Zero Punctuation: Final Fantasy XIII

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Fordo

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Oct 17, 2007
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Velocity Eleven said:
does anybody else think that he just did this to have a go at the genre? I mean, he talked about the actual gameplay very little and almost every single one of his complaints were based off the stereotypes that all JRPG haters tend to have... and none of those complaints have ever made sense to me... (and respouting them doesnt make them sensical)
If I may,
Yahtz did point out that at one time he did like RPG's (FF6). Which I agree was the best RPG evar. Perhaps he did not talk much about gameplay because there isn't much to it. If you take out a lot of the exploration element in a FF game what can you do? Auto-fight is as effective as it is boring.

His points about generic, goofy, similar looking characters in EVERY FF since 7 I think should be well taken as well.

If f13 adds linear paths, more auto-fights, the same kind of players you've seen since 5 games ago, what do we do with our time besides read txt like a choose-your-own-adventure novel? Play with ability points?

I think yahtz's point is that it's been a long time since RPG's offered anything good. see KOTR1 vs 2.

meh, just my thoughts.
 

Rax

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Sep 9, 2009
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Whenever anyone asks why I don't like JRPG's I am going to point them in the direction of this review. Well said!

P.S. I think the only thing that would make me laugh harder is if you reviewed Twilight.
 

Zukonub

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Fordo said:
Velocity Eleven said:
does anybody else think that he just did this to have a go at the genre? I mean, he talked about the actual gameplay very little and almost every single one of his complaints were based off the stereotypes that all JRPG haters tend to have... and none of those complaints have ever made sense to me... (and respouting them doesnt make them sensical)
If I may,
Yahtz did point out that at one time he did like RPG's (FF6). Which I agree was the best RPG evar. Perhaps he did not talk much about gameplay because there isn't much to it. If you take out a lot of the exploration element in a FF game what can you do? Auto-fight is as effective as it is boring.

His points about generic, goofy, similar looking characters in EVERY FF since 7 I think should be well taken as well.

If f13 adds linear paths, more auto-fights, the same kind of players you've seen since 5 games ago, what do we do with our time besides read txt like a choose-your-own-adventure novel? Play with ability points?

I think yahtz's point is that it's been a long time since RPG's offered anything good. see KOTR1 vs 2.

meh, just my thoughts.
Well, that's debatable.... Auto-fights are optional (though you do only control the party leader), the characters are more deconstructions of what we've seen in recent FF games than anything, but the game is extraordinarily linear. However, if you turn your minimap off, which, I agree, you shouldn't HAVE to, it feels more like a PSX FF game than anything.
 

samuraixyz

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Jan 14, 2008
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jericu said:
I'm a big fan of Yahtzee, but this felt like a very unprofessional review. He admits that not only did he not finish the game, he only got 5 hours in and proclaimed it as ass, which is like taking a nibble off of a slice of cake and decreeing that the cake is disgusting. He can make all the arguments about how a game shouldn't have to take a long time to get good, but it doesn't make his decision to only play 5 hours any more valid. If it was taking him so long to get through the game then he should have A) Waited to review it until after he finished it and review a different game this week instead, like he did with Mass Effect 2, or B) Mark the review as a "First Impressions" like he did with The Witcher.
I agree with B as 5 hours rather unreasonable. If any, he stated his reasons why though you think he would have gone with A but seeing how he hates JRPGs, that should been an indication what motivation he had with FFXIII

In the end, he did pinpoint all the problems I had with this game which is mainly the linearity of it all so really the review says, "if you're unbiased and can play this game for 20 game hours of stop-and-go linearity and not doing much other than selecting the Auto-battle 90% of the time and switching between jobs via Paragram Shift to attack, heal, and repeat, you'll either get rid of it before the 20-hour mark or actually like it... then get rid of it." Because I'm sure not going to play this again; don't want to go through that 20-hour crap again.
 

Fordo

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Oct 17, 2007
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Do you really need to play a game for 5 hours before it gets good?

How long would you allow a book or movie be boring before you finally started deducting points?

Shouldn't a GOOD game be able to grab and hold your attention from the power on to off? Maybe I'm just leaving the demographic, but I can't credit a game as "amazing" if 5 hours of gametime is not enough to judge it.
 

JokerCrowe

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Nov 12, 2009
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Well, say what you want about Vanille, (god knows I have) but she's HAWT!

(Oh god! I felt my IQ dropping by about 20 points, when I spelled "hot" like that...)

Never played an Ff game, never will.
[sub][sub]Unless there's unlockable naked content... Yeah! I went there![/sub][/sub]
 

pedrnorth

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Mar 12, 2009
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I am very glad to hear that he liked Final Fantasy VI. That was the golden age for JRPGS, since then they've gone down the tubes. Ahhh, Chrono Trigger.
 

