature, they nurture sexual fetishes involving rape and also nurture fantasies involving rape, most commonly against women.

The inescapable conclusion is that the more people have their fetishes and fantasies to sexually assault other human beings nurtured, the more likely people are to commit rape.

This is not the case with mere violence in entertainment. I'll gladly concede that studies have shown that people become desensitized to violence and often less responsive to injustices or violent crimes when they are exposed to frequent violent entertainment. This typically means that people will be less upset if there's a murderer on the loose, unless they themselves feel threatened.

Why? Well, one good reason is that humans are both a competitive and cooperative species. We have, since the dawn of time, separated ourselves into "Us" and "Them." We also separate ourselves into "myself" and "everyone else" and tend to be self interested much of the time. This allows us to survive in hostile environments and go to war with other tribes for resources and dominance, but it also means we're less likely to go out and put ourselves into unnecessary danger unless prompted to do so (unless we have a disorder, and FYI thrill seekers typically have a chemical imbalance).

 

[Valentine82]

By the way it still interest me that all the people in favor of simulated rape are men. Having a naturally larger build means most people who would rape you would be about the same size as you and you'd at least have a fighting chance, so you're likely less worried about getting raped than a 5'6 100 lb girl would be.

Five Words. Death Penalty for all Rapist.

 

[Valentine82]

I would rather be murdered than raped. Of course, I'm going to try to kill anyone who attempts either, more girls should.

I say if anyone ever tries to rape me I just hope he can live without his testicles, because I'll crush them and try to rip them off... Knife to my throat, fine, I'll still try to claw your F****** eyes out, I don't care if you kill me I'm not going down without a fight.

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

Good point, rape cannot be justified and serves no real purpose. I wouldn't really care if there was rape in a game though simply because it's a work of fiction.

 

[Daveman]

You can be a hero and a rapist... if you're The Comedian.

 

[BGH122]

Okay, for all of you holding rape up as some sort of untouchable awful crime that deserves mass media attention should it ever be brought into gaming consider the following: On Fallout 3 I can kill a child's parents and cannibalise them both in front of the child, yet you never hear any clamour for Fallout to be banned.