Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

[Roffey123]

How about you fags go out to a party once in your life. Get some action from a girl, and quit playing stupid MMO's.

And in the time you took to posting that, you would have been well on your way to getting some action. Whether or not it will be of the Homo Sapiens variety remains to be seen, but rest assured, it will be, at least, female.

On topic now, nice to see Yahtzee's coming back on form, he's been in a bit of a lull recently - let's hope he's been saving all that extra bile for christmas.

 

[nastykerm]

I'd believe that if you played as a whole civilization, or the leader got a screen similar to that of an RTS and can tell you to move to X or shoot x the same way you could in an RTS. Making the game that much more interesting since it's an RTS where your subjects are actually human.

Fair enough. But as mentioned in many ways it is. You build stuff, extract resources to build more stuff, and then you build vast armies and kill stuff, take land etc. Nothing is static in EVE. You can build an empire or loose an empire. There are alliance leades who virtually control thousands of players.



Ok. If Yahtzeee played the game properly, instead of a few hours of not bothering to learn the game then I would have no argument with the review. After all, different people like different things. I have never played guitar hero or the likes, but I'm not going to rubbish it without having played the game as its ment to pbe played. I could have loaded the game, played around with the settings menu then written a tounge in cheek article about how crap it was in the same way EVE was reviewed here.

Than too fucking bad my computer probably can't download this game and I don't make a habit of downloading things I know for sure I'm not going to keep (because I barely get 15$ a month)...you know what, do they have an all knowing wiki or accept alertpay as a form of payment?

You could pay your subscritption with ingame money

I'd be suprised if you were not a virgin

dude teach me then, teach me how to get with the ladies.

 

[Muon]

I think all the people posting in defense of EVE and mentioning that the multi-player PvP combat being the soul of the game are really communicating two things:

1. Don't play our game.

There's nothing that disgusts me more than a playerbase that believes itself in some way "a cut above" the average gamer for suffering through a game that lacks any compelling reasons to play beyond offering another novel way to kill other players. They even take pride in the sheer amount of information you're forced to memorize in order to play the game at all! ("Keeps out the undesirables," they say.) So what if player corporations are the soul of the game? PLAYERS ARE THE SOUL OF EVERY MULTIPLAYER GAME. I could find the same features with less crap surrounding them in multiple competing MMORPGs.

2. "We thrive on your misfortune."

That one of the chief reasons to play this game is to "feed on another player's tears" worries me. A culture that nurtures this sort of behavior is beyond reprehensible.

 

[yourkie1921]

Fair enough. But as mentioned in many ways it is. You build stuff, extract resources to build more stuff, and then you build vast armies and kill stuff, take land etc. Nothing is static in EVE. You can build an empire or loose an empire. There are alliance leades who virtually control thousands of players.

Ok, than it's not realy an RTS to any decent number of people.

You could pay your subscritption with ingame money

Oh my god. Do you mean that for real or is your tounge in your cheek?

dude teach me then, teach me how to get with the ladies.

At this point you might need money. This is coming from a person who acknowleges he is, as yahtzee says "to nerds what nerds are to normal person".

Ok. If Yahtzee played the game properly, instead of a few hours of not bothering to learn the game then I would have no argument with the review. After all, different people like different things. I have never played guitar hero or the likes, but I'm not going to rubbish it without having played the game as its ment to pbe played. I could have loaded the game, played around with the settings menu then written a tounge in cheek article about how crap it was in the same way EVE was reviewed here.

Well, here's the thing. Guitar hero adds no game modes that absolutely suck. And as long as you're trying to progress through the game or win that will not be a valid arguement. It's like the common defense for halo3's single player "it's a multi-player game" If Halo is strictly multi-player to the point you can't review single player aspects negatively than there should be no single player.

 

[insanelich]

Reasonable Eve players: "Eve is a game with very elaborate metagaming aspects, PvP with true risk and a lot of gameplay elements requiring a significantly larger time investment, but in the short term it's boring and it's PvE experience is horrible."
Eve fanboys: "You can't say anything bad about Eve unless you like it, because obviously you're not playing it right or not playing it enough if you don't like it."

Yes, Eve has real risk and real planning for PvP. It also has real scamming and real betrayal. Much unlike WoW.

But if you don't like the endless, cutthroat PvP and a complete lack of content other than very slow PvP, Eve just isn't your game. PvE-wise, WoW beats Eve anyday. Lore-wise, WoW beats Eve anyday. Eve does beat WoW in really changing the game world however. If you got the patience for it.

