You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist

[Alex_P]

Sexist jokes in a thread about rape games? Bad idea. I think the "What's worse: rape or murder?" debate deserves a rest, too -- it's gotten way askew of the question framed in the article.

-- Alex

 

[omega 616]

fact 2) men cant be sexually abused unless it's from another man

I think theres a line of decency thats crossed when people are seriously considering making a game about raping people for nothing more than the persuit of fun.

Just my thoughts .....

Devil's advocate:
Who says that all video games have to be about the pursuit of fun? What if they're trying to educate/make a point? What if they're just there to be simulations, to let perverts be perverts virtually as opposed to them being perverts in the real world? What if the "non-fun" is there to further the storyline? (FF7 SPOILER ALERT!!! Like being forced to kill Aeris in FF7?)

Games are meant to be fun thats there reason for being weather it be holding a controller or rolling dice or with a pen and paper its designed to be fun and entertaining, even things that most people say are boring like excersize are now being made fun by the wii so games are designed for that reason. Educational games are usually for kids but educational games for adults? A game making a point? Theres got to be a better way of making you not want to rape someone by making you rape people in a game.

If you think rape is fun I think you have issues

This is the world you're talking about. We've all got issues. Besides, as I've stated before, rape games are fantasy. They're works of fiction. You're not hurting anyone by playing them because the characters being violated have never existed outside our imaginations. Once you remove the element of causing physical harm to a living breathing human being you'd be amazed at how depraved the average person can become.

Not many peoples issues result in people getting traumatized. Yeah they are fantasy etc which is why killing thousands in game isnt a moral choice for anyone but raping someone in your fantasy means you have issues and a trip to the shrinks office is in order, me thinks.

Just two general questions:

To all you "devils advocates" why do want to be a devils advocate?

What would family and friends think of you if they saw you playing a game were you were raping people? I doubt you will be popular for long ......

and the age of consent in either sweden or switzerland (if im not mistaken) is 12 yrs old!

Sexist jokes in a thread about rape games? Bad idea.

-- Alex

If you were talking about my comment about choloform, it wasnt a joke. I meant it as a way to say its much harder for a woman to rape a man than any other veriant (woman on woman, guy on woman etc)

 

[Lexodus]

I think more to the point, a rape game *glorifies* rape and is designed for the player to *get off* on what happens in it.

Games that involve violence tend to either be completely fantastical (we are battling demons, not people) and encourages the idea of "fighting evil"; in most cases where you're perpetrating harm "for the fun of it," the game is clear about putting you in a role of a criminal or in a situation where you are constantly being told something along the lines of "You have lost karma/you are Chaotic Evil" etc.

I somehow have a feeling RapeLay and its ilk doesn't put you in the role of a monster; it in fact normalizes and rewards simulating a horrific act. The violence in video games I don't feel is normalized or shown in a way to make people feel titillated by the experience. I guess some players might feel aroused by engaging in the gameplay violence, who knows, but I doubt that is the developers' intent. I definitely can't say the same for the developers who would develop a rape game.

Oooh, game violence gets me soooooo hot!

Nothing sexier than a spleen. That's the truth, right there.

 

[Lexodus]

Murder<rape in media. its easier to accept robbery victim #1 getting shot on camera than it is to see a woman/girl get raped.

Not if you're into that kinda thing...

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

Well I have to disagree completely about this one. I don't think killing another human being is EVER justified, which is why I'm against the death penalty (in the end, someone's got to make a decision, and why should a jury or judge be deemed more competent to do so than a private individual? The idea that "the law" can't be prejudiced is incredibly naive to the point that I think few people believe it any more. Those who do should take a look at how many mentally retarded black males have been released from Death Row having been exonerated by DNA evidence over the past decade. It's pretty interesting reading and shows just how quick a society can be to blame its most vulnerable outcasts for its own evils.)

The difference between a videogame and real life is that, well, it's real life! If I kill someone in Half Life 2, I know full well that I'm not killing a real human being. I really don't see any moral difference between that and a rape that's not the rape of a real human being either. The only difference, it seems to me, is that rape is by nature more "offensive" to Westerners, right now. That hasn't always been the case (there've been enough "civilised" societies in the past where b--gery of small boys was considered a perfectly normal and healthy activity) and I doubt it will always be in the future either. Personally, I agree with society on the "rape" question, if not the "killing" one. But that doesn't mean I'm "right" about either - or that I'm "wrong". Society's ideals change constantly.

Also, I think it's fundamentally healthier to be killing someone in Team Fortress 2 than it is to be doing it in real life.

 

[wizzerd229]

the word hero is not entirely correct to use. u should use protagonist, which means lead character. and true the rape game is horrible

 

[Lexodus]

RAAAAWWRRRRRRRR

Interesting.

fact 1) you are a male
fact 2) men cant be sexually abused unless it's from another man
fact 3) rape leaves a psychological imprint into a female's mind

Somebody I know got wasted at a party and raped by a fat girl. So... there goes that theory.

 

[Bat Vader]

I've said it in previous threads...

I'll never ever touch a 'rape' game, however, murder or rape, whats the difference.....both can take and ruin lifes, so why a one sided view point by many.

Most of the time the player usually murders bad people so the killing can be somewhat justified. In a rape game you are raping innocent women.

 

[Worsle]

If you were talking about my comment about choloform, it wasnt a joke. I meant it as a way to say its much harder for a woman to rape a man than any other veriant (woman on woman, guy on woman etc)

Well you know that is hideously ignorant of the issue. While yes women tend to be weaker on average that is all it is an average, this is ignoring all the other ways people can be over powered. Weapons, numbers, drugs and the very attack it self can freeze a person, this more than even the scales and what most people don't realise is your erectile response is involuntary while most people assume this means they went along with it. Male victims tend to get looked down at and ill-treated this also means that the reporting of these incidents is very rare as rape is hard enough to admit to just on its own.

