Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

[insanelich]

Q.E.D.

Plus, I played Eve for two weeks and go so caught up in it I wanted to buy a sub. Until I realized I spent more time waiting than gaming and that I wasn't going to find a corp worth anything in a million years in Minmatar 1.0 space.

I must admit I'm a bit confused now. If you spent most of the time waiting, what was it that made you get caught up in it?

Finding a good corp can be a challenge, with all the diversity in EVE. But truth to be told, the starter systems (1.0-0.5) isn't the best places to look. What you should have been looking for (at the forums etc) is corporations who are established in low sec. It instantly transforms the playing field into something completely different than what you might experience in safe, empire space.

Id also like to make an additional comment, and thats to refute what some posters have said about older players being more powerful etc. This is completely false. Somethingawful came to EVE and formed an alliance that pretty much carved a name for themselves since day one. In the beginning they flew frigates and cruisers with crap equipment yet they still managed to kill stuff, and they worked their way up the ladder in a short amount of time. They competed with some of the biggest and oldest alliances in the game.

Grind - next ship - grind - next ship - grind - next ship.

At around my Stabber I realized what I was doing.

 

[Violator[xL]]

Hilarious as usual. I tried a 14 day free trial too but it couldn't hold my attention for more then 3 days. And I play paradox games so it's not like I'm not used to huge complicated interfaces.

 

[insanelich]

Grind - next ship - grind - next ship - grind - next ship.

At around my Stabber I realized what I was doing.

That sounds really boring.... perhaps you should have tried playing the game not grinding the game. Get involved in the tactics, and corp warfare. Try and set up an empire of your own. Do something interesting rather than try and get the next biggest ship out there.

I fly a damn interceptor, it's the smallest ship in the game. I'm damn good at it and it took me a couple of months, that's all. I can be more than useful in PVP taking down people who have taken years perfecting their battleship because when I'm there, no-one but me moves, am I move faster than the fucking rockets. That's fun.

Do you rabid fanboys actually ever make new characters and check out what's available in high sec?
Because I can tell you, nothing. And getting to lowsec requires being a part of a lowsec alliance.

 

[nastykerm]

Do you rabid fanboys

Excuse me, didn't you complain earlier about personal insults? I think you are a hypocrite.
You are a hypocrite with piss poor arguments. Everything you say is refuted by reasonable arguments even though you present none yourself, and the only thing you can do is to continue to lower yourself by snide generalizations.

actually ever make new characters and check out what's available in high sec?

Because I can tell you, nothing. And getting to lowsec requires being a part of a lowsec alliance.

You don't make new characters in EVE, as there is no 'level cap'. Some people have alts, but you don't make a *new* character. And actually you are wrong, there are stuff in high sec you just have to stop expecting the game to hold your hand and guide you. Everyone starts in high sec, and high sec is mostly a trading hub and training grounds for new people. People living in deep space go there every now and then to buy items or ships at the best price.

 

[DeLukas]

I love when he reviews a game like this. It's almost more fun to scan the postings where the fanboys are so insecure that they feel the need to defend their favorite time sink.

 

[jodertio]

hehe now i see that Yahtzee is a YCS goon and u really bash eve when the eve-o thread was on YCS (after threadnaught incident)

 

[Vinanath Diesel]

Originally by; Unholy Preacher, Trade Consortium

"You have to understand that a lot of people suffer from instant gratification syndrome where they need to be entertained now, not later. That being said however, eve isn't a game that draws you in quickly but rather a very social game.

ZP has always been a bitter person which also makes it appealing as he says everything that we wish to say without our social boundary watchdogs in our head. He often makes very sensationalists comments to get a rise out of people (essentially an attention *****) and to say that he produces balanced reviews is far off the mark.

Does this mean im an anti-zp person? no, i view it for what it is, great video satire ladened with hillarious visuals. The problem however is that a lot of people think these are balanced reviews in that respect and given his lack of MMO experience, its not surprising that he churned out this type of review. Lastly, a good reviewer is only as good as his own personal experiences of which he has none in the mmo field."

