You're victims?

[Krantos]

I think that the people who pull that card would say it's because they are the only group acceptable to be racist/sexist/culturist against or that it's because they fell that they have been wrongly limited in their opportunities by racist programs intended to assist people other than them. In reality I would say it's because they don't understand the level of privilege they've enjoyed and feel entitled to maintain that privilege permanently.

It depends on the circumstances really. Being a White male really only grants you privileges if you happen to be well off financially as well. If you have the misfortune of being a poor white male, such as myself, people still assume you've enjoyed at least some level of privilege.

I had a conversation with a black female co-worker once regarding this topic. The discussion stemmed from our differing views on Affirmative Action (this was before it was foolishly scrapped). She believed it was fine as it was, while I believed it needed to be amended to factor in S.E.S. more than race/gender.

Her stance was that minorities and women still needed more incentive/assistance getting into and through college. Then I asked her how she was paying for college. After a pause, she admitted that her Grandfather was paying her way. I then proceeded to explain how I was only able to afford tuition because I had gotten a job at 15 and spent the next 3 years saving what money I didn't spend on gas and insurance on taking out a CD secured loan (basically it's a loan where you take out up to 80% of the money you have on a CD. It's a guaranteed loan because the bank already has your money as collateral) just to build up credit so I could get a cell phone in my name, which built my credit further as long as I made payments on time (which I did). By the time I graduated high school I had better credit than anyone in my family, which allowed me to take out enough student loans to pay my way.

Out of the two of us, society would have assumed that she was more in need of assistance than I was, since she was both female and a minority. Truth is, the roles were reversed.

I've never actually encountered barriers in my life (aside from paying for college) because of my race and gender, but if you don't think people make assumptions about me because of it, you're simply wrong. It's just like people who don't think racism is an issue for minorities anymore. Racism hasn't gone away, by any means. If anything it's gotten worse, it just cuts both ways now, so people think it's less of an issue.

 

[KoSTHB]

i'm not claiming that all white are privileged in the sense of wealth " although if you have white american decedents you naturally had more time to cultivated wealth opposed to more recent immigrates" but socially have more freedoms

 

[Something Amyss]

Plenty of white people have faced adversity and trouble,

Not in the context I was talking about.

everyone at some point in their life has faced real adversity and conflict

"everyone" does not experience adversity in a meaningful sense. You can't be serious.

and yet it's a very easy assumption to make that white people are born with a silver spoon in their mouths because the world's elite tends to be mostly white.

Strawman. Nobody's arguing that. I can see you're bothered by what I said, but please, DON'T MAKE SHIT UP.

They reflect the experiences of white people as much as pimps and gangstas reflect all black people

They are not the only people at issue, either. A shame, because you seem to be hinging on that (and trying to play the "race" card on it).

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

i'm not claiming that all white are privileged in the sense of wealth " although if you have white american decedents you naturally had more time to cultivated wealth opposed to more recent immigrates" but socially have more freedoms

You mean culturally we have more "freedoms"? I guess....but I would attribute that to White American culture. Nothing says that Asian/Hispanic/Middle Eastern people have to keep in touch with their culture (which means less freedoms, like not being able to drink[Muslim], being a girl and not able to stay out after dark[Asian/Middle Easter]) (I'm not familiar with many African immigrants so Idk what restrictions they place upon themselves).

 

[Iron Mal]

i'm not claiming that all white are privileged in the sense of wealth " although if you have white american decedents you naturally had more time to cultivated wealth opposed to more recent immigrates" but socially have more freedoms

Freedoms such as?

If you're going to make a point about it then the least you can do is give examples (otherwise this is something of an empty arguement).

Also, the thing about generationally cultivated wealth isn't nessercarily true either (as a general rule, immigrants generally only arrive with little or nothing if they were dirt poor in their home country or if they are asylum seekers, where their lack of welath and property has good justifcation).

 

[isometry]

a question here for people on Escapist that i honestly don't understand and have been noticing it more recently. In many a topic dealing with racism, discrimination some unfairness in life, why in most cases do the white straight male tries to victimize himself using only experiences in which people of other races and gender have done the proclaimed wrong.I'm not here to say that white males can't be discriminated against but i have notice that especially on the internet white males end up calling on the Race Card. i find this rather silly as in American culture being White, straight and male gives you advantages in life.

