Your thought on... Pansexuality

[Saelune]

Which is a very serious failing on their part. Not knowing about a sexuality, sure, it's a complicated issue. But to say to someone "nuh-uh, that's not a real thing" leads to all sorts of problems. LGBT people have long been discriminated against, and attitudes like that play a large part in it.

Fair point but my point is you need to let society naturally adjust.

The Pansexuals who treat people who don't believe in their sexuality with disdain only create more distain for them.

Waiting for society to naturally adjust is a very bad idea. You have to force society to adjust. Dont believe me? Look at every civil rights movement ever.

I think what the poster was trying to say was that in order for society as a whole, to accept a new aspect, it needs time to start seeing that as part of "normal". And that takes time. Not just the passing of laws specifically regarding that issue, which is the civil rights aspect of things. But the run of the mill, joe on the street, reaction to things. That for the most part, that level of acceptance is from exposure, and time, and new generations growing up seeing it as just another thing. Not that fighting for the rights isn't necessary, but that fight isn't what makes the public really incorporate the new paradigm into their concept of "normal".

I'm reminded of a podcast I occasionally listen to, and one of the hosts talked about the difference in LGBT acceptance based on age. How he, in his 50's, sees a lot of people in his age bracket who don't like it, or are somewhat resistant to it. But when he asked his 3 kids (who are roughly pre-teen to teenagers) about what they thought of LGBT issues, they didn't care at all. He said "Their reaction was about as intense as if I'd told them I was left handed. They just don't care, it's not something they find strange."

In the long run, I think that's where the acceptance truly comes from, raising generations with those concepts presented as normal, and the eventual dying off of the old fuddy duddies who want those LGBT kids to get off their damn lawn with their glitter and feather boas.

Well, its waves. Those kids dont find it so weird because it was at first forcefully pushed to acknowledge LGBT people. If not for the heavier handed gay rights movements of the 70's, those kids might not be so unbothered. Its the grandkids and great grand kids of those forced to accept it who naturally accept it.

 

[happyninja42]

Which is a very serious failing on their part. Not knowing about a sexuality, sure, it's a complicated issue. But to say to someone "nuh-uh, that's not a real thing" leads to all sorts of problems. LGBT people have long been discriminated against, and attitudes like that play a large part in it.

Fair point but my point is you need to let society naturally adjust.

The Pansexuals who treat people who don't believe in their sexuality with disdain only create more distain for them.

Waiting for society to naturally adjust is a very bad idea. You have to force society to adjust. Dont believe me? Look at every civil rights movement ever.

I think what the poster was trying to say was that in order for society as a whole, to accept a new aspect, it needs time to start seeing that as part of "normal". And that takes time. Not just the passing of laws specifically regarding that issue, which is the civil rights aspect of things. But the run of the mill, joe on the street, reaction to things. That for the most part, that level of acceptance is from exposure, and time, and new generations growing up seeing it as just another thing. Not that fighting for the rights isn't necessary, but that fight isn't what makes the public really incorporate the new paradigm into their concept of "normal".

I'm reminded of a podcast I occasionally listen to, and one of the hosts talked about the difference in LGBT acceptance based on age. How he, in his 50's, sees a lot of people in his age bracket who don't like it, or are somewhat resistant to it. But when he asked his 3 kids (who are roughly pre-teen to teenagers) about what they thought of LGBT issues, they didn't care at all. He said "Their reaction was about as intense as if I'd told them I was left handed. They just don't care, it's not something they find strange."

In the long run, I think that's where the acceptance truly comes from, raising generations with those concepts presented as normal, and the eventual dying off of the old fuddy duddies who want those LGBT kids to get off their damn lawn with their glitter and feather boas.

Well, its waves. Those kids dont find it so weird because it was at first forcefully pushed to acknowledge LGBT people. If not for the heavier handed gay rights movements of the 70's, those kids might not be so unbothered. Its the grandkids and great grand kids of those forced to accept it who naturally accept it.

....yes, that's exactly what I just said. Forcing them to accept it usually doesn't make them actually "accept" it, more tolerate it. But then, after a few generations, it becomes a regular occurrence. Which is what I was saying.