 

[Atrer]

I have a friend who has been trying to talk me into the Eve-Online experience. I've done the WOW thing and, granted, I love space stuff, but what bothered me is that you can't get out of your ship and explore. Basically, what he described to me was the same thing Yahtzee described. You just shoot at other ships and that's basically it. Of course, isn't that what all MMORPGS are? Just hack and slash games with some missions thrown in that include hacking and slashing?

Lets not forget about the mystical delivery missions. Even with just the trial I played for EVE they seemed a bit obsessed with them.

 

[JoshuaMadoc]

The part about the shin kicking is what I've been going through with my experience in MMOs... I've stubbornly demanded for an MMO that's Gaiapolis on breakneck speeds in a nutshell -- which is "impossible" because the whole shin kicking system is to compensate for lagging -- and I still haven't given up on that same demand.

What a waste I must be to be in such a minority mindset.

 

[bmike210]

There's nothing that disgusts me more than a playerbase that believes itself in some way "a cut above" the average gamer for suffering through a game that lacks any compelling reasons to play beyond offering another novel way to kill other players. They even take pride in the sheer amount of information you're forced to memorize in order to play the game at all! ("Keeps out the undesirables," they say.) So what if player corporations are the soul of the game? PLAYERS ARE THE SOUL OF EVERY MULTIPLAYER GAME. I could find the same features with less crap surrounding them in multiple competing MMORPGs.

Is this a troll? I honestly can't tell.

 

[OverDrive148]

I agree and disagree with this review. When you first start out in Eve, you are nearly flooded with a deluge of information and instructions, which creates what we call the learning cliff, if you will.(search eve online learning curve on google images). I disagree in terms of Yahtzee's refusal to join a player corporation. The corps in Eve are what make it run, the real lifeblood of the game (and to an extent, alliances), sure when you start out in high security space you can only do one of two things really--

1) mine
2) mission

Both can get to be tedious after a while, mining more than missioning, at least there is a variety of missions to go through, all five levels of which differ greatly in difficulty. But the time it takes to get bored from missions is used to train up to the next level of missions, by training up skills (connections is a classic case) you pretty much expierence each level of mission totally--preparing you for the next level of missions, which hand out more pay and a new variety of things to do, as well as requiring a larger ship, better guns, etc. But the real bread and butter of the game is the pvp section. The tactical expierence of the game is the section I really enjoy. When you enter a fleet with your alliance/corp and go out on an operation to knock out a POS (player owned starbase) or to blow up a titan, or just going out to roam and engage other gangs, you never know what is going to happen. You can fly a logistics ship (rep ship if you will), a force recon (scout/electronic warfare platform), or just a battleship with damage, its all up to you. Battles are won and lost on this principle, but it always gets my adrenaline pumping (a personal feeling, other people might not feel as strongly about it). I see the high security areas as a single-player kind of expierence, you (usually) dont get attacked by other players, you can call in people to help you out, etc, and the low security/0.0 areas as the multiplayer section, where anything goes--everything is fluid and dangerous. Although I do have a few qualms about some things, the lag in big fleet battles (happens in most every game when you stretch the limits), the pay-per-month issue, I like the game. If you hate MMO's, you will hate Eve. There are some aspects to the game that people can draw on, but no game is perfect. You either like it or you dont

 

[ikalugin]

Sorry for not actually reading all other coments.
I DISAGREEEE with the review. Iy does say the truth but, no offence 14 days are not enough. You would be a noob and have no clue even after a month of gameplay. By just playing trial and not joining corp/allience (e.g. RA or BOB) you WONT GET FUN. It is becouse EVE online is made for people to arrange massive KTA battles and sloughter each other on huge scale (the war between BOB and RA was massive). If you dont join them (and it takes about a month to doo that) playing eve is a waste of time. I personaly was a noob fpr a long time and fleet leders even caled me names for being stupid in pvp. But after 3 months of grinding and no social life I did it. Now I am usefull in game. So if u jump into a noob ship and expect to be best after 14 days u r wrong. First it takes time to learn all skills needed. Second u couldnt learn certain stuff on trial. Third they wont allow u to join cool allience before 2 weeks end (first u r a noob second u could be a spy or something). Third u WOULD be a noob in EVE becouse u would use drop down menus and not overview. And u need ts or ventrila. And 1-3 months of pvp training/skills bying. So u could say a game is shit becouse u didnt do what it is about - corp pvp. Also u could went another route - trade. U didnt even do that. And last. CAREBEARS SUCK (people who do safe pve of mining)

edit
read previous post.
totaly agree with it.
Falcon rules.
Death to peacefull miners and other carebears. Burn enemies poses. Build outpost. Thats the way.