/signed

 

[Odjin]

You're only thinking in terms of individual encounters. Part of MMO's like Eve, and where the strategy comes in, is doing the background work to set up those encounters in your favour. You're stacking the deck a bit by talking about "fair and challenging matches" when part of the point of strategy is to avoid fair fights whenever possible. Both sides then employ tactics to get the best result out of those rigged encounters. Plenty of attempted "gang bangs" fail when the smaller side has a plan and the bigger side is relying on weight of numbers.

You don't get the point but I guess this is because you did never play PoA ( as it is a team game about tactics not a deathmatch game ). Games with are unbalanced ( and I mean unbalanced in game developers terms ) are not fun for skilled and tactical/strategic players because playing lame wins over skills. Some might like this style of playing but paying for an unbalanced and unfair game is definitely asked too much for... especially if balanced and fair games can be played without this price tag. If a game wants money then it has to deliver something. And cheating, laming and gang-banging are not part of this formula.

The gameplay isn't broken, precisely because letting players use their imagination is a key part of what the game's supposed to be about. If you didn't have to use your imagination, that would mean it was broken.

It is broken ( again from a game devers point of view ). You deliver a product to the customer which is flawed from one end to the other and expect him to buy it. That's not a good game, it's a bad design. This is like making games only backed up by graphics but the rest is lousy. The same goes for bad design games kept together by the premise of "requiring imagination". Same problem, different names.

 

[Chnmmr]

How to start?

I registered just to post here, though I might as well post elsewhere too. I've always enjoyed Yahtzees rants on games and they tend to be quite spot on. He's also right about EvE.

BUT! and this is a BIG But...

I am a 2 year player of EvE online and I remembered when I started. Gosh it was overwhelming but I had 2 flatmates that played the game and pointed me in the right direction. To many people this game would appear boring. And the reason for this is quite simple. Even though EvE came before WoW (Note BEFORE meaning that it cant be a wow clone,) it does not follow the trends of any other MMO out there.

What does that mean? It doesn't hold you hand for the first 20 levels with a linear story line and plot. This means that people who are used to having their hand held while they learn about the game will be utterly lost. It is not a game of instant gratification and that is what is so appealing. All other MMOs you play for 1 month, reach max level and then think 'what now?' In EvE after a month you're out of that frigate and barely into a cruiser. Accomplishments mean something, the world constantly changes around you. Markets crash, alliances form and crumble, you win battles, you loose battles. Its a constant changing world which you just dont see in any other stagnant MMO.

As to the review, it is right... for the 1% of the game he covered. The Devs have admited that PvE is boring and needs work (which they are working on.) Unfortunately Yahtzees habit of playing MMOs single player and going out of his way to play the game in the most dull way possible means that *shock* we get really bad impressions of a game. If you want to play EvE right then try it for a month. Mine a bit, Mission a bit, get a feel for the games intricacies and quirks, then join a PvP corp or PvE/PvP corp, THEN decide if the game isnt for you.

EvE is a huge sandbox where anything goes. Do you make the sandcastles or destroy them?

 

[nastykerm]

I love when he reviews a game like this. It's almost more fun to scan the postings where the fanboys are so insecure that they feel the need to defend their favorite time sink.

And I have yet so see an informed opinion on behalf of those that rubbish EVE. Yahtzee included.

 

[insanelich]

I love when he reviews a game like this. It's almost more fun to scan the postings where the fanboys are so insecure that they feel the need to defend their favorite time sink.

And I have yet so see an informed opinion on behalf of those that rubbish EVE. Yahtzee included.

The point you imply is most interesting one. Only fanboys may have an informed opinion of the game?

Why does that remind me of the first Twisp & Catsby strip?

 

[lord667]

You're only thinking in terms of individual encounters. Part of MMO's like Eve, and where the strategy comes in, is doing the background work to set up those encounters in your favour. You're stacking the deck a bit by talking about "fair and challenging matches" when part of the point of strategy is to avoid fair fights whenever possible. Both sides then employ tactics to get the best result out of those rigged encounters. Plenty of attempted "gang bangs" fail when the smaller side has a plan and the bigger side is relying on weight of numbers.

You don't get the point but I guess this is because you did never play PoA ( as it is a team game about tactics not a deathmatch game ). Games with are unbalanced ( and I mean unbalanced in game developers terms ) are not fun for skilled and tactical/strategic players because playing lame wins over skills.

