Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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First, I know it's not Yahtzee. Of course it's the Escapist... should have made that more clear. I love his videos and his shorts, that's why I'm so damn disappointed to see more than 2 minutes of ads tacked onto the end.Geo Da Sponge said:
Secondly, I don't give a flying fuck which was out first. The first one that came to my mind was Heavenly Sword(S). Tt looks just like the gameplay except it's a dude. I just as easily said GoW but I've never played it, only seen gameplay footage. I thought the crap replacement was funny. So I included it.
Thirdly, I don't think there is a thirdly, because I don't think the rest applies to my post.
It's exactly as I feared.
Some people are so heavily influenced by modern passive media (TV, movies, music) that they expect video games to convey the same types of stories.
It's okay for a game to have a long story, and it's okay for that story to be full of japanese cultural convention (mechs, deus ex machina and the like). However, it is NOT okay for people to say that video games like this are the pinnacle of the medium, because then the point behind it all, interactivity, is lost. Video games represent an exciting new way to tell stories, but MGS4 doesn't really tap into that potential. At the end of the day, it's similar to a JRPG in that it's story -> gameplay -> story -> gameplay -> end.
The gameplay and cutscenes merge together beautifully in MGS4, so I'm not knocking on its presentation. Rather, I'm asking why there are cutscenes at all. They are passive. They are skippable story bits that don't enhance the gameplay, they only enhance each other. When a person says "The story made the game great for me.", what they're really saying is "That was a good book."
MGS4 is a good action game, and it's utterly beautiful. However, everthing in it has been done. Not this beautifully, but its been done.
Some of us want games to keep getting better. MGS4 does nothing for us.
Some people are so heavily influenced by modern passive media (TV, movies, music) that they expect video games to convey the same types of stories.
It's okay for a game to have a long story, and it's okay for that story to be full of japanese cultural convention (mechs, deus ex machina and the like). However, it is NOT okay for people to say that video games like this are the pinnacle of the medium, because then the point behind it all, interactivity, is lost. Video games represent an exciting new way to tell stories, but MGS4 doesn't really tap into that potential. At the end of the day, it's similar to a JRPG in that it's story -> gameplay -> story -> gameplay -> end.
The gameplay and cutscenes merge together beautifully in MGS4, so I'm not knocking on its presentation. Rather, I'm asking why there are cutscenes at all. They are passive. They are skippable story bits that don't enhance the gameplay, they only enhance each other. When a person says "The story made the game great for me.", what they're really saying is "That was a good book."
MGS4 is a good action game, and it's utterly beautiful. However, everthing in it has been done. Not this beautifully, but its been done.
Some of us want games to keep getting better. MGS4 does nothing for us.
Neither. He said that the story was complicated and that the writing was bad. Those are two separate assertions.Westwalker said:
If MGS4 is anything like MGS1-3, then he's absolutely bang on. MGS has a complex narrative, which appeals to some but not others; the dialogue, at least in my experience, has generally been pretty bad.
I've got MGS4 and I'm expecting to enjoy it -- I'm just calling a spade a spade.
Well maybe some people want their games to be more like books. It doesn't defeat the purpose of the media, it just happens to be a diffrent segment of it. Frankly I think more people would do well to start getting the patience to appreciate more story-oriented games, in fact I think in most any game the story is the KEY feature.drawthreecards said:
I have 733 Posts and I've never even been put on probation, it can't be that hard to avoid the banhammer. Usually they ban people for stupid things like posting "first" for no reason, or filling an entire post with random gibberish.Escapistmag=Nazis said:
Also, enjoy your second dance with said ban-hammer, I'm sure it'll hit like a ton of bricks very shortly.
Great review... basically everything I thought would be wrong with MGS4 (or at least could be better).
Now about the Ninja Gaiden 2 trailer, did they *really* use that fucking CCHHJJJJUUURRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!! scream you hear in every cheesy B-movie, shitty game, and horror movie trailer ever created??
Now about the Ninja Gaiden 2 trailer, did they *really* use that fucking CCHHJJJJUUURRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!! scream you hear in every cheesy B-movie, shitty game, and horror movie trailer ever created??
MSG was always good...bearly..the main problem with it is play control and the way they set it up, it feels like a cumbersome mess half the time.
The game industry is trying to hard to make media and not games IE well made,polished interactive entertainment play control,options for play control and button mapping are big issues no one is wanting to deal with.
The game industry is trying to hard to make media and not games IE well made,polished interactive entertainment play control,options for play control and button mapping are big issues no one is wanting to deal with.
Another excellent and articulate review MSG4 bored the pants of me, something I wish my girl friend would do more often. How about a dive in to the dark world of copyright infringement with a review of Limbo of the Lost?