 

[Saelune]

Which is a very serious failing on their part. Not knowing about a sexuality, sure, it's a complicated issue. But to say to someone "nuh-uh, that's not a real thing" leads to all sorts of problems. LGBT people have long been discriminated against, and attitudes like that play a large part in it.

Fair point but my point is you need to let society naturally adjust.

The Pansexuals who treat people who don't believe in their sexuality with disdain only create more distain for them.

Waiting for society to naturally adjust is a very bad idea. You have to force society to adjust. Dont believe me? Look at every civil rights movement ever.

I think what the poster was trying to say was that in order for society as a whole, to accept a new aspect, it needs time to start seeing that as part of "normal". And that takes time. Not just the passing of laws specifically regarding that issue, which is the civil rights aspect of things. But the run of the mill, joe on the street, reaction to things. That for the most part, that level of acceptance is from exposure, and time, and new generations growing up seeing it as just another thing. Not that fighting for the rights isn't necessary, but that fight isn't what makes the public really incorporate the new paradigm into their concept of "normal".

I'm reminded of a podcast I occasionally listen to, and one of the hosts talked about the difference in LGBT acceptance based on age. How he, in his 50's, sees a lot of people in his age bracket who don't like it, or are somewhat resistant to it. But when he asked his 3 kids (who are roughly pre-teen to teenagers) about what they thought of LGBT issues, they didn't care at all. He said "Their reaction was about as intense as if I'd told them I was left handed. They just don't care, it's not something they find strange."

In the long run, I think that's where the acceptance truly comes from, raising generations with those concepts presented as normal, and the eventual dying off of the old fuddy duddies who want those LGBT kids to get off their damn lawn with their glitter and feather boas.

Well, its waves. Those kids dont find it so weird because it was at first forcefully pushed to acknowledge LGBT people. If not for the heavier handed gay rights movements of the 70's, those kids might not be so unbothered. Its the grandkids and great grand kids of those forced to accept it who naturally accept it.

....yes, that's exactly what I just said. Forcing them to accept it usually doesn't make them actually "accept" it, more tolerate it. But then, after a few generations, it becomes a regular occurrence. Which is what I was saying.

But was it what Chareater was saying?

Some people say "I just dont want it shoved in my face" and mean they dont want someone being just annoying, and other people saying it meaning they dont want gay people to even exist around them.

 

[happyninja42]

But was it what Chareater was saying?

Some people say "I just dont want it shoved in my face" and mean they dont want someone being just annoying, and other people saying it meaning they dont want gay people to even exist around them.

I don't know if that's what Chareater was saying, that's why I said "I think what they meant to say is the following". Until Chareater posts a confirm/deny it's still conjecture on my part. Regardless of whether that's what Chareater was trying to say though, it is my thoughts on the subject. Yes, being vocal and proactive is important, but I'm pretty sure that most of the people who were anti-black during the civil rights days, didn't magically become pro-black just because a law was passed, in fact there is plenty of evidence that they kept their opinions regardless of the new laws. However, what did help make a genuine change, was time. Generation after generation of people living in a society that presented them as "just another person like you", and that being wired into their heads, and then they passed it on. I live in Alabama, and trust me, there is a strong correlation between the age of a person, and how racist they are around here. While it's not 100%, I rarely see young people as openly bigoted and toxic as an old southern person around here, black and white. And then I go to my god daughter's school, and see them happily playing with tons of kids of mixed ethnicity all the time, and they don't even bat an eyelash at it. Which is why I was saying that the true victor for change is time. You can only change people's minds so much, after a lifetime of thinking a certain way. And some people will just never accept your worldview. But people who grow up in that world, it's no different than knowing someone has a particular hair color, or is left handed.

 

[Saelune]

But was it what Chareater was saying?

Some people say "I just dont want it shoved in my face" and mean they dont want someone being just annoying, and other people saying it meaning they dont want gay people to even exist around them.

