Zero Punctuation: Mass Effect 3

[FallenMessiah88]

I think I'll wait for a "Game of the Year" version or a "Mass Effect Collection". That is, if that is ever gonna happen.

Yahtzee is a more valid authority on games than any cheeto-laden forum goer on this site. So if he says it could have been worse and maybe people are overreacting, I'm more inclined to believe that than some frothing man-child shouting "Aye wash lied two! DA nartive wash epic falez. Shivilishashun will nao collapse." He's not a bad journalist, he didn't overlook anything "all-important," and if you think you think you're disappointed because of his journalistic process which hasn't changed since 2009, it may just be possible that you're only upset he didn't take YOUR side. He took the middle ground, didn't address the controversy for more than a couple sentences. That's perfectly reasonable. This isn't in response to any comment in particular, more a pre-empt on all the ones sure to come. Don't hate on Yahtzee for this. Feel free to hate on me though, I'm really biased.

Just because Yahtzee has his own internet show doesn't mean that his opinion is worth more than anyone else's. As long as you can express your opinion in a civilised, well thought out manner, I don't really see what the problem is. I mean, isn't that exactly what Yahtzee has done? So what makes him so different from everyone else, except for the fact that he's famous.

Besides, there are good arguments on both sides of the debate and to simply dismiss every single one of them as "cheeto-laden man-children" is not only in poor taste, it's just simply untrue.

 

[Darkcerb]

All of this seems strange to me. Everyone is talking about the ending and not the game.

That's because the game is great, every reveiwer agrees.

Except yahtzee but we all know how biased against any sort of cover system he is, and we know he rushed through like he was being chased by a lion.

It's just the last ten minutes that fails miserably.

The rest of your post is so ironic it's not worth commenting on really. (In case it's not obvious enough that's because the rest of the game is so great, the story telling is above par for games...and then you get to the ending.)

 

[Invadergray]

Just because Yahtzee has his own internet show doesn't mean that his opinion is worth more than anyone else's. As long as you can express your opinion in a civilised, well thought out manner, I don't really see what the problem is. I mean, isn't that exactly what Yahtzee has done? So what makes him so different from everyone else, except for the fact that he's famous.

Besides, there are good arguments on both sides of the debate and to simply dismiss every single one of them as "cheeto-laden man-children" is not only in poor taste, it's just simply untrue.

I am not referring to everyone in disagreement, I'm referring to a specific type of person who can be found taking that position. Probably didn't make that distinction well enough. e.g. Someone like you with well-reasoned arguments and a respect for other people's opinion is not the type of person I would call a cheeto-laden man-child frothing at the mouth (you forgot that important last part).

As for your first point, Yahtzee's fame is not what gives him credibility. It's his past experience and exposure to games, the gaming industry, his status as an internet mogul (not his fame so much as his actual influence such as his ability to get developers to draw womanly pictures for him), as well as his connections in the gaming industry and the gaming community. It's called ethos and he has more of it than you or I do. His opinion IS more valid than ours because he knows more about what he's talking about.

Again, the comment was not about attacking one side of an argument, but more trying to mitigate undeserved ire on Yahtzee by people who had the wrong expectations, namely by redirecting it. Your response was not the one I was expecting and I wouldn't have felt the need to say what I said if everyone was as rational. If you still disagree I can respect that because you're doing it right. Now teach the rest of them

 

[Frankster]

Besides, there are good arguments on both sides of the debate and to simply dismiss every single one of them as "cheeto-laden man-children" is not only in poor taste, it's just simply untrue.

So what you're suggesting is that each side of this debate doesn't try to use strawmen arguments and portray the other side as entitled whiny manchildren/biodrones+corporate tools respectively?
And heck even try to understand each other's arguments?

And that we don't take the opinions of people with their own net shows and net articles as truths to be blindy followed?

You have dangerous ideas.

