You're victims?

[SnakeoilSage]

Because they are talking about experiences that happened to them? And they are white straight males? They have never been discriminated against for being black gay women because they aren't black gay women.

I'd like to meet a black gay woman. That'd probably be like meeting... just about everyone else because the human experience can't be summed up by your skin color, sexual preference or gender.

 

[spartan231490]

Because they are talking about experiences that happened to them? And they are white straight males? They have never been discriminated against for being black gay women because they aren't black gay women.

^this? I don't really understand what you're saying op. What exactly is your point of confusion.

 

[BRex21]

The fact is, even if you were born on the same day, in the same hospital next door to a child who was a minority you have benefited from bring white. Even if we put aside all of the social advantages of being white in America (which are numerous) you had a better chance of finding a job, are more likely to get promoted, may get payed more for the same work, and enjoy a longer life expectancy.

These "facts" are an issue of causation without correlation. When examined, life expectancy in America more often than not falls into economic categories than race and simply affects more blacks because more blacks are poor. I'm not denying that there is a serious issue in America that ensures poor people go to poor schools that ultimately fail them, simply that poor does not equal black and black does not equal poor(substitute any minority for black if you will). But consider this:
Black women live 76.1 years. White men live 75.4 years. In fact, there is no group of women in the states that will be outlived by any group of men, is this sexism?
Got my numbers from here, a little out of date. http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20050228/us-life-expectancy-best-ever-says-cdc
Well it could be, considering that Despite an already longer and healthier life span, Congress and the President, between 1970 and the present, have passed over 70 different medical programs, research projects and treatment initiatives, at costs exceeding $100 Billion dollars, which are specific for women and girls, yet completely and systematically rejected and ignored any calls to do the same for men. In fact even when there is overlap men are often denied treatment, despite HPV causing cancers in both men and women and at similar rates the vaccine, that has been shown to be effective, it is only administered to girls some countries allow men to pay, most will not provide this potentially life saving vaccine. Men with breast cancer have frequently been denied coverage to programs for low income and the first successful man to apply, (this guy http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44065422/#.TtL9BHpml7s) happened to BE black when white men were denied.

The same goes for the wage gap, women DO make $0.75 on the dollar BUT this is due to a number of factors For example on average full time women work fewer hours than full time men:
(from a study done by the Manhattan Institute)

The second being that men make up 97% of workplace fatalities.
once you eliminate these factors the "wage gap" is drastically reduced and sometimes goes in the other direction meaning it isn't a matter of gender so much as the hours you work and what you do.

As for better chances of finding a job, up until recently, the us government had been using ITS assets to provide minorities with jobs, consider how the recession and cuts to government services like the post office have affected the black community. It isn't that the recession is racist, its that the government has been propping them up and can't continue to do so.

You are making a lot of bold statements that you cant back up with anything substantial. Most privilege is circumstantial and effects small groups rather than anything as universal as a race or a sex and quite frankly people pushing views otherwise have been trying to do some pretty horrible things around the globe.

 

[Darius Brogan]

Everybody is a victim of something.

I've been subject to racism my entire life... and I'm, quite literally, as white as a human being can get... It doesn't bother me any, because I'm well aware of the fact that ANYBODY can be subject to racism.

 

[Cavouku]

The majority is always going to have that "X factor" going for them, let's make this clear. The more similarities you have with potential employers, the more likely you are to be employed. This includes skin colour, sexuality, religion, and even class. It's like a form of nepotism on a giant scale. So there's jobs. And then in social circles it's the same thing, friends like friends who have things in common with them.

I'm a straight white guy, and I haven't faced much adversity in life, certainly not truly hard adversity. I probably will someday. But other people have experienced adversity, and it's had to do with their race, or class, or sexuality. These people (white straight men) are not the majority of discrimination cases, but they're the majority on the internet, and in North America, Europe, Australia, new Zealand, etc., and if 50% of people online are white straight males, and 10% of them have been discriminated due to that, and 1% of those people go on the Escapist, that's still a shitload of people.

