Zero Punctuation: Syndicate

[Atmos Duality]

Fallout didn't manage the transition to first person without flak.
In fact, it weathered a shitstorm before it got released.
It managed to stick to its roots and was good enough to endear most of Fallout 1 and 2's fanbase.
Besides, it's not a generic FPS; it's still an RPG, only with guns and in first person perspective.

See, I never played the old Fallout titles, apart from a multiplayer spawn of Fallout Tactics at a LAN. I never had that pre-existing bias, so perhaps I just dodged a great deal of that flak by happenstance, because it wasn't NEARLY as intense as the rage and bile slung at Syndicate and X-COM.

Ironically, I was filled with rancor AFTER I played Fallout 3, not before.
Honestly, I never bought the "It's an RPG with guns, not a shooter" argument at all, though that goes beyond the scope of this topic just a bit.

Probably because Fallout clearly isn't an FPS, but an RPG. An RPG that is in First person and where you shoot things yes, but that is not really the definition of an FPS now is it?
The change in perspective didn't really fundamentally change why people played fallout that much.

Fact is, most conflict is going to involve firearms, and you fight/act from the first person perspective. That's the definition of first-person-shooter. Now, whether you think FO3 is mostly a shooter or not, well, that's subjective (barely; it's nearly impossible to avoid the shooter elements without going out of your way, and VATS was implemented in a rather clunky manner towards that end).

However, it's safe to assume that Fallout 3 will at least appeal to shooter fans, which is good-enough for the sake of this topic and my point of discussion.

Syndicate gets shit because people expected it to be another it to be another victim of FPSitis.
And they were right.
All that made Sydicate good was completely scrapped.

And X-COM is getting shit because the game looks like yet another victim of FPSitis.

Why developers take old and loved games and then rape them is beyond me.

It's the PUBLISHER who makes that decision. They're the people who buy up and own the actual Intellectual Property in the game business world, and they decide what sort of game gets made.

"Hey guys, let's make a sequel to Freelancer! And let's remove the space stuff and make it an FPS!"

The sad thing? As sarcastic and silly as that's meant to sound, I could honestly see someone pitching that idea at a shareholder meeting without a hint of irony.

 

[Atmos Duality]

DOUBLE POST: For Readability. Don't hate.

I guess they just got off easier because Fallout turned out to be a pretty good game, and Syndicate was just as you said, a bland forgettable mess. Unfortunate timing as well, since Deus Ex actually managed to live up to some expectations, and is also kind of a modern entry of a classic, that just does the cyberpunk action/FPS that much better.

While DX:HR isn't without its faults, it's mostly a great game and well-received.
And I'm pretty sure that EA intended their Syndicate project to coincide with the boost in popularity DX:HR was going to bring to the cyberpunk genre. It was probably a gamble, but a good one.

If anything, this would be around the safest time to launch Syndicate (or any other cyberpunk shooter); they're not competing with the Christmas Blitz (CoD4.4, Skyrim, etc), yet the demand for cyberpunk is likely still there.

I don't even want to look up news about X-com. I just hope that this FPS remake will die off eventually, and they'll make remakes at least closer to the genre of the games they were originally. I'm going to get the new Jagged Alliance when the price drops a bit, fingers crossed they at least kept the atmosphere in that.

I'm guessing it won't die off. But looking on the bright side, the Squad-based tactics X-COM game getting made looks EXACTLY like what a modern imagining of an X-COM should. Modernized graphics, cleaner presentation, yet it's keeping the core elements alive, rather than discarding them entirely like how Syndicate did.

Of course, the X-COM shooter is still green-lit, but being pushed back to make way for the fore-mentioned tactics game first. Do with that what you will.

Incidentally, Firaxis released a new video for the tactics game called "Deep Dive". There's an article with the video right here on The Escapist.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.353287-XCom-Deep-Dive-Reveals-Deep-Tactics-and-Snazzy-Eye-Candy#14020012

 

[daxterx2005]

People still buy EA games?
color me surprised

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

It's too bad that people have to purchase their "sightseeing tours" in order to find out the tour sucks and then they can't demand their money back from the developers or the publisher, and the publishers want to end used game sales so you have no way to get rid of the drek you just purchased. Especially since the whole industry is geared towards day 1 sales with their hype machines, and DLC "if" the game does good enough to warrent it (in most cases said DLC was cut content from the get-go, so if the game does poorly, you are stuck with an unfinished game)...

Boy isn't the games industry great!

 

[Warforger]

People still buy EA games?
color me surprised

Yah I know after Battlefield 3, Stars Wars the Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 you'd think people would stop buying games by EA.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I said FPS, not beat-'em-up.

Still... ... uhh... I... uhh........

....

Yeah; I got nothing!

Yeah, I saw you said FPS, just thought I'd bring that to your attention anyway. If those damn ponies can make their way into a fan-made fighting game, they can make their way into an FPS. I'm depressed now.

 

[I.Muir]

It seemed worth the $25 or so I payed for it
Also never played the original so had no expectations to be crushed

 

[imperialus]

Well at least Wasteland 2 is sitting at 1.1 million dollars in kickstarter money.