Mr.Lucifer

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Nov 1, 2009
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I am very glad to hear that he liked Final Fantasy VI. That was the golden age for JRPGS, since then they've gone down the tubes. Ahhh, Chrono Trigger.
Besides chronon trigger, FF, and dragon quest, there weren't any other significant jrpgs. What shin megami tensei?
 

duchaked

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Dec 25, 2008
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I don't see why he hates FFVII so much, considering that it was the games after it that started copying its story, trends, and story trends oh wait okay but still, I feel the "made by the fans" syndrome Yahtzee hates happened around FFVIII (and FFXIII is made by the fans of fans lol)

Angsty Spice, Serious Spice...hahahaha awesome
still I might give this game a try, but my gaming style seems to have changed dramatically as I've gotten older

but to y'all hating on him (I should because he hates the only FF game I like but whatever I'm not that immature)...well at least he gave it a chance lolll
problem is, not everyone has the money to give many games a chance...
 

gamepopper101

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Aug 12, 2009
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Unbiased, that's a laugh. You barely like Nintendo games, you hate games staring long lasting characters, you rarely review fighters, you almost always review a game with first person perspective. I give you credit for liking Final Fantasy VI back in the day, especially for a British person.
 

epikAXE

Save the planet: It has beer!
Oct 26, 2009
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Wow, Yahtzee didnt like a FF game. I really saw this coming, i mean, couldnt he have reviewed a game whitch we didnt know what he was going to say about it, like Just Cause 2? or another old game he actually gives a shit about.

Im not defending FFXIII here im just saying, this review wasnt really entertaining, because we already fucking knew what he was going to say about it anyway...

Well you cant stop the "OHMYGODZEROPUNCTUATIONISFUCKINGAWSOME,ILISTENTOEVERYTHINGTHATYAHTZEETELLSMECOSIMAFUCKINGROBOT" trolls so meh :/
 

Mr.Lucifer

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Nov 1, 2009
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Are you guys going to tell shitty taste for liking final fantasy 13, final fantasy in gereral, and JRPGS?
 

yanipheonu

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hitheremynameisbob said:
yanipheonu said:
Vestsao said:
FFXIII is the only FF game I've played and I really like it... My heart is broken and I shall now email YZ about how wrong he is and how he should reviewing games..
Which raises a great point. A lot of the nay saying is due to nostalgia. Most (actually likely all, even the linearity) of the elements people don't like have been done in FFs before.

I know it would be wonderful if FFXIII was the same as your favourite, but Square wants to make what they want.
How is the naysaying due to nostalgia if all the points of contention are elements from previous games? That makes no sense :p

And regardless, it's almost the default "covering my ears, I'm not listening!" argument of people defending an entry into an established series to suggest this. Not that it doesn't ever happen, but really LISTEN to the things people are saying about it. The complaint isn't "this game has some minor linearity", it's "this game is TOO linear." There's a big difference there. The argument is thus that the game is more linear than its predecessors, not just that it is linear. Previous games all - repeat, ALL let you freely explore the environment to a certain extent (and I'm just talking about "Numbered" Final Fantasy games here, not Tactics, etc...) from the get-go. Sure you didn't get access to the entire world right off the bat, but unlocking more and more of it as you progressed and obtained new vehicles, etc... was part of the fun of exploring. They mixed this up a bit with FFX and FFXII, but you still had the ability to backtrack, sidequest, and explore a little bit (moreso in XII). Thus, completely removing this freedom from the game is a big change.

And yes, change isn't necessarily a bad thing, but having played the game myself I can safely say that, to me, every single mechanic change they implemented is just terrible, and makes XIII far less fun than any of the previous titles in the series.

ShibuyaRiver said:
Again, this whole '20' hours thing has been blown out of the water as well.

The game is actually pretty fun and opens up within the first four hours. Jesus. Stop being sheep and listening to everything your internet celebs say.
Because nobody could possibly actually dislike something you like... How exactly does it "open up" in four hours? You for damned sure can't make it to Grand Pulse in that time, which is the 20 hour mark everyone else is referring to. You're probably just talking about the combat system fully unlocking, but I don't really care about that, since the whole system is **** as far as I'm concerned. The "opening up" bit people have been talking about is when the game stops forcing you to run down straight-line corridors punctuated on either end by cutscenes, and 20 hours is a pretty accurate guess on that.