Let's pretend there are 1 billion people online. If half of those are white straight males, that's 500 million. Ten percent of that is 50 million. One percent of that is 500'000. If there are a million users on the Escapist, that's half of the users that have been discriminated for being white, straight men.
These numbers are not at all accurate, this is just an example

And that's why white straight men weigh in on their opinions. Law of large numbers comes into play yet again.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Okay, OP. Name how many financial aid programs there are for white, straight males?
How about other aid systems?
Not many, huh?
You see, because white straight males have historically had an advantage doesn't mean they still do, and because other groups now have those advantages doesn't mean society is fair.

Yeaaaaaah. I actually went to apply for federal aid a few years back (Because it was that or I became homeless). The woman at the office who helped me fill the forms out even told me, 'If you aren't black and/or a pregnant and/or a single mother, you aren't going to get anything.' But! I filled out the forms anyway because there weren't too many other options.

Lo and behold, I was on the streets within a month. (I'm a white male, by the way.)

I still want my government cheese, goddammit!

 

[Zakarath]

I only have a very minor complaint about how I'm constantly receiving e-mails from my college about scholarships and internships for immigrants/Indians/blacks/whatever but I, being part of the majority demographic of white & male, see opportunities that apply to me only very rarely. I get that it's assumed that I'm less disadvantaged or whatever and don't need the help as much, but still, I want an internship, so it stings a little to get left out of a chance to get one... :/

 

[Jegsimmons]

in short, political correctness is screwing us (white males) over in subtle ways that people wont acknowledge.

Okay, OP. Name how many financial aid programs there are for white, straight males?
How about other aid systems?
Not many, huh?
You see, because white straight males have historically had an advantage doesn't mean they still do, and because other groups now have those advantages doesn't mean society is fair.

Yeaaaaaah. I actually went to apply for federal aid a few years back (Because it was that or I became homeless). The woman at the office who helped me fill the forms out even told me, 'If you aren't black and/or a pregnant single mother, you aren't going to get anything.' But! I filled out the forms anyway because there weren't too many other options.

Lo and behold, I was on the streets within a month. (I'm a white male, by the way.)

I still want my government cheese, goddammit!

sure does hurt when ones in college and wont get many grants, but instead bank loans that you'll be paying off for 15 years or more after college.

 

[SilentCom]

White straight males bring up the race card?

Anyways, I think people need to stop playing any discrimination card and start playing the human card. Seriously, shouldn't we all be past racism and all that crap? It's like beating a dead horse but worse, there is always someone trying to drag that carcass back in so the beating may continue. Bury the horse and let it be forgotten so we may all get back to our lives and building a better future without dead horses everywhere.

 

[Logiclul]

Obvious troll.

I'm a white male, blue eyes, BROWN hair.

Sadly that doesn't qualify me for a multitude of scholarships, but God loves Tyrone Black as he qualifies for the Negro fund which donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to negros in my area. And God must also love Jallupia Sanchez, because she qualifies for the Latino Fund which donates much money to Latinos!

Is there a white fund you ask? Alas, there is not... but I may apply to generic scholarships which those who apply for Negro and Latino funds are too, and sometimes double book, so to speak.

But no; I'm not being discriminated against, I mean look at all the advantages I gain from being white! Like.. um... uh....
..
...

 

[bigwon]

"White people have more in common with black people then they do with rich people."
Bullworth (Good show! look it up if you can )

Now all they need to do is realise it! NAGNAMNIT! (I'm looking at you white and black people)

My opinion it has more to do with who got handed the shit end of stick in history, then ANYTHING else! Generally there are more black folks today that are more impacted negatively by America's history then white folks.

add any prejudices of the general population, and you have todays problem!

My solution: Just acknowledge it for what it is, and be the most awesome person you can be! Sure racism might effect your job interview, school systems, customer service, peers, etc. but in the grand scheme of things they are worse off then you are if you are able to put yourself above it!