All of this seems strange to me. Everyone is talking about the ending and not the game. I haven't finished the game yet)

Maybe when you finish the game and reach the end all this won't seem so strange to you.

There's a hella lot of people thinking this way though "yeh i've only played the first half of the game and don't get why people say the game was awesome until the end", I honestly thought it was trolling at first but nope, way too many people are saying things like this.

 

[Hyperactiveman]

Bang, right in the fanboy vajayjay.

Bravo Yahtzee very right you are... no. 2 and 3 just killed all concept of being a planet surface exploring, biotic spamming, stat porn fulled, arse kicking bag of fun.

 

[Joccaren]

Wait, someone doing an Escapist article that doesn't paint the Mass Effect 3 protests as childish and stupid?
HOLY CRAP!

Er, didn't you hear him say "Are you sure not not upset about the ending because it IS an ending" (or word to that effect).

He has stated his opinion, and offered a counter argument (Which English Professionals have rebuffed already - it is an ending but not a conclusion). I will respect that. What I will not respect is when people go out of their way to make it sound stupid. I.E:
"but I still think the idea of demanding a new and "better" ending is ludicrous. I don't really have a stake in either side of this debate" http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116390-BioWare-Considering-Calls-for-New-Mass-Effect-3-Ending
"Congratulations, "Mass Effect" crybabies. You've officially set the entire medium back a DECADE as an art form" http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.355624-MovieBobs-thoughts-on-the-ME3-ending-controversy
"I want to point and laugh at the petition... Am I really going to have to throw a thumbs-up at something so patently ridiculous?... your demand for a Mass Effect 3 rewrite is beyond ludicrous" http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116315-Mass-Effect-3-Petition-Raises-Funds-For-Charity
and probably a couple more I could find if I looked. 'Ludicrous', 'Ridiculous', 'Crybabies', ect.
That I will not accept. Movie Bob's was on His Twitter I believe, so at least its not in an article here, but views such as this seem meant to offend those who legitimately oppose the Mass Effect 3 endings. Its not just saying 'I don't agree, and here's why/I'm not going to go into why', its saying 'I don't agree, and you guys are idiots for thinking this'. Its insulting and I personally expected better from here. The more recent articles from the Escapist don't have as much/any of this in them thankfully, however I have lost all respect for Movie Bob ATM. Unless he can come up with some damn good reasons to justify his position - and not just the 'its art' reason, as that is BS and rebutable in so many ways - I doubt I will actually listen to anything he says after this. He has gone out of his way to offend people, all because they don't share the same views as him. I can not respect that.

 

[AngleWyrm]

Mass Effect 3 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5497-Mass-Effect-3]

First there was that car that handled like a fridge on a roller skate ... I'm just gonna say it: I liked the fridge-rollerskate-car business in the first one, at least it made the galaxy seem like there were things in it besides linear arrangements of chest-high walls. Maybe people wouldn't have complained about it so much if they had given it a rocket jump or a big pair of truck nuts; removing it entirely smacked of giving up too easily.

Mass Effect 1 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/18-Mass-Effect]

Then there are the unavoidable driving sections, made frustrating by handling like a fat man on a unicycle.

Oh, how quickly we forget. But the internet remembers.

 

[Darkcerb]

You expected better from here? weird I expected worse. They were always going to side with the industry they've latched onto. The only people who might side with consumers is the penny arcade guys and they're conveniently split one on the industrys one on consumers one defending the artists perogative (hypocritical hogwash though it is, especially if you've seen the back lash to one of the writers bagging the ending and getting slammed for it) the other agreeing that it certainly was an end but no fitting conclusion.

In short don't be surprised when game reviewers take the side of the industry because it's far to close to shooting themselves in the foot otherwise.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

Just because Yahtzee has his own internet show doesn't mean that his opinion is worth more than anyone else's. As long as you can express your opinion in a civilised, well thought out manner, I don't really see what the problem is. I mean, isn't that exactly what Yahtzee has done? So what makes him so different from everyone else, except for the fact that he's famous.