I don't know if that's what Chareater was saying, that's why I said "I think what they meant to say is the following". Until Chareater posts a confirm/deny it's still conjecture on my part. Regardless of whether that's what Chareater was trying to say though, it is my thoughts on the subject. Yes, being vocal and proactive is important, but I'm pretty sure that most of the people who were anti-black during the civil rights days, didn't magically become pro-black just because a law was passed, in fact there is plenty of evidence that they kept their opinions regardless of the new laws. However, what did help make a genuine change, was time. Generation after generation of people living in a society that presented them as "just another person like you", and that being wired into their heads, and then they passed it on. I live in Alabama, and trust me, there is a strong correlation between the age of a person, and how racist they are around here. While it's not 100%, I rarely see young people as openly bigoted and toxic as an old southern person around here, black and white. And then I go to my god daughter's school, and see them happily playing with tons of kids of mixed ethnicity all the time, and they don't even bat an eyelash at it. Which is why I was saying that the true victor for change is time. You can only change people's minds so much, after a lifetime of thinking a certain way. And some people will just never accept your worldview. But people who grow up in that world, it's no different than knowing someone has a particular hair color, or is left handed.

People shouldnt have to wait to be treated fairly like people.

 

[happyninja42]

But was it what Chareater was saying?

Some people say "I just dont want it shoved in my face" and mean they dont want someone being just annoying, and other people saying it meaning they dont want gay people to even exist around them.

I don't know if that's what Chareater was saying, that's why I said "I think what they meant to say is the following". Until Chareater posts a confirm/deny it's still conjecture on my part. Regardless of whether that's what Chareater was trying to say though, it is my thoughts on the subject. Yes, being vocal and proactive is important, but I'm pretty sure that most of the people who were anti-black during the civil rights days, didn't magically become pro-black just because a law was passed, in fact there is plenty of evidence that they kept their opinions regardless of the new laws. However, what did help make a genuine change, was time. Generation after generation of people living in a society that presented them as "just another person like you", and that being wired into their heads, and then they passed it on. I live in Alabama, and trust me, there is a strong correlation between the age of a person, and how racist they are around here. While it's not 100%, I rarely see young people as openly bigoted and toxic as an old southern person around here, black and white. And then I go to my god daughter's school, and see them happily playing with tons of kids of mixed ethnicity all the time, and they don't even bat an eyelash at it. Which is why I was saying that the true victor for change is time. You can only change people's minds so much, after a lifetime of thinking a certain way. And some people will just never accept your worldview. But people who grow up in that world, it's no different than knowing someone has a particular hair color, or is left handed.

People shouldnt have to wait to be treated fairly like people.

No, but people shouldn't be murdered either, or abused, or any number of other terrible things that happen in this world, and I think you would agree, that even though we have laws to say "don't do those things", they still happen. Saying it shouldn't happen doesn't make it not happen. All we can do is try and help move society along as best we can. You can't snap your fingers and make everyone accept everyone else. As awesome as that would be, the world doesn't work that way. It's a slow process. You're fighting decades, if not centuries of social inertia. That doesn't change overnight.

 

[Saelune]

But was it what Chareater was saying?

Some people say "I just dont want it shoved in my face" and mean they dont want someone being just annoying, and other people saying it meaning they dont want gay people to even exist around them.

I don't know if that's what Chareater was saying, that's why I said "I think what they meant to say is the following". Until Chareater posts a confirm/deny it's still conjecture on my part. Regardless of whether that's what Chareater was trying to say though, it is my thoughts on the subject. Yes, being vocal and proactive is important, but I'm pretty sure that most of the people who were anti-black during the civil rights days, didn't magically become pro-black just because a law was passed, in fact there is plenty of evidence that they kept their opinions regardless of the new laws. However, what did help make a genuine change, was time. Generation after generation of people living in a society that presented them as "just another person like you", and that being wired into their heads, and then they passed it on. I live in Alabama, and trust me, there is a strong correlation between the age of a person, and how racist they are around here. While it's not 100%, I rarely see young people as openly bigoted and toxic as an old southern person around here, black and white. And then I go to my god daughter's school, and see them happily playing with tons of kids of mixed ethnicity all the time, and they don't even bat an eyelash at it. Which is why I was saying that the true victor for change is time. You can only change people's minds so much, after a lifetime of thinking a certain way. And some people will just never accept your worldview. But people who grow up in that world, it's no different than knowing someone has a particular hair color, or is left handed.

