You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist
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This article really hits the nail on the head. In most circumstances, someone who kills is no better than someone who rapes - they are both crimes of violence that destroy (literally or otherwise) the lives of their victims. But in the real world, soldiers and the like are faced with the necessity of killing their enemy - enemies that would kill them given the chance. Rape however serves no goal other than its inherent violence. A soldier should not rape even if he is required to kill - the crimes are no lesser, but one is a justifiable fact of life and the other a simple expression of individual barbarity and the wish to cause harm to another human being.
In my view, if you were to ban games featuring rape, then games where the objective is cold, calculated murder (Manhunt) should also be banned. Heck, in KOTOR you can kill for the hell of it and I don't remember much outrage concerning that.
In my view, if you were to ban games featuring rape, then games where the objective is cold, calculated murder (Manhunt) should also be banned. Heck, in KOTOR you can kill for the hell of it and I don't remember much outrage concerning that.
Murder has been shown to be accepted as an inevitablity in society where as rape has not been. ((And personally should not be.))
Murder victims don't suffer PTSD for the rest of their lives, Rape Victims do.
I can imagine a thousand things worse than being killed by the way, that the writer of that article can't only shows what a limited imagination he has... By the way, the game in question uses Rape as a pornographic device, and psychology of how people tend to develop sexual fetishes simply makes it a bad idea for simulated rape to be an available medium of pornography.
Anyway, want to have rape in games and argue that it's no big deal since murder is in games? I say we institute life imprisonment or the death penalty for all rapist then.
I'm not afraid of some psycho killer coming at me with laser guns and chainsaws, but I do have to worry about some misogynistic guy trying to violate me if he thinks he can get away with it, and if one ever tries I hope he can live without his testicles because I'll rip them off and dig my nails into his eye sockets
I can imagine a thousand things worse than being killed by the way, that the writer of that article can't only shows what a limited imagination he has... By the way, the game in question uses Rape as a pornographic device, and psychology of how people tend to develop sexual fetishes simply makes it a bad idea for simulated rape to be an available medium of pornography.
Anyway, want to have rape in games and argue that it's no big deal since murder is in games? I say we institute life imprisonment or the death penalty for all rapist then.
I'm not afraid of some psycho killer coming at me with laser guns and chainsaws, but I do have to worry about some misogynistic guy trying to violate me if he thinks he can get away with it, and if one ever tries I hope he can live without his testicles because I'll rip them off and dig my nails into his eye sockets
By the way I find it interesting that almost all of the people arguing in favor of simulated rape are male. I guess men just don't have to worry about it as often.
I'm not sure if this is irrelevent now, but I don't think that was a spelling mistake;t was supposed to say never - the article was about how the writer believes that, although censorship is bad, there should be a judgement based on context in the game. His point was also that there should be a distinction between rape and murder, since murder could be in self-defence, for example, whereas rape cannot be justified (this specific example wasn't in the article by the way).Tenmar said:
On topic, I completely agree with the article. I know it's been said alot, but my obsessive compulsive side needed to sort that out ^.
I don't think that rape is ever right regardless of gender. The men out there that are raped have a harder time of being understood by the public that it actually does happen and its as much a violation to them as when it happens to women.Valentine82 said:
The thing is, Women Raping Men is rare partly because it's difficult. Women are sometimes raped by other women, men are sometimes raped by other men, but normally cross gender rape involves a woman being violated by a man. If by men being raped you're referring to willing underaged male students on the other hand, I don't consider that rape at all, and think we need a new term for that sort of thing.Harbinger_ said:
I'm aware of only a few cases in which women have actually raped men, most of them involving some sort of bondage and more than a few involving viagra... Anyway, yeah, when I suggest the death penalty or life in prison for rapist, I mean for any person who physically forces himself or herself onto another and sexually violates him/her. The definitions would need to be hammered out of course (that's part of why Rape Laws are so lax, it's because they're so vague).
Typically torture in videogames acts as an outlet for the same type of sadistic tendencies that drives one to enjoy murder in videogames. I'm not aware of an actual torture sim and if there were a game to depict torture the way some of our entertainment media does (IE Saw, Hostel) I would be concerned.LimaBravo said:Rape and murder are seperate entities, they are not comparable. For a start.
For those attempting to play devils advocate torture is a far better analogy. These games dont attempt to make you the hero, they are puerile titillation for impotent men.
The logic of the point is here:-
The same train of reasoning would apply to a torture sim. This is all completely ignoring that killing in a computer game isnt murder it is a component of a games rules. (BTW you do have to run people over in GTA sometimes they drop moneyValentine82 said:
Rape is in a different field of human experience, driven largely by lust and power (typically power over women). People are more likely to enact sexual fantasies than violent fantasies as well, these are just a few reasons rape should not be depicted graphically and/or pornographically in videogames.