Besides, there are good arguments on both sides of the debate and to simply dismiss every single one of them as "cheeto-laden man-children" is not only in poor taste, it's just simply untrue.

I am not referring to everyone in disagreement, I'm referring to a specific type of person who can be found taking that position. Probably didn't make that distinction well enough. e.g. Someone like you with well-reasoned arguments and a respect for other people's opinion is not the type of person I would call a cheeto-laden man-child frothing at the mouth (you forgot that important last part).

As for your first point, Yahtzee's fame is not what gives him credibility. It's his past experience and exposure to games, the gaming industry, his status as an internet mogul (not his fame so much as his actual influence such as his ability to get developers to draw womanly pictures for him), as well as his connections in the gaming industry and the gaming community. It's called ethos and he has more of it than you or I do. His opinion IS more valid than ours because he knows more about what he's talking about.

Again, the comment was not about attacking one side of an argument, but more trying to mitigate undeserved ire on Yahtzee by people who had the wrong expectations, namely by redirecting it. Your response was not the one I was expecting and I wouldn't have felt the need to say what I said if everyone was as rational. If you still disagree I can respect that because you're doing it right. Now teach the rest of them

So you were only talking about the more extreme sides of the argument? Well in that case I can surely understand your wording a lot better.

I agree that Yahtzee can definately be considered an authority on many things, even more so than you and i or many other people on this site. So I agree that when he has something to say about a given subject, one should definately listen, despite how much he may enjoy trolling his fans (or just fans in general).

However, I still think that ultimately, you should form your own opinion, rather than simply parroting others' opinions. Still, this is more in relation to things like judging whether a game is "good" or not. For example if I think a game is bad but Yahtzee think it is good, that does not mean that my opinion is suddenly invalid. It could mean that perhaps I should reconsider my stance, but that is about it.

And thanks for the compliment. You keep on doing what you are doing as well. You definitely have the right idea.

Besides, there are good arguments on both sides of the debate and to simply dismiss every single one of them as "cheeto-laden man-children" is not only in poor taste, it's just simply untrue.

So what you're suggesting is that each side of this debate doesn't try to use strawmen arguments and portray the other side as entitled whiny manchildren/biodrones+corporate tools respectively?
And heck even try to understand each other's arguments?

And that we don't take the opinions of people with their own net shows and net articles as truths to be blindy followed?

You have dangerous ideas.

No, that is not what I am suggesting. What I am suggesting is that that is not the only kind of arguments that can be found on either side of the debate.

 

[firas333]

Mass Effect 3 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5497-Mass-Effect-3]

First there was that car that handled like a fridge on a roller skate ... I'm just gonna say it: I liked the fridge-rollerskate-car business in the first one, at least it made the galaxy seem like there were things in it besides linear arrangements of chest-high walls. Maybe people wouldn't have complained about it so much if they had given it a rocket jump or a big pair of truck nuts; removing it entirely smacked of giving up too easily.

Mass Effect 1 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/18-Mass-Effect]

Then there are the unavoidable driving sections, made frustrating by handling like a fat man on a unicycle.

Oh, how quickly we forget. But the internet remembers.

I believe he meant that even though the Mako was terrible to drive, the concept of why it was there was great and gave ME1 exploratory feel, just that the handling was made in the crappiest way possible detracting how fun it could have been.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Thank you for putting in an inside joke for those of us who have sex.
Very funny.

Also, Police Academy had a third installment that was just as good as the previous installments but you have to keep in mind that the previous installments were still Police Academy movies.

 

[Vegosiux]

No mention of MP or Endingtron 3000 at all?

I wonder if he went for the "indifference is even worse criticism than outrage", in which case he pulled it off quite well.

 

[Shiro No Uma]

All of this seems strange to me. Everyone is talking about the ending and not the game.

That's because the game is great, every reveiwer agrees.

Except yahtzee but we all know how biased against any sort of cover system he is, and we know he rushed through like he was being chased by a lion.