The combat system is the least-involving, least-nuanced iteration that we've ever seen with the ATB. You only directly control one character, and even that is a tenuous claim, because most of the time you'll just be hitting the auto-battle button, since battles occur in real time and thus wasted seconds are truly wasted. You can issue your party general commands with the paradigms, but think of how simplified that has made things - your control over your entire party has been essentially whittled down to the same level of control you have over squadron-mates in flight combat games like HAWX or Ace Combat. "Attack, Defend, Support" has been expanded to include "attack with magic, debuff the enemy, and heal us", but it's still an incredibly basic, AI-reliant mechanic that ensures most of what you'll be doing in battles is watching from the sidelines, casually tapping one button again and again until you need to paradigm shift. It's all just BORING. At least with Gambits when the game played itself it did so based on the rules YOU set for it.
0_o Look back at the previous entries, it's not that different. The linearity as it is is extremly comperable to FF10.

In FF13 you have to go in on direction in order to get to the next plot point, and only later on can you truly explore, in Gran Pulse.

In FF10 you have to go in one direction in order to get to the next plot point, only later can you explore...

Well in FF7 it was a bit less linear. You had to go to specific place and only that one place in order to advance the plot, only later is there a place to explore... But hey there were towns!

That's not to say the FF series is devoid of exploration (although all start with some sort of restriction in travel), I'm just saying it's wrong to think this is the only "offender". Plenty of others have pulled it off. Clearly some people don't mind linearity.


Your opinion about the battle system is... wrong. In standard FF games, you'll be pressing attack, magic, defend, so on. Often when grinding, it will boil down to mashing A to attack over and over agian. Remakes of older FFs are starting to include auto-battle for this sake. YOu can switch it off in those games, and if it bothers you in 13, you can switch it from default.

I'm getting the feeling you haven't played that much. Later in the game, the battles get INTENSE. You'll be thankful you have auto-battle and only control one character, since you'll constantly need to switch in accordance to what is happening, more fun to me than selecting Cure or Attack manually.

To illustrate:

A standard FF battle

Attack
Haste
Attack
Attack
Attack
Cure
Attack
Firaga
Attack
Attack
Win

An FF13 battle

Attack Attack Attack Attack
Attack Attack Blitz
Paradigm Shift for healing
Ruin Ruin Attack Ruin
Paradigm Shift since everyone is low on health
Provoke Provoke Provoke *pressed triangle since you have enough aggro*
Mediguard Mediguard Mediguard *Triangle again, since everyone is healed*
Paradigm Shift for Full out attack
Attack Attack *stagger* Launch Smite
Win

At the very least, it's not that different, certainly not less-nuanced. I'd likely say more, these are probably some of the most involved battles in FF history.
 

spehizle

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Gotta say, congrats on the bar. I'm taking a year long sabbatical to Australia, and I'll defiantly swing by! Is ur place big or what?
 
Jan 23, 2009
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Yup. If its still crap after 5 hours I'm not going to bother. I'll just go learn a language or a musical instrument instead.
 

Beauwight

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Feb 15, 2010
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PayJ567 said:
Wow, Was I the only one to find this episode.....Alot worse than usual?

I mean if you've got a load of work to do with other stuff do that, take a week off from making this show or something.

Well what can I expect from free entertainment.
That's kind of how I felt. I mean I am an FFanboy, and I certainly didn't expect Yahtzee to love the game or even avoid piddling on it, but...how would he say it?...

You could have at least played the whole game you lazy fucking twat. Get your dick out of your mouth, stop licking your own asshole, have your spine replaced since you had to have it removed to get your huge mouth down to your taint in the first place and play the game.

...Yeah, that might sum it up.
 

Oskamunda

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Dec 26, 2008
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I have to agree with Yahtzee on this one, which kills me. This game is just bad. BUT, having only played five hours of it, with those five hours including datalog reading [which I gave up on two hours in], I don't think he really understands HOW bad the game is. There is literally no end to the breaking flaws in this game. I won't bother to list them here, seeing as that would be a waste of time AND since I'm not a game reviewer.

Let's just say this...FFXIII has three incongruous components to it:
1] Too many MMORPG elements [especially when a dedicated FFMMORPG is coming out later this year]
2] A proclivity to punish the gamer for just wanting to play the game [see above for primary concerns of this one]
3] Being veeeeeeeeeeery Japanese.

This things could actually stand alone from each other and still make for a fine game, but when you stick them together with modpodge the effect is really disquieting. When the developers give you a new game + option that lets you skip the entire first 30~60 hours of gameplay, it should be a clue that even THEY know it's shit [Don't tell me it's NOT just that, either. You don't even get your final crystarium level until you defeat the last boss, and you haven't unlocked ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS NEW.].

Anyway, I'm starting to go on about it, which was not my intent.

What I wish is that Yahtzee would finish playing the game and give us a second review, this time maybe more than five minutes flat, extolling the horrors that is poor game design coupled with a AAA-title-making franchise and fanboy rabies. It might be the only thing that makes me feel like the game was worth playing through.