To me, rape's no big deal. I am a Nihilist, however, so nothing's a big deal for me. Except Michael Bay.
And thus the media have another 'video games are evil' bandwagon to jump on. I thought they'd been too quite lately.
"No." isn't an argument. In fact, by admitting you'd ordinarily agree with the above sentiments, you invalidate your post. "Good and evil are just constructs of humanity.... except in the case of rape, where they suddenly spring into actual provable existence, and if you disagree with me, you are wrong..." Uh-huh.Erana said:
What's "this" culture? Cyberculture? Gamer culture? European culture? American culture? Australian culture? Because I dwell within a country which is part of a culture, does that mean I must think as it does? I'm not allowed to hold a different opinion? And supposedly I'm the sick one...
Rape is not any more "wrong" than murder or genocide, and if you feel the need to label me sick or disgusting, then that's a logical shortcoming of yours, not mine.
Argue well enough and long enough you can justify anything its called Sophistry it existed since classical Athens. The entire point of Plato Philosophy (one of the founder of Philosophy) on many levels was to refute the Sophistry. Generally the conclusion is that you accept a higher order of unchanging laws that create unchanging morals (god is not necessary here) or you don't and everything is in flux and context dependent. (i personally fall in the latter line of thought but respect the wish for the first conclusion)
Rape games are essentially interactive porn: that is their purpose, the intent behind their creation.
That having been said: porn is legal in the US, even the raping variety. So I fail to see us having any right to criticize the Japanese.
Also, one must wonder at the source of the uproar behind this: is it that the rapes are in the games, that they can be performed (as in, they are interactive), or that they are the goal?
In the case of the first option, I would like to remind everyone that rape has been a common factor used in both art, music, and movies for quite some time now (the latter especially so if you're a vivid watcher of Lifetime Movies like my mother is). So before you ban rape in games, you must ban it in all mediums.
With regards to the second option: I think that this isn't the real issue people draw with the game either. If rape were put into the game as a tool for pushing the storyline, or just as an extra option added to a sandbox game like GTA (as in, it would be a extra thing to do, and not the overall objective), people would get angry, but not as angry as they are now. That's just being realistic: we can't say NO USING RAPE to game developers, because that's discrimination against the medium. It's in the same school of thought as the Hide Your Children [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HideYourChildren] trope of game development, and I object to that. Why should we tell people that they can't use rape or child violence in games when they could be used to tell a story or make a point?
When venturing into the third option, I must say that my morals make me inclined to agree: rape as the goal of a game is disgusting. But should we generally ban rape in games just because of this? Or more importantly: why should we when rape is used in other forms of media?
I think that rape in games, for better or worse, is here to stay. All we can do is use our wallets to decide the context in which it is used.
That having been said: porn is legal in the US, even the raping variety. So I fail to see us having any right to criticize the Japanese.
Also, one must wonder at the source of the uproar behind this: is it that the rapes are in the games, that they can be performed (as in, they are interactive), or that they are the goal?
In the case of the first option, I would like to remind everyone that rape has been a common factor used in both art, music, and movies for quite some time now (the latter especially so if you're a vivid watcher of Lifetime Movies like my mother is). So before you ban rape in games, you must ban it in all mediums.
With regards to the second option: I think that this isn't the real issue people draw with the game either. If rape were put into the game as a tool for pushing the storyline, or just as an extra option added to a sandbox game like GTA (as in, it would be a extra thing to do, and not the overall objective), people would get angry, but not as angry as they are now. That's just being realistic: we can't say NO USING RAPE to game developers, because that's discrimination against the medium. It's in the same school of thought as the Hide Your Children [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HideYourChildren] trope of game development, and I object to that. Why should we tell people that they can't use rape or child violence in games when they could be used to tell a story or make a point?
When venturing into the third option, I must say that my morals make me inclined to agree: rape as the goal of a game is disgusting. But should we generally ban rape in games just because of this? Or more importantly: why should we when rape is used in other forms of media?
I think that rape in games, for better or worse, is here to stay. All we can do is use our wallets to decide the context in which it is used.
Because you are from/in America.
America wacks off to death pornography (e.g. Fallout 3), but starts whining as soon as there is the slightest hint of a female b00b. This whole over-reaction just gets heated up when the nudity/graphic sexual acts stand in the context of violence.
If there is anything Americans should be able to grasp, it's the sexuality-plus-violence thing.
Because over-excessive use of violence in video games is often confused with maturity while it is in fact only a sure measurement of public retardation by the visual media.
