Zero Punctuation: Papers, Please and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

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Simca

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Feb 7, 2008
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Mooghens said:
ErinBeee said:
Warachia said:
ErinBeee said:
There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.
And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.
Actually, he made a joke about how a guy who sleeps with pre op trans girls is gay. Which is saying that pre op trans girls are men. Which is denying that a pre op trans girl is a girl.



Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?
To be fair, the definition of a male is that he A: Produces sperm, and B: Has a Y Chromosome. And until you can eliminate these two criterias from an individual, HE is by all accounts, a physiological male, no matter how much make-up.
And no don't send pics, this isn't craigslist goddammit.
Please don't pretend to be a forum scientist because you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Both of your criteria listed for being a male are wrong, both are wrong under the sex and gender definitions of 'male' and the first point is still wrong even by the genetic definition of the word 'male'.

That said, I doubt any trans individuals were offended at this. This is incredibly tame compared to the normal shit that they have to deal with.
 

CoronaryThrombosis

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Apr 15, 2009
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I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but the beta is still available on the developer's website if anyone wants to play the game but doesn't have $10.

Also, you can disable nudity in the game, FYI
 

Cottommy

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Aug 22, 2013
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If Ben saw these messages, it would probably make him physically ill to know how hard is "fanbase" can flip-flop from one offensive joke to another.
Just sayin'
 

wAriot

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Jan 18, 2013
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gjkbgt said:
Yes it might seem impossible to be straight and suck of pre-op transexuals but it is
Theoretically it may be, but I really really really really doubt there is ANYONE on the world that considers himself straight after sucking dick. Bisexual yes, but straight? Never have I known of anyone, online or in real life. Things are like this: if you find a (physical) man attractive, that means you may find others attractive too. What they identify themselves as in their minds do not matter. If you like sucking dick, you are gay, and that's it.

And whoever says that the body doesn't matter and that they won't find someone attractive for their body is a filthy liar and a hypocrite. You may not be attracted enough just with the physical appearance to start a relationship, but that's a different matter.
 

SecondPrize

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Mar 12, 2012
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gjkbgt said:
did i miss something i don't remember there being a tranny joke in this video?
I mean the no trannies sign in papers please maybe?
Well, there was a joke about a politician saying he's not gay because he only sucks off pre-op transexuals. Now, it would appear that many in this thread feel that that isn't gay at all because these are women and Yahtzee is forcing a gender identity upon them based strictly on their genitalia. The other camp, of which I am a part, feels that a guy sucking a dick is gay, no matter whom the penis may be attached to, and therefore the politician is a hypocrite. It's all very confusing but now tumblr is involved and they're always good for reasoned debate and many jokes.
 

Miroluck

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Jun 5, 2013
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Simca said:
Mooghens said:
ErinBeee said:
Warachia said:
ErinBeee said:
There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.
And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.
Actually, he made a joke about how a guy who sleeps with pre op trans girls is gay. Which is saying that pre op trans girls are men. Which is denying that a pre op trans girl is a girl.



Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?
To be fair, the definition of a male is that he A: Produces sperm, and B: Has a Y Chromosome. And until you can eliminate these two criterias from an individual, HE is by all accounts, a physiological male, no matter how much make-up.
And no don't send pics, this isn't craigslist goddammit.
Please don't pretend to be a forum scientist because you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Both of your criteria listed for being a male are wrong, both are wrong under the sex and gender definitions of 'male' and the first point is still wrong even by the genetic definition of the word 'male'.
What definition is right, then? One that has been put out by a scientist who was hand-picked and approved by t?
 

Warachia

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Aug 11, 2009
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Father Time said:
Warachia said:
To be fair, Penny Arcade somewhat brought that upon themselves by replying in one of the worst possible ways, namely addressing the subject seriously, then mocking it, they might have quieted things down a little if they didn't end it with: "if you are a rapist, then go forth and rape no more!"
I didn't have a problem with them mocking the idea that this comic might lead to rape in a weird nebulous we-swear-this-isn't-violent-comics-cause-violence kind of way.

I just assumed anyone angry at that response must've been angry at the original comic.

Edit: Maybe I'm just used to that kind of rebuttal (serious rebuttals + mockery) because I'm a fan of Penn and Teller Bullshit.
I didn't mind the comic, I found the response stupid, partially because it was so dismissive of a real life issue, and partially because it was the internet equivalent of kicking a hornets nest, then they never stopped, they even started making merchandise even just to keep offending the people who didn't like it to begin with.
 

gjkbgt

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May 5, 2013
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Warachia said:
I can't understand the stance of your post, so I'll address what I can, it was a joke, it had all of the qualities of a joke, it wasn't said just randomly, and I don't understand your stance on the comment section (I'm guessing you don't like that people are defending him).
If you don't understand my stance either ask me to clarify or ignore

My stance is this that it wan't a joke and if it was the implication wouldn't be tyrannies fucking is gay. it would be the opposite

as for the board

"gay" is a label
"gender" is a label

labels are by definitions simplifications
people here are arguing that "calling people gay because they suck of pre-op Transexuals is a simplification"
Is possibly the stupidest thing in the know universe

also if you are fucking a pre op tyranny you may not be gay but you are somewhere in the LGBT spectrum
 

Warachia

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Aug 11, 2009
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Simca said:
Mooghens said:
ErinBeee said:
Warachia said:
ErinBeee said:
There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.
And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.
Actually, he made a joke about how a guy who sleeps with pre op trans girls is gay. Which is saying that pre op trans girls are men. Which is denying that a pre op trans girl is a girl.



Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?
To be fair, the definition of a male is that he A: Produces sperm, and B: Has a Y Chromosome. And until you can eliminate these two criterias from an individual, HE is by all accounts, a physiological male, no matter how much make-up.
And no don't send pics, this isn't craigslist goddammit.
Please don't pretend to be a forum scientist because you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Both of your criteria listed for being a male are wrong, both are wrong under the sex and gender definitions of 'male' and the first point is still wrong even by the genetic definition of the word 'male'.

That said, I doubt any trans individuals were offended at this. This is incredibly tame compared to the normal shit that they have to deal with.
"How strange, this woman has and was born with a Y chromosone." - Said by no scientist ever.
They aren't wrong, if you want to say that they are you are going to need to point out how, and if you can, you're going to need to post the correct criteria.
 

Muspelheim

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Apr 7, 2011
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Cottommy said:
If Ben saw these messages, it would probably make him physically ill to know how hard is "fanbase" can flip-flop from one offensive joke to another.
Just sayin'
I doubt he does read the comments on his videos, though. And hell, this isn't anything new. I believe Yatzhee was a bigoted racist against whites a few months or so back.
 

wAriot

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Jan 18, 2013
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Father Time said:
I was going to make a wise-ass comment about how it probably wouldn't to the blind, then I thought about it and yeah a straight blind man probably wouldn't to suck dick. Maybe they don't care about ugly women but they can certainly tell the difference between genitalia from touch.
Oh, blind people can certainly find others physically attractive or not. In fact, some of the few I know are even more scrupulous than your average person, I really don't know why. In any case, the touch is a great sense to know how someone's appearance is. Or so I'm told.

Muspelheim said:
I believe Yatzhee was a bigoted racist against whites a few months or so back.
inb4 you can't be racist against whites
 

Warachia

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Aug 11, 2009
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gjkbgt said:
Warachia said:
I can't understand the stance of your post, so I'll address what I can, it was a joke, it had all of the qualities of a joke, it wasn't said just randomly, and I don't understand your stance on the comment section (I'm guessing you don't like that people are defending him).
If you don't understand my stance either ask me to clarify or ignore

My stance is this that it wan't a joke and if it was the implication wouldn't be tyrannies fucking is gay. it would be the opposite

as for the board

"gay" is a label
"gender" is a label

labels are by definitions simplifications
people here are arguing that "calling people gay because they suck of pre-op Transexuals is a simplification"
Is possibly the stupidest thing in the know universe

also if you are fucking a pre op tyranny you may not be gay but you are somewhere in the LGBT spectrum
If you are a man giving another man a blowjob then society counts you as gay, regardless of how you mentally view yourself (which is how society sees it). That's all there is to it, that's all there is to this forum, and that's all there is to the joke, is there anything wrong with being a transsexual? No, is there anything wrong with being gay? No.

You say that these are labels as if that's a bad thing, it's not, society needs labels to function, you are going to be labelled whether you like it or not, now whether or not you are going to change that label (like getting a sex change) is a different matter entirely, so is how you view that label, but the truth, is that you are never going to remove or lose that label.
 

Demandred20

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Apr 13, 2013
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Well as they say "any fool can go through life making everyone happy, its when you make enemies you know you are doing something right".

Excellent show Yahtzee, had me laughing straight through the last bit.
 

Muspelheim

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Apr 7, 2011
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wAriot said:
Muspelheim said:
I believe Yatzhee was a bigoted racist against whites a few months or so back.
inb4 you can't be racist against whites
ZP comment fields does tend to become a sort of gladiator arena battle between Hurt Progressives & Equally Hurt Reactionaries, don't they?

One ought to open a little popcorn and snack tent.
 

Warachia

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Aug 11, 2009
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Father Time said:
What real life issue? They were addressing the people who had a problem with this comic. Yes they were simplifying and/or exaggerating their claims, and I can understand people not liking that, but them claiming the comic would cause bad thing is a claim with absolutely no meat to it.
The real life issue is actual rape, the quote being "If you are a rapist then go forth and rape no more!" I can see they certainly weren't being very serious with that, which is why I had a problem with it, did I have enough of a problem that I needed to make an account and post about it? No, but the response served only to further alienate and enrage the people who didn't like the comic to begin with.
Warachia said:
they even started making merchandise even just to keep offending the people who didn't like it to begin with.
Yeah it didn't help but at that point it was way past the point of ending this without being hostile. I totally understand why they did it, but it wasn't going to help anything.
They could have dropped the issue and moved on, the reason I didn't like that was not only were they were deliberately being assholes at that point, they were also beating a dead horse.
 

Warachia

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Aug 11, 2009
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Father Time said:
Warachia said:
They could have dropped the issue and moved on, the reason I didn't like that was not only were they were deliberately being assholes at that point, they were also beating a dead horse.
Are we talking about the second comic or the merchandise now?
They could have dropped it at any time, they could have chosen not to make the response, if they did people would have moved on and eventually forgotten about it, they could have chosen not to make the merchandise, people would have seen the response as a bad way to reply, and moved on, when they started merchandising is when they were beating a dead horse, bringing an issue back again and again and again will never make it better.