You're right. I'm a white male, and being the default race/sex has major advantages, at least in academia. White male professors tend to favor white male students, for reasons that they are not even conscious of e.g. superficial preference for a white male way of speaking, reminds them of themselves when they were a student, etc.

As for why some white men don't understand the advantage, it's just immaturity. Some people figure it out and grow out of it, some never figure it out. Halle Berry once said "being a beautiful woman never gave me any advantage in life." LOL!

But yeah, I favor affirmative action in universities because (1) we need more diversity, diversity makes us better human beings because we learn from more experiences, and (2) because I see the subtle forces that work against non-white students.

 

[Iron Mal]

Not in the context I was talking about.

And the context you're talking about is...?

"everyone" does not experience adversity in a meaningful sense. You can't be serious.

I am serious, and they do, everyone has troubles in their life (some more than others obviously) so trying to say 'oh well they haven't had real trouble' is being neglectful of the issues and experiences of others.

But just to humour you I'll ask what exactly do you mean by 'adversity in a meaningful sense'?

Strawman. Nobody's arguing that. I can see you're bothered by what I said, but please, DON'T MAKE SHIT UP.

I'm not making shit up, this does seem to be an assumption that a lot of people make and the main reason most people are keen to follow this thought train is because of the idea of how 'white people rule the world'.

You may not want to acknowledge or admit it but that's frankly the truth (also, if you want to make something prominant then I might reccomend you bold it insted of using capitals, people around here tend to have a problem with using caps for some reason).

They are not the only people at issue, either. A shame, because you seem to be hinging on that (and trying to play the "race" card on it).

I know that it isn't just between black and white people, my example there only served to show that the typical image of the successful upper-middle class white family with a nice house and collared shirts is about as representitive of the 'white experience' as Apu from The Simpsons is of Indians.

Your opinion that 'white people haven't experienced true adversity and are just a bunch of entitled whiners' is borderline racism and just supports my arguement.

 

[KoSTHB]

i'm not claiming that all white are privileged in the sense of wealth " although if you have white american decedents you naturally had more time to cultivated wealth opposed to more recent immigrates" but socially have more freedoms

Freedoms such as?

If you're going to make a point about it then the least you can do is give examples (otherwise this is something of an empty arguement).

Also, the thing about generationally cultivated wealth isn't nessercarily true either (as a general rule, immigrants generally only arrive with little or nothing if they were dirt poor in their home country or if they are asylum seekers, where their lack of welath and property has good justifcation).

freedoms i am talking about are how society views a group of people. Whites in American are viewed in vary of ways, as individuals but other race groups are confined to small assigned roles. Believe it or not how society views on groups can and does have an affect on how you view yourself and obviously other people
and about the immigration thing am aware that most were poor when they got here my point is if your decedent got here in 1700's and weren't enslaved they had a higher chance of gaining more wealth.

 

[chadachada123]

1) The majority of people online are white straight males. The majority of people on this forum are white straight males. The majority of complaints about an issue are going to be from white straight males.

2) In American culture, being any race or any gender or any sexual orientation brings with each some massive benefits and some massive downsides. Yes, being white, straight, and male gives a person advantages, but it also gives him disadvantages (like being told, for example, hey, you've got it "easy" in life, so we're going to give preferential treatment to others because they "don't have it as easy"). Being non-white gives different advantages in some areas, being gay or bi gives certain advantages in other areas, and being female gives some other advantages in various fields. Ever see a man get ANYTHING close to a fair ruling in a custody or alimony battle?

In the US, no race, gender, or orientation gets the "best" advantages, but every demographic gets some preferential treatment in certain areas. What constitutes the "worst" examples are completely up in the air.

tell me in what type of demographic in America is a White male is more likely to be arrested and put in jail than a person of another race "provided that there is a population of other races"? despite being the majority in the US most prison populations are non-whites.

Tell me, how does that, in any way, contradict what I said? I said that non-whites get SOME advantages in SOME areas, I recognize that police treatment is certainly not one of them (nor do you need to convince me that our court system is quite fucked up).