It's just the last ten minutes that fails miserably.

The rest of your post is so ironic it's not worth commenting on really. (In case it's not obvious enough that's because the rest of the game is so great, the story telling is above par for games...and then you get to the ending.)

First: Yahtzee is a critic not a game reviewer. There is a distinction.
Second: I don't think you know what irony is. If you did then maybe the see how people can fail by not understanding what it is they have being experiencing. I just finished the game and It held up it's end of the bargain and then some. You could see where this was going for most of the game. That is unless it went over your head. I might be the only one, but I loved it.

 

[Darkcerb]

All of this seems strange to me. Everyone is talking about the ending and not the game.

That's because the game is great, every reveiwer agrees.

Except yahtzee but we all know how biased against any sort of cover system he is, and we know he rushed through like he was being chased by a lion.

It's just the last ten minutes that fails miserably.

The rest of your post is so ironic it's not worth commenting on really. (In case it's not obvious enough that's because the rest of the game is so great, the story telling is above par for games...and then you get to the ending.)

First: Yahtzee is a critic not a game reviewer. There is a distinction.
Second: I don't think you know what irony is. If you did then maybe the see how people can fail by not understanding what it is they have being experiencing. I just finished the game and It held up it's end of the bargain and then some. You could see where this was going for most of the game. That is unless it went over your head. I might be the only one, but I loved it.

First: grasping at straws a bit arn't we especially when yahtzee repeatedly refers to himself as both.
Second: It is ironic that you at first list the game's brilliant story as a defense of it's shit ending that you hadn't experienced.

And i knew it wouldn't be a happy star wars ending what I didn't know is it would be a deus ex machina, teleportation and characters behaving completely backwards riddled mess.

But hey if you liked it good for you, but don't put your monocle on and pretend it was anything but an incredibly ham fisted grasp at "artsy" that missed and hit "vague, plot hole ridden mess"

 

[Shiro No Uma]

All of this seems strange to me. Everyone is talking about the ending and not the game.

That's because the game is great, every reveiwer agrees.

Except yahtzee but we all know how biased against any sort of cover system he is, and we know he rushed through like he was being chased by a lion.

It's just the last ten minutes that fails miserably.

The rest of your post is so ironic it's not worth commenting on really. (In case it's not obvious enough that's because the rest of the game is so great, the story telling is above par for games...and then you get to the ending.)

First: Yahtzee is a critic not a game reviewer. There is a distinction.
Second: I don't think you know what irony is. If you did then maybe the see how people can fail by not understanding what it is they have being experiencing. I just finished the game and It held up it's end of the bargain and then some. You could see where this was going for most of the game. That is unless it went over your head. I might be the only one, but I loved it.

First: grasping at straws a bit arn't we especially when yahtzee repeatedly refers to himself as both.
Second: It is ironic that you at first list the game's brilliant story as a defense of it's shit ending that you hadn't experienced.

And i knew it wouldn't be a happy star wars ending what I didn't know is it would be a deus ex machina, teleportation and characters behaving completely backwards riddled mess.

But hey if you liked it good for you, but don't put your monocle on and pretend it was anything but an incredibly ham fisted grasp at "artsy" that missed and hit "vague, plot hole ridden mess"

You and he both can refer to yourselves as what ever you want, but refusing to play certain parts of games, i.e. multi-player, doesn't make you part game reviewer. Movie critics don't walk out half way through a film and then review it with a thumbs down because they don't know what happened. Kind of like admitting you played through a game really fast and missed all of the side quests because who cares about the story. Now I was about to get nasty now and say you have bad hair, but discussing this further over this forum might be good for the both of us. So instead I think you should actually read my original post, because the really irony is I never say anything about the games brilliant story while it has a bad ending. Again something has gone over your head because you weren't paying attention and you were giving it the story you want....is that ironic?

 

[Darkcerb]

Spoiler warning in case anyone here is thick enough to think the ending wasn't going to come up.