 

[StarSyth]

such an crap review, then again I cant expect much from a single player gamer. but oh well here;

1. You join an MMORPG and don't play multiplayer? MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME?!?! by not joining a player corp, getting involved in gang/fleet warfare you basically ran around in COD4 without anyone one a server.

2. You state that the games tactics are the same as any mmo, kick at each others shins. That tells me right there you only managed to shoot NPC ships. The games mechanics ARE very tactical, in a gang/fleet you will have tacklers to prevent others from fleeing combined with specialist ships to do various things such as prevent an enemy from locking others, draining their power, slowing movement. 1000's of different tactical setups, styles and maneuvers makes EvE the best game for a player versus player experience.

3. Player corporations = an online job?. No my console loving friend, a corporation is a techy name for guild or clan. True SOME will be setup like businesses BUT that's the beauty of the game, 100's of corporations all run/played/operating the way the players want.

4. You review games yet at the same time you seem to be embarrassed about being a gamer. Me, my friends and even a few work colleges player EvE online and are "open" about it, the days of being a gamer being embarrassing are over with the majority of people these days be it a man or woman have played some form of computer game. Indeed MMO's are not for everyone but to say that players of these games are the people you wish to avoid is kinda calling the kettle black really. Online games are about interacting with other players no "sat in the bushes".

In conclusion stick to single player games, if you have no experience with MMORPG nor wish to play them then your a bad source for a review. kinda like asking a biker to review a car.

 

[Shadow-Knight]

I've played the trial, and yes, it is that bad.

 

[TaboriHK]

I agree with Yahtzee, this game is far too-impenetrable to play. The arguement, "you'll have fun in six months" holds little value for me when I could be having fun playing something else right now.

such an crap review, then again I cant expect much from a single player gamer. but oh well here;

1. You join an MMORPG and don't play multiplayer? MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME?!?! by not joining a player corp, getting involved in gang/fleet warfare you basically ran around in COD4 without anyone one a server.

2. You state that the games tactics are the same as any mmo, kick at each others shins. That tells me right there you only managed to shoot NPC ships. The games mechanics ARE very tactical, in a gang/fleet you will have tacklers to prevent others from fleeing combined with specialist ships to do various things such as prevent an enemy from locking others, draining their power, slowing movement. 1000's of different tactical setups, styles and maneuvers makes EvE the best game for a player versus player experience.

3. Player corporations = an online job?. No my console loving friend, a corporation is a techy name for guild or clan. True SOME will be setup like businesses BUT that's the beauty of the game, 100's of corporations all run/played/operating the way the players want.

4. You review games yet at the same time you seem to be embarrassed about being a gamer. Me, my friends and even a few work colleges player EvE online and are "open" about it, the days of being a gamer being embarrassing are over with the majority of people these days be it a man or woman have played some form of computer game. Indeed MMO's are not for everyone but to say that players of these games are the people you wish to avoid is kinda calling the kettle black really. Online games are about interacting with other players no "sat in the bushes".

In conclusion stick to single player games, if you have no experience with MMORPG nor wish to play them then your a bad source for a review. kinda like asking a biker to review a car.

To address in points:

1. A game should be able to stand on its own merits. Even if you aren't running around in a corporation, the game should offer you something. EVE does not. Be part of a group or wander ceaselessly in an endless vacuum.

2. Yeah yeah yeah, the same could be said of any MMORPG's PvP system. WoW is completely different too. That doesn't make EVE revolutionary, and the requirements to get to the point where you are having fun in PvP is ridiculous. You need to have a rich friend and a lot of time or else it will be months before you're doing anything resembling tactical combat.

3. Say what you want, but to be successful in this game you have to be on it constantly, making fine adjustments to what your character is building in terms of skill. If you don't treat it as a job, you end up with a subpar character doing backwater shit. And this is WAAAAY more of a job than any other MMORPG I've ever seen, ever.

4. If you don't get the self-deprecation humor, I don't know what to tell you. Being a gamer has traditionally been an embarassing trait, it's only in the past few years that that has really started to change. To reference this in humor seems obvious to me. And unlike MMORPG gamers, regular gamers actually have substantial lives that they balance, typically. Saying that MMORPGers have to sacrifice a significant portion of their lives for tangible rewards is the pot calling the kettle...a kettle. Take note of the fact that most MMORPGers (at least in my experience) are either married or terminally single. That's not happenstance.