Seriously though, I think that (in my little world at least) 2012 is really going to be a banner year for indy games recreating old genres. Double Fine is doing their thing, Xenonauts has the X-Com banner waving around, Wasteland 2 has already hit its funding goal, Starfarer seems to be coming pretty darn close to scratching my StarControl 2 itch. All I really need now is for someone to do a Freespace 2 or Tie Fighter re-imagining.

 

[Mahoshonen]

People still buy EA games?
color me surprised

Yah I know after Battlefield 3, Stars Wars the Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 you'd think people would stop buying games by EA.

I think the most wonderful thing about this post is I have no clue whether your being serious or sarcastic.

And I'm perfectly okay with that.

 

[Eiv]

Love the London riots reference

What? Where? When? I'M CONFUSED RAARGH!!

(Seriously, I couldn't find anywhere. Some direction would be appreciated)

Around about 4:40. Think more of the day after the riots when boris got back

 

[synthesis]

Yeah it's not a remake of the original syndicate anymore than Ocarina of time is a remake of the original zelda for nes, retardedness aside...

It's a FPS game that takes place in the same universe as low and behold the original syndicate game, does not = remake.

Yatzuh' seems more and more ignorant to the point of me wondering if he actually bothered to play the game(s), he just looked at a trailorz' and pulled some crap out of his arse, ofc we can't force a person to play a game he/she/it does not like, but don't bother to review it later.

the last 5 "can't call em reviews" made me facepalm at all the things he got wrong, he would probably describe Lara croft as a blone space explorer fighting the daleks with her trusty sidekick clank.

 

[DanDeFool]

I like the part around five minutes where he describes the two groups who might be interested in this title.

It's spot on. I'm part of the latter "setting the publisher's office on fire" group. I expect a re-imaging of a game to improve it, flesh it out, etc. Not dumb it down.

The people in the former "too young to remember it" group won't give a damn about any of that, so EA might as well just give it another name that doesn't involve any licensing issues.

I'm glad the X-Com shooter got pushed back and (hopefully) replaced with a more appropriate remake. If they go ahead with the shooter in the long run, they should ditch all the X-Com references. A clean slate would give them more creative freedom in the shooter, and avoid angering those of us who remember the old strategic game. Heck, if it works out under it's own franchise, that's another franchise for gamers to enjoy, and the publisher to sell.

Why can't more re-imagings be like Battlezone (1998) or Battlezone II? (problems with bugs and forward compatibility aside)

Sad and true. But if you think about it, there wasn't any reason to expect anything else. Since the PC exclusive is dead, and it'd be nigh on impossible to replicate old school Syndicate's gameplay on the home console, another bloody FPS is about all they could do with the property.

Besides, it's not like the transition to FPS didn't work for Fallout, right? It's just too bad EA didn't follow Fallout's example of maintaining the depth and complexity of the original.

If you were in front of me I would punch you right now. Fallout 3 was about a freaking teenager 'saving' the wasteland (aka 50 people and a cow in some ruins) by making a water purifier downstream that doesn't actually change anything. Freaking vampires, fvcked up lore. . no choices/consequences or good characters or anything good from the originals. And the writing. . oh god. [intelligence] So you fight the good fight with your voice? I repeat exactly what you said so I'm smart?

To be honest, I've never played any of the Fallout games, so I was probably talking out of my ass there. I was mostly just going by Fallout 3's popularity and its positive reviews. I just assumed the fans of the original were at least tolerating it.

That said, I find it curious how you're more squeamish about spelling out the word "fucked" than you are about threatening to punch me. Not that I took it seriously, but come on, dude. Get your moral priorities in order.

 

[Kirbys]

Deus Ex was pretty good to look at dealing with lighting. Syndicate was annoying because there were some god awful lighting issues in the game so I had to restart to the checkpoint if I missed anything and I did all thanks to it! And god so much flare!

 

[Buizel91]

I loved the Beatles joke...Hilarious! :')

Great video as always Yahtzee!

 

[Blackpapa]

Hmm. Random thoughts.

When Fallout gets remade into a shooter, it's accepted with blind fan glee, accolades and awards (to some small amount of polarizing controversy).

By all but the glittering gems of hatred, of course. How I love that expression.

That being said F3, while lobotomized, sedated and generally catatonic still remained more or less an RPG. And don't forget New Vegas.

When X-COM gets remade into a shooter, it's rebuked by a chorus of hate so strong that it forced 2k to give Firaxis the task of making a much more awesome looking game.

Forced? Please.

The developers and designers aren't the people making the decisions anymore.

When Syndicate gets remade into a shooter, it's accompanied by another chorus of hate, said hate is ignored, and nobody is surprised when it turns out to be a bland forgettable mess that virtually nobody likes or wants.

What a shock.

Now we just have to see how the X-COM games turn out.

You're asking as if you had any reasonable doubt as to what the answer will be. At best it will play like a simplified X-COM: Enemy Unknown prototype/prequel with high-poly graphics and a modern interface. At worst it will be a sub-par tactical game without substance crushed under the misguided demands of a clueless publisher.