Please explain to all of us how the ending works. Because obviously things have gone over my head and only you have the answers.

I guess something must have gone over my head when shep suddenly becomes a completely apathetic puppet to a literal deus ex machina.

I guess when my crew teleport back to the normandy in time to run away just as fast as they could and are seemingly pleased with it and happy to be stranded on a planet in the middle of no where.

I guess I care about the victory fleet with the synthetics and organics working together that is now stranded and or dead (and completely ignored by ghost god child) via relay splosions.

I suppose I have trouble feeling like my heroic sacrifise has any meaning whatsoever when all the relays explode killing everything in a massive radius.

I find myself wondering why said deus ex machina didn't open the relay when soveriegn was perched erotically in the center of it's flower in ME1.

If you like it great but you're still pretending there's plenty of depth to be had when it's a deliberately vague mess obviously shat out at the final hour of development. Unless you prescribe to the inodoc theory which though explains the ending it certainly wasn't intended by bioware.

And though I agree I find it hilarious that yahtzee was whatever you wanted him to be to support your argument and now you're dropping him like a sack of bricks when it's not useful. Why don't you mention my grammar next, that's a good way to argue while not arguing too.

 

[Jabberwock King]

My primary point of disappointment was that there were no space combat sections, which is an utter shame considering the golden opportunity that the Mass Effect universe presents. I demand a talking plushie doll of Mordin to make up for this injustice.

 

[Shiro No Uma]

Spoiler warning in case anyone here is thick enough to think the ending wasn't going to come up.

Please explain to all of us how the ending works. Because obviously things have gone over my head and only you have the answers.

I guess something must have gone over my head when shep suddenly becomes a completely apathetic puppet to a literal deus ex machina.

I guess when my crew teleport back to the normandy in time to run away just as fast as they could and are seemingly pleased with it and happy to be stranded on a planet in the middle of no where.

I guess I care about the victory fleet with the synthetics and organics working together that is now stranded and or dead (and completely ignored by ghost god child) via relay splosions.

I suppose I have trouble feeling like my heroic sacrifise has any meaning whatsoever when all the relays explode killing everything in a massive radius.

I find myself wondering why said deus ex machina didn't open the relay when soveriegn was perched erotically in the center of it's flower in ME1.

If you like it great but you're still pretending there's plenty of depth to be had when it's a deliberately vague mess obviously shat out at the final hour of development. Unless you prescribe to the inodoc theory which though explains the ending it certainly wasn't intended by bioware.

And though I agree I find it hilarious that yahtzee was whatever you wanted him to be to support your argument and now you're dropping him like a sack of bricks when it's not useful. Why don't you mention my grammar next, that's a good way to argue while not arguing too.

What are you talking about? Your grammar is fine. Your ability to understand is not so great. My comment about the very entertaining Yahtzee is a separate thought then my questioning your poorly thought out attack about my first post. Your hypocritical "Put on your monocle" comment is exactly what you do in your reply to that post. I suggest that when you have nothing to say about someone posts you don't try to sound like you do by stating, "The rest of your post is so ironic it's not worth commenting on really. (In case it's not obvious enough that's because the rest of the game is so great, the story telling is above par for games...and then you get to the ending.)" Difference in opinion isn't irony Alanis.

 

[Darkcerb]

"Your hypocritical "Put on your monocle" comment is exactly what you do in your reply to that post"

"Again something has gone over your head because you weren't paying attention and you were giving it the story you want"

"That is unless it went over your head."

Right....

I notice you avoided actually responding to the majority of that post. I'm still waiting for your wisdom and enlightening interpretation of the ending.

 

[Sansha]

I love the balloon analogy. It was like Bioware was blowing up a huge balloon, exciting us up for the final bang, and then just... that.

But, I would totally put:

"Could have been worse."
- Yahtzee

... on my box art, alongside:

"Not quite as crap now."
- Yahtzee