America wacks off to death pornography (e.g. Fallout 3), but starts whining as soon as there is the slightest hint of a female b00b. This whole over-reaction just gets heated up when the nudity/graphic sexual acts stand in the context of violence.
If there is anything Americans should be able to grasp, it's the sexuality-plus-violence thing.
Because over-excessive use of violence in video games is often confused with maturity while it is in fact only a sure measurement of public retardation by the visual media.
To be honest, I think NOTHING should be censored in ANY medium. Just put a warning on and don't sell the game to kids and it should be alright. Covering your eyes won't make the problem go away. Rape can be a powerful tool from a storytelling perspective, and it's silly that you just can't depict something that happens every day, no matter how bad it is.
Furthermore, I personally disagree with the notion in the article that "you're always the hero". You're not. Plenty of games has you as an unlikable douche. I realize that you may refer to something more of a protagonist more than a hero in the literal sense, but then the entire arguments breaks down. Killing people just for the sake of it is possible, and indeed encouraged in several games. Many games has you killing innocent people too. Sure, it's USUALLY either in self-defense or in order to save the world, but not always. GTA gives you the option to run over and kill many a civilian quite frequently. You're not forced to do so, no, but you do have the option. Shall we have a game then, where you're not FORCED to rape people, but you do have the option to do so if you really want to? Following your line of logic, this would be perfectly legitimate, since it's the player's choice. There's no way to justify rape, but neither is there any way to justify murder of innocent people.
(In before "BUT THEY GOT IN THE WAY, THAT'S WHY I RAN THEM OVER", that has nothing to do with it. The fact of the matter is that I can go out of my car, walk over to a random guy and kill him without any other worries on my mind. He didn't get in the way, I just wanted to kill him and did it.)
Rape is bad, but murder is worse. (At least rape victims can recover.) I think both should be allowed in the world of video games.
EDIT:
And if you wanna go all philosophical on this, I actually agree with Darth Vader here above me. There is nothing "wrong" about... well, anything, we only THINK it's wrong. Morality is a human construct, so it really is impossible to argue that something is objectively morally right or wrong.
That being said, I think it's possible to understand what is good for our society as a whole, and to make decision based on that. For example, one could argue that rape in games promotes rape in real life, and that we should avoid rape in real life because it's traumatic for the victims, hence it's counter-productive, as society's overall goal is to bring happiness to people, hence we should disallow rape in games. Not that I support such an argument, but to me it makes a lot more sense than the simple "Rape in games is bad because I think it is." or the ever popular "Rape in games is bad because it just is.")
Furthermore, I personally disagree with the notion in the article that "you're always the hero". You're not. Plenty of games has you as an unlikable douche. I realize that you may refer to something more of a protagonist more than a hero in the literal sense, but then the entire arguments breaks down. Killing people just for the sake of it is possible, and indeed encouraged in several games. Many games has you killing innocent people too. Sure, it's USUALLY either in self-defense or in order to save the world, but not always. GTA gives you the option to run over and kill many a civilian quite frequently. You're not forced to do so, no, but you do have the option. Shall we have a game then, where you're not FORCED to rape people, but you do have the option to do so if you really want to? Following your line of logic, this would be perfectly legitimate, since it's the player's choice. There's no way to justify rape, but neither is there any way to justify murder of innocent people.
(In before "BUT THEY GOT IN THE WAY, THAT'S WHY I RAN THEM OVER", that has nothing to do with it. The fact of the matter is that I can go out of my car, walk over to a random guy and kill him without any other worries on my mind. He didn't get in the way, I just wanted to kill him and did it.)
Rape is bad, but murder is worse. (At least rape victims can recover.) I think both should be allowed in the world of video games.
EDIT:
And if you wanna go all philosophical on this, I actually agree with Darth Vader here above me. There is nothing "wrong" about... well, anything, we only THINK it's wrong. Morality is a human construct, so it really is impossible to argue that something is objectively morally right or wrong.
That being said, I think it's possible to understand what is good for our society as a whole, and to make decision based on that. For example, one could argue that rape in games promotes rape in real life, and that we should avoid rape in real life because it's traumatic for the victims, hence it's counter-productive, as society's overall goal is to bring happiness to people, hence we should disallow rape in games. Not that I support such an argument, but to me it makes a lot more sense than the simple "Rape in games is bad because I think it is." or the ever popular "Rape in games is bad because it just is.")
Again the claim that murder is less of a crime than rape? I might be biased on that issue in that I would never have been born if my mother would have been killed instead of raped during her childhood, but seriously...Valentine82 said:
Raping someone scars him/her forever, but at least he/she has a chance of recovery. Killing someone ends their life. No recovery. No second chance.