 

[ShadowStar42]

These "facts" are an issue of causation without correlation. When examined, life expectancy in America more often than not falls into economic categories than race and simply affects more blacks because more blacks are poor. I'm not denying that there is a serious issue in America that ensures poor people go to poor schools that ultimately fail them, simply that poor does not equal black and black does not equal poor(substitute any minority for black if you will). But consider this:
Black women live 76.1 years. White men live 75.4 years. In fact, there is no group of women in the states that will be outlived by any group of men, is this sexism?
Got my numbers from here, a little out of date. http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20050228/us-life-expectancy-best-ever-says-cdc
Well it could be, considering that Despite an already longer and healthier life span, Congress and the President, between 1970 and the present, have passed over 70 different medical programs, research projects and treatment initiatives, at costs exceeding $100 Billion dollars, which are specific for women and girls, yet completely and systematically rejected and ignored any calls to do the same for men. In fact even when there is overlap men are often denied treatment, despite HPV causing cancers in both men and women and at similar rates the vaccine, that has been shown to be effective, it is only administered to girls some countries allow men to pay, most will not provide this potentially life saving vaccine. Men with breast cancer have frequently been denied coverage to programs for low income and the first successful man to apply, (this guy http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44065422/#.TtL9BHpml7s) happened to BE black when white men were denied.

Wow, way to cherry pick. But of course you're right, the problem here isn't race it's poverty, and it coincidence that while 15% of the nation is in poverty more 30% of African Americans are below the poverty line. To say that this has nothing to do with race is to say that this is the way that it should be, that African Americans are simply in general not as good as other minorities and therefor belong below the poverty line. Thing will be equal and not requiring correction when we see 13% of African Americans as CEOs, and in the Senate and Congress and in the lists of billionaires as well as of the impoverished. Same goes for every other classification although I do use African Americans because they have generally been among the harder hit.

The same goes for the wage gap, women DO make $0.75 on the dollar BUT this is due to a number of factors For example on average full time women work fewer hours than full time men:
(from a study done by the Manhattan Institute)

The second being that men make up 97% of workplace fatalities.
once you eliminate these factors the "wage gap" is drastically reduced and sometimes goes in the other direction meaning it isn't a matter of gender so much as the hours you work and what you do.

As for better chances of finding a job, up until recently, the us government had been using ITS assets to provide minorities with jobs, consider how the recession and cuts to government services like the post office have affected the black community. It isn't that the recession is racist, its that the government has been propping them up and can't continue to do so.

You are making a lot of bold statements that you cant back up with anything substantial. Most privilege is circumstantial and effects small groups rather than anything as universal as a race or a sex and quite frankly people pushing views otherwise have been trying to do some pretty horrible things around the globe.

You're doing the same thing, you show a image of wage gap - hours worked but it in no way shoes a causal relationship. This information doesn't say if, for example, men work more hours because they have an easier time finding jobs in the first place. Or if the promotions they receive more often then women don't happen to translate to more hours worked as promotions often do. Nor does it address the number of women who have chosen not to enter the workforce because they've faced this discrimination in the past and it has driven them to give up. You're throwing out numbers that are in direct opposition to what is plainly visible to anyone who looks around and pays attention to the world, and are hoping that a pretty picture will make it all sound plausible.

 

[Iron Mal]

Because everyone knows the most persecuted people are whites, males, and Christians. /sarcasm

Personally I don't get it, it sounds so silly. Some people have this bizarre firm belief that they're the most discriminated against when really they simply aren't at all.

That would be a silly statement to make, whites aren't 'the most discriminated against' and that's not really the point being made, what is trying to be established is that discrimination does occur towards straight white males (and that it isn't as uncommon or trivial as some people would like to believe).

It's actually somewhat unsettling to note that there are quite a few very intelligent people who while I'm sure they oppose racism and other forms of discrimination will unironically follow this up with statements such as those made by Zachary Amaranth.

It's also all they know. It's really difficult to point out privilege to folks who have never experienced any real adversity. Hell, a lot of the victimisation I see isn't even really victimisation, it's more not getting their way and crying foul.

The problem is that not only is this a somewhat widely held view but it is also something that if it isn't actual racism, it comes very uncomfortably close to it (imagine if a similar statement was made in regards to a minority, it would be interpreted very differently and would probablly provoke much more of an outraged response from most of us).

This should be make abundantly clear, you can be racist towards straight, caucasian males and regardless of the justifications or explanations that some people make for it, there is still no excuse for it just as there wouldn't be any for discrimination against anyone.

White, straight males aren't 'the most discriminated against' group out there (I don't think that any one minority can really claim that title) but rest assured they are discriminated against and it should be taken as seriously as when anyone else is treated in such a fashion.

