This thread destroys my faith in humanity. Only the people who want to play rape games should defend the concept of it. I find it quite bad that people compare rape to murder, rape and torture maybe, but not murder. Murder is quick and not long lasting, the effects of rape last forever, as with torture.
You Can't Be the Hero If You're the Rapist
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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As long as it's only 20% rape, it's A-OK!
As long as it's only 20% rape, it's A-OK!
Keep in mind up until very recently women didn't have a say in marriage, being willing to rape your "property" (which is all women were in old europe) means an increased reproductive viability. Heck until recently in human history women were even treated as spoils of war, so it makes sense that the tendency towards rape would be so wide spread among our species.
I call for a new eugenics movement to place selective pressures favoring intelligence as well as group survivability, providing financial incentives towards the voluntary sterilization of anyone identified as carrying harmful traits, as well as providing financial incentives to encourage the voluntary reproduce of the intelligent in greater numbers. The desired means would be equitable and voluntary and the desired outcome would be a better brighter humanity.
*sigh*
On Contrast between Rape and Murder.
Rape is a sexual assault often driven largely by sexual lusts, and we evolved to reproduce more than we evolved to kill so nurturing the fetish for rape is prone to increase the probability of rape. Rape is a human right's violation and often induces severe life long post traumatic stress in the victims. The cover of the game in question actually shows what appears to be two horrified and powerless women, one holding the other protecting her with fear in her eyes. Is this the type of meme you want to allow and promote in our society? Also Rape is in general harmful to society, as half of society is made up of women and a large percentage are made up of minors all of which are potential victims and an alarmingly high number of which will actually be victims.
Not all murders are harmful to society nor are all murders completely unjustified. Murdering a serial rapist, pedophile, or serial killer can be beneficial to the rest of the community, and thus many legal systems have government sanctioned murder of such individuals in the form of executions.
Regardless, our tendency towards violence is different from our reproductive tendencies in that they can be controlled with an outlet and entertainment mediums involving violence rarely encourage real world violence. Some studies have actually suggested that increased desensitization towards violence decreases the probability that a person will react violently when impassioned, but I personally doubt their findings because I believe their methodology is flawed.
I call for a new eugenics movement to place selective pressures favoring intelligence as well as group survivability, providing financial incentives towards the voluntary sterilization of anyone identified as carrying harmful traits, as well as providing financial incentives to encourage the voluntary reproduce of the intelligent in greater numbers. The desired means would be equitable and voluntary and the desired outcome would be a better brighter humanity.
*sigh*
On Contrast between Rape and Murder.
Rape is a sexual assault often driven largely by sexual lusts, and we evolved to reproduce more than we evolved to kill so nurturing the fetish for rape is prone to increase the probability of rape. Rape is a human right's violation and often induces severe life long post traumatic stress in the victims. The cover of the game in question actually shows what appears to be two horrified and powerless women, one holding the other protecting her with fear in her eyes. Is this the type of meme you want to allow and promote in our society? Also Rape is in general harmful to society, as half of society is made up of women and a large percentage are made up of minors all of which are potential victims and an alarmingly high number of which will actually be victims.
Not all murders are harmful to society nor are all murders completely unjustified. Murdering a serial rapist, pedophile, or serial killer can be beneficial to the rest of the community, and thus many legal systems have government sanctioned murder of such individuals in the form of executions.
Regardless, our tendency towards violence is different from our reproductive tendencies in that they can be controlled with an outlet and entertainment mediums involving violence rarely encourage real world violence. Some studies have actually suggested that increased desensitization towards violence decreases the probability that a person will react violently when impassioned, but I personally doubt their findings because I believe their methodology is flawed.
Repetition doesn't make things more or less true. In other words, you keep saying this, but I'm going to continue to question its veracity without some sort of evidence beyond philosophical omphaloskepsis.Valentine82 said:
I thought your stated goal was to differentiate rape and murder. Right to life is actually in article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; which article covers rape? I'm thinking maybe 4 or 5? And as to severe lifelong post-traumatic stress... murder causes death. I don't really want to get into the pointless debate held here over which is worse, but I will say this: they're both really bad if they happen to me, and I think I can sympathize with victims of either, and hope that any society I live in will not promote either.
I have yet to hear anyone suggest that their interest is in promoting rape as a part of our culture. What I want is to allow the freedom of expression of ideas through any medium that have not otherwise been proven actively deleterious of the group. So, to answer your question: NO, this is not the type of meme I want to allow AND promote in our society. It is the type of meme I think we should allow in our society.
You're a bit late. It was posted about half a week before on the canned dogs blog.Geoffrey42 said:
Not sure if anyone here has actually played any "rape" game or if they're reacting like a bunch of sheep to buzzwords.
There are "dating simulation" games out there for those looking for sex in a game. But rape isn't about sex. It's about power. Rape is a form of abuse as well as torture. And why aren't there games out there about the main character being a rapist? Well, maybe because if any woman found out you bought such a thing, even out of curiosity, you wouldn't get within 10 feet of one again. Women won't trust someone who thinks that's in any way acceptable. (Feel free to ask some female friends.)
There is one from the other side of the coin though called "I Have No Mouth, But I Must Scream". That is a game based off a story where a intelligent computer went insane, nuked the world and has a small pool of humans it toys with by making them confront their worst nightmares over and over. It also won't let them die. That one has the horror and trauma of being a victim of rape as well as the fear of insanity, torture, and deep guilt and loss. And in that sense it is an emotionally wrenching art/sci-fi/horror game that really makes you think.
It's probably the only one that has used the elements in a successful fashion that does not promote rape but does explore it as an issue.