I definately agreed with him on the fact that it takes aprox. half a second too long to aim, usually getting you shot first.
the Tranq Gun does run out of ammo though? but yea i agree about trailers being to long and could of used a trimming, also the snake otacon bit does almost cease to be gay when he has some 18 rated fun in the back of a chopper alothugh the sneeking suspision that otacon is gay does still remain
It seems to be a Western European/North American thing, the whole "remember children, there's no such thing as a close friendship between men, you're either emotionally distant, with the occasional punch in the arm, any emotion or closeness displayed and suddenly you're queerer than Elton John."
I've never bothered with the MGS series for several reasons. I read the back of the boxes and the plot gave me a migrane. It's way too complicated. Yes, it's good when games have a reasonable plot that can draw you in and give you enough motivation to actually care about what you do in the game as opposed to just playing because you like seeing heads flying in the opposite direction of their designated bodies. Thats not to say that super happy fun time murder is a BAD thing, it's just when that's my only motivation for slaughtering armies of poorly armed bad guys as well as their wives and small children I feel that the protagonist would be better off buying some ice cream and seeing a movie. But the MGS story is comicated enough to require several days of repeating it to yourself to understand, it manages to simultaneously tell you nothing of importance. It's like the worlds worst fanfic brought to life, rambling on and on with ridiculous plot twists and poorly developed ideas. I also was never into the whole mingling of stealth and macho shooting. I feel that games that try to juggle a bunch of different aspects while at the same time maintaining the FPS genre end up doing poorly all around. FPS's should stick to one or maybe two major concepts. Assasins Creed stuck to sneaking around and assasinating dudes, and it did well enough. Thief, as you might guess, stuck mostly to stealing shit. The only types of games that can mingle concepts without tripping up are RPGs, like Oblivion and Everquest and the like. But even then you tend to pick a few areas that you specialize in and stick to for most of the game. MGS ends up trying to be action heavy while simultaneously sticking in stealth elements that sort of threw me off when I played it. I didn't play the full game, I only played it at my friends house, so maybe I didn't get the full expereince. Of course, the main reason I never really played the games is because I have a deeply romantic relationship with Gordon Freeman and whenever I wander away from HL I feel insanely guilty and instantly return home to coo soft, loving reassurances to my computer while eviscerating combines.
Good grief, paragraphs are your friend man.
As for the review... I think the biggest draw for me to the MSG games is that they are unlike anything else I've ever played. That's where it surprises me how harsh this review is. Maybe because it's the 4th installment, and isn't fresh. I loved Okami, and Psychonauts, and No More Heroes for how unique they were. They took gaming someplace it had never gone. The MSG series does the same. It's a true interactive movie that you are playing... albeit an esoteric Japanese movie. Everything that comes out of Japan does require a plot interpreter.
I'm still trying to understand the story of the Ghost in the Shell series... but just because I didn't understand it all didn't make me like it any less. You don't have to be a fanboy to like MSG, just have a desire to play something different.
As for the gay bit... who would date a Japanese otako so freaky he built his own giant robot... or an aging guy, covered in scars, with the personality and voice of gravel? I'd expect them to be single.
As for the review... I think the biggest draw for me to the MSG games is that they are unlike anything else I've ever played. That's where it surprises me how harsh this review is. Maybe because it's the 4th installment, and isn't fresh. I loved Okami, and Psychonauts, and No More Heroes for how unique they were. They took gaming someplace it had never gone. The MSG series does the same. It's a true interactive movie that you are playing... albeit an esoteric Japanese movie. Everything that comes out of Japan does require a plot interpreter.
I'm still trying to understand the story of the Ghost in the Shell series... but just because I didn't understand it all didn't make me like it any less. You don't have to be a fanboy to like MSG, just have a desire to play something different.
As for the gay bit... who would date a Japanese otako so freaky he built his own giant robot... or an aging guy, covered in scars, with the personality and voice of gravel? I'd expect them to be single.
But the Silmarillion IS bad writing, for f***'s sake, get it into your skull. Just because YOU liked it doesn't mean it is good from ANY objective standpoint. And even though you like to ignore this, there ARE universally accepted guidelines for writing. You liking bad writing don't mean it's good, it just means you don't have a clue and wouldn't recognize bad writing if it made a naked handstand in front of you. And again: One has to differentiate between STORYLINE and STORYTELLING.TerraMGP said:
That's why Tolkien never intended it to be released in the form it was. The Silmarillion was a good story that was being told in a bad way. His son, however, thought otherwise. And it should tell you something if the friggin' AUTHOR thinks something ain't fit for release... It is finished storywise, but not storytelling-wise.