 

[ElPatron]

Because being a white straight male doesn't always give you advantages in life.

Pretty much the only time this is true is if you are in a majority non-white society. This is what I mean about not knowing the level of privilege you receive.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

I live in a white-majority society and there are white people with shitty lives and black people who have good lives. I bet that if you were going to make some kind of ratio you'd find there is about the same percentage of poverty in most common races.

 

[WarDialler]

We're Victims?

YOU'RE = YOU ARE. The hint is in the APOSTROPHE.
YOUR = Posessive, as in "is that YOUR spelling mistake I'm correcting?"

Please, don't take this as discriminatory, but unless these things get pointed out, nobody will learn and mistakes will be repeated.

 

[ShadowStar42]

Because being a white straight male doesn't always give you advantages in life.

Pretty much the only time this is true is if you are in a majority non-white society. This is what I mean about not knowing the level of privilege you receive.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

I live in a white-majority society and there are white people with shitty lives and black people who have good lives. I bet that if you were going to make some kind of ratio you'd find there is about the same percentage of poverty in most common races.

What society is it that you live in? Pretty much all the information that I have is in regards to American inequality but I'm sure information can be found about wherever you're from. There is of course the possibility that you are right, but looking at conditions in the rest of the world you'll understand if I find it unlikely.

 

[BRex21]

To say that this has nothing to do with race is to say that this is the way that it should be, that African Americans are simply in general not as good as other minorities and therefor belong below the poverty line.

Not at all its to say that since African Americans make up more of the current poor and, America has a system that consistently fails the poor that African American poor will stay poor. Not out of racism but out of a system that fails anyone in that demographic. However affirmative action specifically singles out specific minority groups stating that they can't do it on their own. Not EVERYTHING boils down to skin colour and gender

You're doing the same thing, you show a image of wage gap - hours worked but it in no way shoes a causal relationship.

No in fact id DOES show a casual relationship. Its true that it can't prove causation, but hours worked is a stronger correlation than gender in terms of income. Quite frankly there is simply no provable blanket causation factor for why one group, in hindsight i should have posted the article or study, although you also could have googled it, here it is regardless.
http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_3_gender-gap.html

This information doesn't say if, for example, men work more hours because they have an easier time finding jobs in the first place. Or if the promotions they receive more often then women don't happen to translate to more hours worked as promotions often do.

The study in fact does, in groups they surveyed, such as pharmacists income primarily varied based on number of years worked and number of hours worked. Women frequently looked for more flexible work weeks while men typically picked up the overtime this provides easy enough reasoning as to why men would make more than women.

Nor does it address the number of women who have chosen not to enter the workforce because they've faced this discrimination in the past and it has driven them to give up.

If people quit when they faced adversity we would simply not have a workforce, most young workers have experienced some form of ageism or another. discrimination happens for all races and creeds But to say that having an employer provide you with a more flexible schedule is discrimination would simply not be a valid argument. Besides if a man decides to give up, he chooses to starve, women simply have far superior access to welfare systems. More to the point of discrimination, completely denying people medical treatments based on gender is very obviously discrimination.

You're throwing out numbers that are in direct opposition to what is plainly visible to anyone who looks around and pays attention to the world, and are hoping that a pretty picture will make it all sound plausible.

So let me get this strait... you aren't disputing the statistics, but you are claiming they are in direct opposition to what is plainly visible stating that its wrong?
Besides why should i take your personal view of the world over peer reviewed study? I have a sincere doubt that you have a view of all that goes on in the business world, or really any broad experience in the workforce Besides I work for a company that mandates that i earn less than women doing the same job as me, they know i could easily go work for a competitor and make more so they have had to slip me gift cards with my cheques.

Also, please fix your quotes.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

It might just be me, but in these discussions, I'm tickled by the statements akin to; "White's will never know what it's like to be judged based on the color of their skin." But hey, who am I to point out the humor in these super cereal proceedings?

I'm sure we've all had experiences where people have made snap judgments on the type of people we are based on the most idiotic criteria. Should I pull out a specific *card* any and everytime it happens? Meh, I prefer to raise a single eyebrow in confusion, shake my head in disagreement and simply walk away in apathy. Guess I don't like feeling like a victim.