People shouldnt have to wait to be treated fairly like people.

No, but people shouldn't be murdered either, or abused, or any number of other terrible things that happen in this world, and I think you would agree, that even though we have laws to say "don't do those things", they still happen. Saying it shouldn't happen doesn't make it not happen. All we can do is try and help move society along as best we can. You can't snap your fingers and make everyone accept everyone else. As awesome as that would be, the world doesn't work that way. It's a slow process. You're fighting decades, if not centuries of social inertia. That doesn't change overnight.

My point is I am not going to hold back for the sake of bad people's ignorant sensibilities.

 

[happyninja42]

My point is I am not going to hold back for the sake of bad people's ignorant sensibilities.

Go right ahead. Fight for it. I'm not saying don't do that, I'm just saying don't expect a global awakening because of it the next day.

 

[Saelune]

My point is I am not going to hold back for the sake of bad people's ignorant sensibilities.

Go right ahead. Fight for it. I'm not saying don't do that, I'm just saying don't expect a global awakening because of it the next day.

That was crystal clear to me when Trump won. But that is why I have to fight harder than I ever have before.

 

[happyninja42]

My point is I am not going to hold back for the sake of bad people's ignorant sensibilities.

Go right ahead. Fight for it. I'm not saying don't do that, I'm just saying don't expect a global awakening because of it the next day.

That was crystal clear to me when Trump won. But that is why I have to fight harder than I ever have before.

And I wish you every bit of luck in your fight.

 

[Chareater]

SNIP

Happyninja took the words out of my mouth. Fact is not everybody is going to accept pansexuality and no matter what we do their views won't change.

But in future generations pansexuality will be "normal" just like blacks and gays before it.

I feel like insulting people who won't accept it now is pointless and will only slow down the progress of acceptance.

For example, if I started screaming at somebody who didn't accept pansexuality they would get angry and dislike the idea pansexuality even more. They could then tell their friends and family about what happened making them hate it also.

Or I could simply roll my eyes and walk away from the person who didn't accept it, sure that wouldn't change his mind but it would stop this spread of anti-pansexuality.

 

[happyninja42]

SNIP

Happyninja took the words out of my mouth. Fact is not everybody is going to accept pansexuality and no matter what we do their views won't change.

But in future generations pansexuality will be "normal" just like blacks and gays before it.

I feel like insulting people who won't accept it now is pointless and will only slow down the progress of acceptance.

For example, if I started screaming at somebody who didn't accept pansexuality they would get angry and dislike the idea pansexuality even more. They could then tell their friends and family about what happened making them hate it also.

Or I could simply roll my eyes and walk away from the person who didn't accept it, sure that wouldn't change his mind but it would stop this spread of anti-pansexuality.

Or you could question them in a civil manner that makes them question their beliefs. this isn't a duality, with options only being "yell at them" or "ignore them". sure it won't always work, but it is possible to use logic to make people change their worldviews. ask most atheists who were previously religious, and most will tell you that it was a series of compelling discussions by someone, coupled with personal reflection that made change their minds

 

[Chareater]

Or you could question them in a civil manner that makes them question their beliefs. this isn't a duality, with options only being "yell at them" or "ignore them". sure it won't always work, but it is possible to use logic to make people change their worldviews. ask most atheists who were previously religious, and most will tell you that it was a series of compelling discussions by someone, coupled with personal reflection that made change their minds

I'm talking about the people who HATE gays, blacks and so on. The ones who no matter what won't listen to reason and will insult them whatever chance they get.

Everyone wants to yell at these people, but I really don't think it helps.

 

[happyninja42]

Or you could question them in a civil manner that makes them question their beliefs. this isn't a duality, with options only being "yell at them" or "ignore them". sure it won't always work, but it is possible to use logic to make people change their worldviews. ask most atheists who were previously religious, and most will tell you that it was a series of compelling discussions by someone, coupled with personal reflection that made change their minds

I'm talking about the people who HATE gays, blacks and so on. The ones who no matter what won't listen to reason and will insult them whatever chance they get.

Everyone wants to yell at these people, but I really don't think it helps.