However I am not sure we should be taking a stance against jokes. Black humour is very much a part of how people work. Though I do think all this think of the what women must thing is absolute nonsense. Not only does it put out the idea women are only victims it also ignore the fact women can and do enjoy rape fantasies them selves. Yes while real rape would be terrible and life shattering there is still a part of some people that find it a turn on in thought (if you think that is weird consider bondage).

 

[Abedeus]

When you are killed, you don't care. You die.

When you are raped, you suffer from the rest of your life, especially if you have nobody close to you or you are afraid/embarrased to get a professional help. Wounds like that never close.

 

[in_95]

We get it people, rape is bad and should be prosecuted by the hands of the law with extreme justice. But games? Rape fantasies? What about movies with rape in them? Books? Has the word itself become somehow taboo?

When did we all turn into hysterical soccer moms?

 

[Shapsters]

Neither Rape nor Murder can be 'Justified', although I suppose a hero will need to kill, but thats not Murder. Anyways, at what point in a game does this hero need to walk up to a woman, grab her, drag her to his apartment and sexually assault her? Its wrong and unnecessary.

 

[mongorian]

In a similar vein, I find the slave collars in Fallout 3 to be very dark and offensive to me - I personally think slavery is worse than rape (and oftentimes rape is a condition of slavery) and the ability to sell slaves was pretty much one of the most evil things I've seen in a game (aside from genocide). That being said- I'm glad Bethesda put it in the game. If I find the slave collars offensive I don't use them and I'd be a jackass for trying to remove them from the game. Instead I just hunted the wasteland for raiders and slavers and methodically killed all the villains in Paradise Falls. I do find it odd that the slave collars didn't cause a huge uproar. Can you be a hero if you're a slaver?

In a similar vein, I find the slave collars in Fallout 3 to be very dark and offensive to me - I personally think slavery is worse than rape (and oftentimes rape is a condition of slavery) and the ability to sell slaves was pretty much one of the most evil things I've seen in a game (aside from genocide). That being said- I'm glad Bethesda put it in the game. If I find the slave collars offensive I don't use them and I'd be a jackass for trying to remove them from the game. Instead I just hunted the wasteland for raiders and slavers and methodically killed all the villains in Paradise Falls. I do find it odd that the slave collars didn't cause a huge uproar. Can you be a hero if you're a slaver?

actually you can be a hero for being a slaver also in fallout 3 in a DLC the Pitts the slaves were being forced to rebuild the city and establish a civilized world again
and in regards to the actual world the chances of people in 1st world countries becoming slaves is well i might go out on a limp and say it wont happen and the chances of someone slaughtering large groups of people is pretty unlikely
but rape is still up there so many people, Women and Man get raped I have more friends who were raped then mugged
and out of my friends who have had a tragedy of being attacked and/or raped the ones who were raped were the ones who wanted to kill themselves some did (R.I.P)
Rape is one of the most horrible things that could happen to some one

just so its clear i love free speach I Love video games but rape should be banned from video games cause those fucking sickos shouldn't be allowed the light from the sun
and yes i know that banning a game for something allows all games to fall under that rule
then maybe video games should be banned all together cause if that makes a single sliver of the world a better place wouldnt that be worth it

ok sorry for going on a rant i just really really really HATE rape
i could wright many books about my hate for it
so ill leave with one finall thing to say
" I LOVE BIG BROTHER"

 

[Spacelord]

What about a game where you need to rape the women to demoralise the enemy, thus ensuring victory? Or maybe raping gives you a power up, thus ensuring victory. Then on the other hand, glorifying rape is probably going to make for an even bigger backlash than glorifying violence.

All joking aside, I think OP uncovered why rape is never a decent game mechanic: it's pointless, and it doesn't really make you feel like the hero (right?). At least when you're tearing baddies limb from limb you feel a little righteous. A game would have to have the best damn writing in the world for rape to work.

Also: why am I not surprised that Japan didn't ban those games after all?

 

[crypt-creature]

I guess the only defense I can think for this kind of thing is a slippery slope argument: If we allow rape to be banned, we're setting a precedent.
Eventually it would work its way to violence, then "objectional" content, etc.

I think violence in video games will only be banned if it is more than mere shooting and beating.

How much gore is really in a video game these days? Not much, if you really think about it.
People are exposed to the violence of shootings and beatings every day, we are even taught about them in school. Veterans also tell kids how horrifying real wars and murders are, and games don't ever get that graphic.
How many classes teach about rape and sex crimes? How often are people exposed to it, and should they be exposed to a situation where they play a person who does those things?
People would have a problem with a video game that glorifies torture (in a very graphic sense, SAW kind of graphic and so forth) where the player carries out those acts.

 

[crypt-creature]

How many classes teach about rape and sex crimes? How often are people exposed to it, and should they be exposed to a situation where they play a person who does those things?

Actually, according to personal experience, people seem to be exposed to it a lot. I have a bunch of friends who have been raped. Family too.

It's a bit disconcerting.

Eesh, that's rough.

Personally, my fiancee was abused, but I've known no one who's been raped.
I suppose by 'exposure' I meant taught in school or confronted with the subject by parents or victim of such an act. If a ban on such games were more an unspoken rule, I might respect humanity a little more.
A flat out ban may be infracting on a 'freedom' of some sort, but even a free society has rules and things they deem legal or illegal. A ban is just more direct.

 

[crypt-creature]

I know what you meant, I was just being a jerk, I guess.

Max, I don't know how to tell you this...
But you failed.

I do count myself lucky, though knowing about the abuse (of the sexual sort) is bad enough.