Playing lame is strategy. Strategy is the art of planning how you're going to win; playing "lame" usually boils down to ensuring you have the best chance of winning, whether it be bringing enough dudes to handle anything you run into, or sitting on the graveyard ensuring that ressers don't get the chance to chase your flag carrier.

You can prefer games where "lame" tactics don't work and you have a decent chance of winning every possible fight, but the point is exactly that: you have, by design, a decent chance of winning every possible fight. The strategy involved in those games is inherently limited precisely by the forced and uncontrollable "balance" that you keep pointing to. I won't deny that it's both fun and strategic (apart from anything else, not having played it would make me a fool for saying so) but your strategic options are restricted by the nature of the game. MMO's simply extend the strategy to where you can cause fights that the other guys don't have a chance of winning, and to where you have to think about how you're going to avoid those kinds of fights, or how you're going to turn the tables from an initial disadvantage. You might not *like* having to strategise in that way, and the fact that you consider yourself strategic and yet don't like it may lead you to think that it's therefore not strategic; but strategy it still very much is.

Some might like this style of playing but paying for an unbalanced and unfair game is definitely asked too much for... especially if balanced and fair games can be played without this price tag. If a game wants money then it has to deliver something. And cheating, laming and gang-banging are not part of this formula.

Yes. Yes, they are. Although not to you, obviously.

The gameplay isn't broken, precisely because letting players use their imagination is a key part of what the game's supposed to be about. If you didn't have to use your imagination, that would mean it was broken.

It is broken ( again from a game devers point of view ). You deliver a product to the customer which is flawed from one end to the other and expect him to buy it. That's not a good game, it's a bad design.

It's fundamentally flawed only from the perspective of people who expect it to be something other than what it is meant to be. It has its flaws, but they are not inherent in the need to use your imagination. A good design is one that meets its design goals. Your problem is not with the design, it's with the concept. It's not broken, you just don't like way it's supposed to work.

This is like making games only backed up by graphics but the rest is lousy. The same goes for bad design games kept together by the premise of "requiring imagination". Same problem, different names.

Actually they're different. Generally speaking, the problem with games that are all graphics and no gameplay is that those games are not meant to be, and aren't sold as being, mere visual art, therefore they aren't doing what they're supposed to. Eve *is* doing what it's supposed to.

 

[nastykerm]

[

The point you imply is most interesting one. Only fanboys may have an informed opinion of the game?

No. As I wrote, I have yet to see an informed opinion. Do you know the meaning of the sentence?

Why does that remind me of the first Twisp & Catsby strip?

Because thats what you read? Lets have a rational debate? I'm sure you have it in you. Drop the fanboy generalization, and come up with proper arguments.

 

[lord667]

Do you rabid fanboys actually ever make new characters and check out what's available in high sec?
Because I can tell you, nothing.

Tell it to Suddenly Ninjas, or the Privateer Alliance, or Chribba, or any merc, empire war or griefer corp, or hell, even the lowliest two-bit can-flipper. There's plenty in highsec, but (say it with me!) you have to find it yourself.

If you're talking about what's available to day-one characters in highsec, then yes, it's more limited, but...(insert the rest of the thread all over again here).

And getting to lowsec requires being a part of a lowsec alliance.

Generally speaking, getting to nullsec requires being part of a solid alliance (Burn Eden and Star Fraction providing notable exceptions to show that there are possibilities besides that), but lowsec is perfectly accessible with a small corp or even solo, unless your sole desire is to carebear in complete and uninterrupted safety.

 

[synch987]

almost every mother fucker in these forums is just a yahtzee-wannabee, sticking their two-pennies in and using their biggest words. if you people aren't agreeing with him in the hope you'll gain approval you're venturing your shitty opinions, i really don't care what you think

fuck right off

 

[lord667]

almost every mother fucker in these forums is just a yahtzee-wannabee, sticking their two-pennies in and using their biggest words. if you people aren't agreeing with him in the hope you'll gain approval you're venturing your shitty opinions, i really don't care what you think

fuck right off

I don't care whether you care what I think. Go read something you do care about.