Even those people have the capacity to change, and some of them do. Not many i'll grant you, but it can happen. I'm not saying stand there and try and talk to them civilly while they fume and spew spittle in your face, but it is possible to change people's minds.

 

[kiri3tsubasa]

I see it as nothing but a pretentious way of saying Bisexual.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

So, Pansexual people are basically Bisexual people who wanted to have a new word for it? Seriously, what in that description wouldn't be covered under Bi? Being able to love Transgenders isn't a sexuality, doubly so if they've undergone the surgery. Androgynous also isn't a sexuality, it's a look.

I see it how I see other non-heterosexual behaviors, an (admittedly harmless) anomaly or dysfunction that is not Nature's intended way, but if that's not a problem to them, fine. I don't consider it normal though.

Actually Homosexuality can be seen in a number of species in the wild, not just humans. I think the consensus is that it's another form of population control, one that doesn't involve more predators and the like.

 

[Erttheking]

Let people identify as what they want, because there's no real reason to get worked up over it. If it really is silly, it'll wear off on its own if you ignore it, while people will be embolden to hang onto it if you lash out at them for it. If it isn't, people have a right to identify as it, while lashing out at it is cruel.

There really is no up side to lashing out at it.

 

[Dismal purple]

It's offensive

By claiming that pansexuals "like transgendered people too" you are saying that bisexuals don't. Which I think is pretty presumptious. You're also telling transsexuals that only pansexuals are attracted to them. Transsexuals identify as and look like men and women so it's actually offensive to imply that gay, straight or bisexual people can't be attracted to them.

edit: Added a tl;dr at the top.

 

[Saelune]

It's offensive

By claiming that pansexuals "like transgendered people too" you are saying that bisexuals don't. Which I think is pretty presumptious. You're also telling transsexuals that only pansexuals are attracted to them. Transsexuals identify as and look like men and women so it's actually offensive to imply that gay, straight or bisexual people can't be attracted to them.

edit: Added a tl;dr at the top.

From personal experience, it is not that bisexuals cant or dont like trans people, it is just that pansexual people are more conscious of it. Most of the people I have dated identified as bisexual, but I have dated atleast one person who identified as pansexual. But they all had personal preferences.

I also know that dating as a trans person is difficult for a bunch of reasons that is not for cisgendered people on any sexuality. There is a worry I have to deal with, that if someone starts hitting on me, what do they think I am? Would not want to have a Crying Game scenario, cause that does happen. (Did not know was trans, then gets physically abused)

I would not assume a bisexual person would be against dating me, but if someone identifies as pan, thats them being more clear that my gender does not matter to them like it might to others. (Ofcourse even then they may have personal preferences, but atleast I am more confident they wont flip out on me for being trans)

 

[Specter Von Baren]

It's offensive

By claiming that pansexuals "like transgendered people too" you are saying that bisexuals don't. Which I think is pretty presumptious. You're also telling transsexuals that only pansexuals are attracted to them. Transsexuals identify as and look like men and women so it's actually offensive to imply that gay, straight or bisexual people can't be attracted to them.

edit: Added a tl;dr at the top.

From personal experience, it is not that bisexuals cant or dont like trans people, it is just that pansexual people are more conscious of it. Most of the people I have dated identified as bisexual, but I have dated atleast one person who identified as pansexual. But they all had personal preferences.

I also know that dating as a trans person is difficult for a bunch of reasons that is not for cisgendered people on any sexuality. There is a worry I have to deal with, that if someone starts hitting on me, what do they think I am? Would not want to have a Crying Game scenario, cause that does happen. (Did not know was trans, then gets physically abused)

I would not assume a bisexual person would be against dating me, but if someone identifies as pan, thats them being more clear that my gender does not matter to them like it might to others. (Ofcourse even then they may have personal preferences, but atleast I am more confident they wont flip out on me for being trans)

I think the point they're making is that being accepting of transexuals doesn't have anything to do with your sexuality. A heterosexual person can be just as accepting of a transexual as a bi or homosexual person. I find myself attracted to a woman wearing her hair up in a ponytail, does that mean I should come up with the term piluscaudaesexual and say that that is what I identify as?

As much as our species loves to categorize things, there comes a point where you're making things needlessly complicated.