Most of the prison population here is imprisoned for possessing or selling a goddamn plant, and that's also an outlet for racism for many cops. Why else would crack be punished 18 times more harshly than cocaine, the exact same drug?

This is not something you need to tell me, but that doesn't mean that blacks don't have any advantages over whites in OTHER areas (or rather, where whites are viewed with more suspicion than non-whites).

I suppose I would say that, in my opinion, blacks get the shit end of the stick more than whites in the US, and Arabs getting the worst end of it currently. Regarding gender, though, males and females both have extreme benefits and extreme detriments based solely on the lack or possession of a penis, and to say that one has it "better" than another is misinformed at the very least.

 

[SonicKoala]

2) In American culture, being any race or any gender or any sexual orientation brings with each some massive benefits and some massive downsides. Yes, being white, straight, and male gives a person advantages, but it also gives him disadvantages (like being told, for example, hey, you've got it "easy" in life, so we're going to give preferential treatment to others because they "don't have it as easy"). Being non-white gives different advantages in some areas, being gay or bi gives certain advantages in other areas, and being female gives some other advantages in various fields. Ever see a man get ANYTHING close to a fair ruling in a custody or alimony battle?

What are these "massive benefits" that LGBT individuals receive? What about these "massive benefits" that minorities receive? I'm just interested in what you mean by that.

 

[chadachada123]

a question here for people on Escapist that i honestly don't understand and have been noticing it more recently. In many a topic dealing with racism, discrimination some unfairness in life, why in most cases do the white straight male tries to victimize himself using only experiences in which people of other races and gender have done the proclaimed wrong.I'm not here to say that white males can't be discriminated against but i have notice that especially on the internet white males end up calling on the Race Card. i find this rather silly as in American culture being White, straight and male gives you advantages in life.

You're right. I'm a white male, and being the default race/sex has major advantages, at least in academia. White male professors tend to favor white male students, for reasons that they are not even conscious of e.g. superficial preference for a white male way of speaking, reminds them of themselves when they were a student, etc.

As for why some white men don't understand the advantage, it's just immaturity. Some people figure it out and grow out of it, some never figure it out. Halle Berry once said "being a beautiful woman never gave me any advantage in life." LOL!

But yeah, I favor affirmative action in universities because (1) we need more diversity, diversity makes us better human beings because we learn from more experiences, and (2) because I see the subtle forces that work against non-white students.

While, yes, there are surely white male professors that behave like that, I have seen first-hand female professors that give preferential treatment to female students. Regarding gender, I would say that females have it a bit easier, though I suppose it depends on the school and the luck you get with professors. At my university, there are a few more female professors than male. Most professors aren't sexist (at least seemingly so), but there are some "feminazi's" (so to speak) that think that all men are sexist pigs or what have you. I'm sure that there are some male professors that are the reverse, sure, but it shows more with anti-male sentiment than anti-female.

Plus we males get to constantly here that if two drunk students have sex, it's ALWAYS the male taking advantage of the girl, ALWAYS. We get so many conflicting messages saying to both "be a man" and that we simultaneously must be completely colorblind regarding sex...it's ridiculous.

 

[Iron Mal]

freedoms i am talking about are how society views a group of people. Whites in American are viewed in vary of ways, as individuals but other race groups are confined to small assigned roles. Believe it or not how society views on groups can and does have an affect on how you view yourself and obviously other people
and about the immigration thing am aware that most were poor when they got here my point is if your decedent got here in 1700's and weren't enslaved they had a higher chance of gaining more wealth.

So you're complaining about the archtypal roles people have in the media? (at least that's what I'm assuming based on what you said)

With more ethnic minority, female and homosexual/bisexual writers and directors entering various medias and more celebreties from various backgrounds achieving greater fame this is something that has changed significantly in recent history (compare the days where we used black-face in film to today where there quite a few big minority stars out there).

And stating that a family who has been stable in one location for a long time has more wealth at their disposal than one that has migrated into a new country and culture recently isn't really a reflection on discrimination or race, that's an economic observation and would naturally apply to any family regardless of race or background.

So now I have to ask how exactly that affects our personal freedoms in any way?