The fact that he isn't an MMORPGer is precisely why is review holds a measure of value. I think people who are too into the culture aren't always able to have a realistic perspective on games. EVE really isn't a game. It's way too job-like, far too much about who you know and what you've done with your time. That's rewarding to some people, but those people probably feel the same way about their careers.

 

[Melaisis]

Oh my god. Do you mean that for real or is your tounge in your cheek?

Nope, you really can do that.

 

[bmike210]

I agree with Yahtzee, this game is far too-impenetrable to play. The arguement, "you'll have fun in six months" holds little value for me when I could be having fun playing something else right now.

such an crap review, then again I cant expect much from a single player gamer. but oh well here;

1. You join an MMORPG and don't play multiplayer? MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME?!?! by not joining a player corp, getting involved in gang/fleet warfare you basically ran around in COD4 without anyone one a server.

2. You state that the games tactics are the same as any mmo, kick at each others shins. That tells me right there you only managed to shoot NPC ships. The games mechanics ARE very tactical, in a gang/fleet you will have tacklers to prevent others from fleeing combined with specialist ships to do various things such as prevent an enemy from locking others, draining their power, slowing movement. 1000's of different tactical setups, styles and maneuvers makes EvE the best game for a player versus player experience.

3. Player corporations = an online job?. No my console loving friend, a corporation is a techy name for guild or clan. True SOME will be setup like businesses BUT that's the beauty of the game, 100's of corporations all run/played/operating the way the players want.

4. You review games yet at the same time you seem to be embarrassed about being a gamer. Me, my friends and even a few work colleges player EvE online and are "open" about it, the days of being a gamer being embarrassing are over with the majority of people these days be it a man or woman have played some form of computer game. Indeed MMO's are not for everyone but to say that players of these games are the people you wish to avoid is kinda calling the kettle black really. Online games are about interacting with other players no "sat in the bushes".

In conclusion stick to single player games, if you have no experience with MMORPG nor wish to play them then your a bad source for a review. kinda like asking a biker to review a car.

To address in points:

1. A game should be able to stand on its own merits. Even if you aren't running around in a corporation, the game should offer you something. EVE does not. Be part of a group or wander ceaselessly in an endless vacuum.

2. Yeah yeah yeah, the same could be said of any MMORPG's PvP system. WoW is completely different too. That doesn't make EVE revolutionary, and the requirements to get to the point where you are having fun in PvP is ridiculous. You need to have a rich friend and a lot of time or else it will be months before you're doing anything resembling tactical combat.

3. Say what you want, but to be successful in this game you have to be on it constantly, making fine adjustments to what your character is building in terms of skill. If you don't treat it as a job, you end up with a subpar character doing backwater shit. And this is WAAAAY more of a job than any other MMORPG I've ever seen, ever.

4. If you don't get the self-deprecation humor, I don't know what to tell you. Being a gamer has traditionally been an embarassing trait, it's only in the past few years that that has really started to change. To reference this in humor seems obvious to me. And unlike MMORPG gamers, regular gamers actually have substantial lives that they balance, typically. Saying that MMORPGers have to sacrifice a significant portion of their lives for tangible rewards is the pot calling the kettle...a kettle. Take note of the fact that most MMORPGers (at least in my experience) are either married or terminally single. That's not happenstance.

The fact that he isn't an MMORPGer is precisely why is review holds a measure of value. I think people who are too into the culture aren't always able to have a realistic perspective on games. EVE really isn't a game. It's way too job-like, far too much about who you know and what you've done with your time. That's rewarding to some people, but those people probably feel the same way about their careers.

1) Except for the fact that the game is actively advertised AS A GAME DESIGNED FOR CORPORATION+ LEVEL PLAY!!!

What part of that do you people not understand...

"The basic role-playing and space simulation aspects of EVE are really just the tip of the iceberg. When players band together to form factions and alliances, the game progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the game as the struggle for fame and fortune ebbs and flows with each new day in EVE."

 

[TaboriHK]

1) Except for the fact that the game is actively advertised AS A GAME DESIGNED FOR CORPORATION+ LEVEL PLAY!!!

What part of that do you people not understand...

"The basic role-playing and space simulation aspects of EVE are really just the tip of the iceberg. When players band together to form factions and alliances, the game progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the game as the struggle for fame and fortune ebbs and flows with each new day in EVE."

But that's the problem. You can't make a game off a tip. The tip sucks, and the iceberg is under impenetrably freezing water, to extend the metaphor. Last time I checked, working for a corporation was a REAL LIFE JOB. And certainly not fun. And you are pitching EVE as something way more exciting than it is. Here, let me describe my job the way you are describing EVE.