P.S. A man may have been able to rape his wife in the past as "property" but the women had countermeasures as well. One, the women would band together and support each other, the man would be ostracized by the women in the community. Two, a few extremely abysmal meals and ruined pieces of clothing, etc. would "encourage" a man to behave in a better fashion. Remember, they had to LIVE with the woman afterwards and the woman controlled the household. Many and varied are the implements of torture a woman in that situation could apply. And if you push a woman enough this is the kind of effect that you get:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burning_Bed Domestic abuse includes sexual abuse and that means rape as well. Rapists aren't heroes.
There is one from the other side of the coin though called "I Have No Mouth, But I Must Scream". That is a game based off a story where a intelligent computer went insane, nuked the world and has a small pool of humans it toys with by making them confront their worst nightmares over and over. It also won't let them die. That one has the horror and trauma of being a victim of rape as well as the fear of insanity, torture, and deep guilt and loss. And in that sense it is an emotionally wrenching art/sci-fi/horror game that really makes you think.
It's probably the only one that has used the elements in a successful fashion that does not promote rape but does explore it as an issue.
P.S. A man may have been able to rape his wife in the past as "property" but the women had countermeasures as well. One, the women would band together and support each other, the man would be ostracized by the women in the community. Two, a few extremely abysmal meals and ruined pieces of clothing, etc. would "encourage" a man to behave in a better fashion. Remember, they had to LIVE with the woman afterwards and the woman controlled the household. Many and varied are the implements of torture a woman in that situation could apply. And if you push a woman enough this is the kind of effect that you get:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burning_Bed Domestic abuse includes sexual abuse and that means rape as well. Rapists aren't heroes.
What are you calling into question exactly? According to my psychology text book and everything I've learned about sexual fetishes thus far. Granted this isn't a focal point of my studies, but I've also seen experts on the Research Channel and the Science Channel. According to everything I've learned sexual fetishes get stronger when nurtured, they don't get weaker. Most of the time the more a sexual fetish is nurtured the more an individual will desire to act it out.Geoffrey42 said:
That right to life can be made forfeit by one's actions. If I brandish a gun at you and threaten to kill you, my right to life is ceded by my actions. Most nations carry the death penelty and most nations engage in war, but most do not abide rape. Maybe we're getting hung up on the term murder.Geoffrey42 said:
I consider any killing in which the victim does not consent to death and the methods if death to be murder, whatever legal terms we attach to it to make ourselves feel better aside. I also consider some murders to be both necessary and justified. We don't live in a world where we can just do whatever we want, we have to co-exist with other human beings, and when one human is going around raping and killing (BTK Killer for instance) then it's for the good of society that such an individual is removed from society.
In some cases death is preferable to such trauma by the victim, and many rape victims commit suicide as a result.Geoffrey42 said:
LikewiseGeoffrey42 said:
Hold on for a moment. Does that include a pornographic pedophilia simulator? If instead of two frightened women on the cover of the game there were a scared little boy holding a scared little girl would you still be defending this abomination? If not why not? If so, do you really think it's a good idea to put a pedophilia simulator in the hands of potential pedophiles and titillate their lusts?Geoffrey42 said:
You really think we should allow the distribution of interactive pornography that titillates the fantasies and lusts of potential rapist? Do you also think we should allow games center on the abduction and rape of four year old girls? Surly you can see how it would be a bad idea to titillate the lusts and fantasies of potential pedophiles, especially those already genetically predisposed to pedophilia. Well, there are people genetically predisposed to rape as well, and the only difference here is the age of the victims.Geoffrey42 said:
I take issue with largely the same things Cheeze_Pavilion does, though he makes this point better. You are blurring the sexual fetish for rape (which can be acted out consensually) and the tendency of individuals to rape. You're pulling together factual tidbits (such as that nurturing fetishes makes them stronger) and adding them to speculative tidbits (such as that there is a direct correlation between rape fetish and rape crime), then making a causative claim where you don't even have evidence of correlation.Valentine82 said:
I would defend it just the same. The question is not whether it appeals to or repels against my personal sensibilities, the question is of censorship, and when censorship is justifiable.
Yes, and yes, and surely I can't, or I wouldn't be on the side of the argument that I am.
What if there was this girl with an alien parasite that could only transfer through intercourse but had also taken over her brain and was forcing her to resist?
Just thinking outside of the box.
Just thinking outside of the box.
But is the stimulation effect on the brain the same? Our reaction to dreams is said to be the same as actual actions. And daydreams are still dreams-so are video games similarly immersive to our brains? Is it real on a visceral level?punkrocker27 said:
If so, should we not be cautious what kind of themes we inject into our brains? After all, garbage in-garbage out. And would it trivialize the trauma of the victims or make actual rapists feel their actions are more justified since it theme would be mainstream? Would we see even more horrible events like this:
http://www.switched.com/2009/06/08/man-hires-someone-on-craigslist-to-rape-his-wife/
http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/your-brain-on-dreams-the-science-of-dreaming/article24430.html
On the flip side, is anyone arguing that they want to play a game where they are the victim of a rape or a helpless character that gets killed over and over? No. Although such a game could be made and done well in the horror genera, where the main character sees the world through a glass darkly, I doubt people would want to play it since it would be very uncomfortable. It isn't fun to play a victim that DOESN'T get to go on that "quest for revenge".
(Aside for Eugenics arguement: In Nature, the female chooses what male she thinks has the best traits for her offspring. She has the largest investment. If she does not want those genes and is forced to breed she will most likely reject the offspring.
You aren't suggesting that women CHOOSE from a "quality gene pool" and get artificially inseminated. So your arguement has no legs to stand on. You might want to try the book "The Genius Factory" if you really want a look at the topic of eugenics. Or maybe play Bioshock.