 

[KoSTHB]

Tell me, how does that, in any way, contradict what I said? I said that non-whites get SOME advantages in SOME areas, I recognize that police treatment is certainly not one of them (nor do you need to convince me that our court system is quite fucked up).

Most of the prison population here is imprisoned for possessing or selling a goddamn plant, and that's also an outlet for racism for many cops. Why else would crack be punished 18 times more harshly than cocaine, the exact same drug?

This is not something you need to tell me, but that doesn't mean that blacks don't have any advantages over whites in OTHER areas (or rather, where whites are viewed with more suspicion than non-whites).

I suppose I would say that, in my opinion, blacks get the shit end of the stick more than whites in the US, and Arabs getting the worst end of it currently. Regarding gender, though, males and females both have extreme benefits and extreme detriments based solely on the lack or possession of a penis, and to say that one has it "better" than another is misinformed at the very least.

Btw this isn't about Black and White but what i just asked if you are aware of any places where non-whites have a better chance of success, but whatever definition since i hope most of us agree that going to jail is not a success in life

 

[chadachada123]

2) In American culture, being any race or any gender or any sexual orientation brings with each some massive benefits and some massive downsides. Yes, being white, straight, and male gives a person advantages, but it also gives him disadvantages (like being told, for example, hey, you've got it "easy" in life, so we're going to give preferential treatment to others because they "don't have it as easy"). Being non-white gives different advantages in some areas, being gay or bi gives certain advantages in other areas, and being female gives some other advantages in various fields. Ever see a man get ANYTHING close to a fair ruling in a custody or alimony battle?

What are these "massive benefits" that LGBT individuals receive? What about these "massive benefits" that minorities receive? I'm just interested in what you mean by that.

That was more in reference to females than gays/minorities, I should have worded it better. As I worded it, I was incorrect.

Although, I must also include atheists in these discussions. Atheists get shat on just as much as non-whites or gays in social settings, and as an atheist myself, it sucks that my chance of keeping a job can hinge on my beliefs depending on how big of an asshole my boss is. Being in the least-trusted "religious" group certainly sucks sometimes, especially socially.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

/Snip

Just wanted you to know I agree with you on the whole 'Affirmative Action' thing. It needs to be more about getting people out of social situations, such as being born poor, then overcoming some sort of theoretical 'discrimination level.' The very existence of Affirmative Action, in it's current state, could very well be held high as an example of discrimination.

After all each qualified individual overlooked just so the school can meet a 'skin quota' has just been discriminated against.

 

[Simon1]

They're hidden in the... wait, This isn't what you were asking about. Awkward...

 

[chadachada123]

Tell me, how does that, in any way, contradict what I said? I said that non-whites get SOME advantages in SOME areas, I recognize that police treatment is certainly not one of them (nor do you need to convince me that our court system is quite fucked up).

Most of the prison population here is imprisoned for possessing or selling a goddamn plant, and that's also an outlet for racism for many cops. Why else would crack be punished 18 times more harshly than cocaine, the exact same drug?

This is not something you need to tell me, but that doesn't mean that blacks don't have any advantages over whites in OTHER areas (or rather, where whites are viewed with more suspicion than non-whites).

I suppose I would say that, in my opinion, blacks get the shit end of the stick more than whites in the US, and Arabs getting the worst end of it currently. Regarding gender, though, males and females both have extreme benefits and extreme detriments based solely on the lack or possession of a penis, and to say that one has it "better" than another is misinformed at the very least.

Btw this isn't about Black and White but what i just asked if you are aware of any places where non-whites have a better chance of success, but whatever definition since i hope most of us agree that going to jail is not a success in life

I suppose, then, that no, I don't know of any places where whites aren't given preferential treatment outside of Detroit or other non-majority-white areas. I do certainly agree that regarding cops there is massive racism, even in Detroit, both white-on-black and black-on-white. I have a hard time using "non-white" to describe anything other than "black," though, because I live pretty close to Detroit, and no other racial group is involved in politics in Michigan.

We definitely need to fix the drug laws, as that's a big source of institutionalized racism left here in the US.

 

[nothingspringstomind]

least you don't have as much of a problem as we Brits get with the (insane) class system in this country.

To quote Reginald D Hunter;

"A class system is what you use to discriminate against people who look like you."