"Driving to work while listening to your favorite morning show in nice weather is just the tip of the iceberg at Nonofyourbusiness Corp. When coworkers band together to form teams and alliances, the job progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the job as the struggle for recognition and money ebbs and flows with each new day in Nonofyourbusiness Corp."

 

[StarSyth]

unlike the standard game an MMORPG holds its value. if you can play it for 4 years it to me is far better than a $50 buck one hour wonder. then again MMORPG have to keep you entertained in order for them to deem a monthly pricetag. Alot of the points made in this thread are comparisons. If your going to compare the two types of game style then ok. You have to remember that the game is ment to be played long term. Many players are 20 or older unlike what TaboriHK would like you to belive and play because they have real life commitments. The review was right in that respect, its made so you dont need to play it 24/7 training. In a month for example you unlock a ship that pwns face.

you can play every hour of that week and become a billionaire or you can play your 3hrs at the weekend and your still on level peggings with the mate you started playing with. Some will argue that they wish to be able to be better than others purely by the amount of time they invest, for them I would either suggest helping to run an alliance or playing wow. Also having ISK (cash) in this game allows you to do alot too, no point in being able to fly something without being able to fit this ship or buy one. Also you can gain great influence on alliances and corporations just like in the real world (but far easier).

FACT: I know a bookstore owner whom plays 2 or 3 hours a week. Hes 46, married, one of the best pvpers Ive met in game and buys and sells on the market making about 7 to 8billion a week for only 1hour of "work" (hauling and putting up buy orders).

finally, yes. The players of EvE tend to be the people who want more from a game, who dont want to die and respawn 1000 times or watch 12 years of cut scenes. They average player of EvE tends to be more intellectual, older, more computer savy that the average 360 or Ps3 gamer. You can argue all you wish and throw names left and right but at the end of the day EvE Online is a game for "real" gamers not the weekend warriors of Cod4 or TF2. For people that want to have a persistent world in which players control 99% of the gameplay. Where you can sit back and play other games or do other things without the pressure of falling behind and loosing your rank. EvE Gamers are unique.

 

[TaboriHK]

Many players are 20 or older unlike what TaboriHK would like you to belive and play because they have real life commitments. The review was right in that respect, its made so you dont need to play it 24/7 training. In a month for example you unlock a ship that pwns face.

finally, yes. The players of EvE tend to be the people who want more from a game, who dont want to die and respawn 1000 times or watch 12 years of cut scenes. They average player of EvE tends to be more intellectual, older, more computer savy that the average 360 or Ps3 gamer. You can argue all you wish and throw names left and right but at the end of the day EvE Online is a game for "real" gamers not the weekend warriors of Cod4 or TF2. For people that want to have a persistent world in which players control 99% of the gameplay. Where you can sit back and play other games or do other things without the pressure of falling behind and loosing your rank. EvE Gamers are unique.

I'm not sure how you extrapolated that I am suggesting every MMORPGer is underage. Unless you are suggesting that I think everyone gets married or becomes a social leper at 15.

And you can't chastise us for "name calling" but then claim yourself to be the only true gamer. That's like saying only obsessive compulsives truly 'commit' to anything.

 

[StarSyth]

also to point out again, being part of a PVP Corp ingame is nothing like work (unless your in the military or a hired gun)

Roaming around killing people with military precision as if you where fighter jet pilots or a battle fleet or warships is awesome, NO-ONE can say anything about eve's pvp until they have roamed in pvp.

 

[yourkie1921]

Nope, you really can do that.

Than I'm really sad my computer doesn't fit the requirements.

1. You join an MMORPG and don't play multiplayer? MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME?!?! by not joining a player corp, getting involved in gang/fleet warfare you basically ran around in COD4 without anyone one a server.

If COD4 had NPC's on server when no one else was on that would be a valid comparison. And if there were NPC's yahtzee could've still made a valid review.

2. You state that the games tactics are the same as any mmo, kick at each others shins. That tells me right there you only managed to shoot NPC ships. The games mechanics ARE very tactical, in a gang/fleet you will have tacklers to prevent others from fleeing combined with specialist ships to do various things such as prevent an enemy from locking others, draining their power, slowing movement. 1000's of different tactical setups, styles and maneuvers makes EvE the best game for a player versus player experience.

That sounds like it's only fun if you're the leader, or you're dominating. and by dominating I don't mean the way most people do, when you are winning and keep winning. I mean you took out 5 of their ships in 2 seconds.

3. Player corporations = an online job?. No my console loving friend, a corporation is a techy name for guild or clan.

they could be both at once