Zero Punctuation: The Conduit

[144_v1legacy]

Fix'd.

So I see it's getting hard to argue with me without reading, and so you've resorted to lying? At the risk of sounding too competitive, I believe I'm winning this conversation.

 

[144_v1legacy]

Thank god that drama train came to a stop. Pseudo-intellectuals going at each other's throats is just as bad as any "troll".

More to the topic. It still amuses and, at the same time, disappoints me to see everyone up in arms about Sarah Palin. Overdone? Late? He did one or two sight gags and carried on. That isn't even beating a dead horse. If he thrown in more? Sure, I'd be all for "wtf more Sarah Palin jokes" but it wasn't even that significant to the entirety of the review. So relax. Stop trying to dig for ways to insult the guy.

We probably are worse than trolls, aren't we? Sorry to the rest of everyone. I feel like a terrible person for that much, at least, but for some reason, I can't stop. But at least you can rest easy knowing that you're COMPLETELY and TOTALLY CORRECT!

And on topic again, I feel that as long as Palin feels she needs to make a fool of herself, everyone has the right, no, the responsibility to make fun of her at the drop of a hat.

 

[jak1165]

I guess all the "hardcore gamers" in this thread are angry that the "kiddy" system with all the shovelware outsells their precious PS3s and 360s combined by like 8-to-1

Toilets outsell washing and dryer combos but I'm not going to put my laundry in one.

To clarify, apples and oranges. The Wii is not a gaming system. You can't compare it to gaming systems in the same way you can't compare toilets to washer/dryer combos.

Thanks for clarifying your idiotic statement. Despite your nonsensical objections, the Wii is a gaming system. Maybe you can't jack off to its pretty graphics, but it sure as hell isn't a toaster

 

[Cryo84R]

I guess all the "hardcore gamers" in this thread are angry that the "kiddy" system with all the shovelware outsells their precious PS3s and 360s combined by like 8-to-1

Toilets outsell washing and dryer combos but I'm not going to put my laundry in one.

To clarify, apples and oranges. The Wii is not a gaming system. You can't compare it to gaming systems in the same way you can't compare toilets to washer/dryer combos.

Thanks for clarifying your idiotic statement. Despite your nonsensical objections, the Wii is a gaming system. Maybe you can't jack off to its pretty graphics, but it sure as hell isn't a toaster

It's not a gaming system, and now I'm half tempted to buy one and make it capable of handling one piece of bread to toast.

 

[Ralgarog]

I just spent 20 minutes typing up something that makes sense, but this site decided to log me out and it's coded so that you lose your message if you were logged out as you hit post.

Allow me to paraphrase.

Game does look like a 360 game on my SDTV (Looks like shit on my friend's 52").
What you said about the controls is stupid because they can be adjusted in under 10 seconds.

I have not played my wii in 6 months because most of the games on suck, however this was a good mindless shooter.

You don't have to amplify flaws and intentionally overlook fixes to your mistakes in order to make something seem bad.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I guess all the "hardcore gamers" in this thread are angry that the "kiddy" system with all the shovelware outsells their precious PS3s and 360s combined by like 8-to-1

Toilets outsell washing and dryer combos but I'm not going to put my laundry in one.

To clarify, apples and oranges. The Wii is not a gaming system. You can't compare it to gaming systems in the same way you can't compare toilets to washer/dryer combos.

Thanks for clarifying your idiotic statement. Despite your nonsensical objections, the Wii is a gaming system. Maybe you can't jack off to its pretty graphics, but it sure as hell isn't a toaster

The difference between the Nintendo Wii, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 is the latter two are for hardcore gamers who spent a vast majority of their time playing video games, whereas the Wii is geared toward a causal gaming market. A causal audience will always be a primary for a better financial overall because it attracts a much border prospect of people. Another reason for Wii's success is admittedly Microsoft and Sony's own stupidity. The former released a broken system that effective burned itself to death within a month, while the latter was a gargantuan overpriced paperweight until recently; although with no BC now, it is yet another example of Sony's idiocy this gen.

Nevertheless in the last year with the exception of one major title I can recall, Nintendo has released jack all in comparison with Sony and Mircosoft gushing out numerous stellar titles. The quality of gaming is superior on the better designed hardcore systems. In the end The Conduit's developers made a bold statement in claiming their little gimmick technology would be able to compete with 360 and PS3's grapical output and failed miserably as The Conduit cannot even comprehend the visuals displayed by rival titles. Thus it was likely a marketing ploy, if nothing else, hence the harsh reviews.

 

[flaming_squirrel]

The difference between the Nintendo Wii, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 is the latter two are for hardcore gamers who spent a vast majority of their time playing video games, whereas the Wii is geared toward a causal gaming market.

You're making everything far too black or white there, it's not as simple as 'Xbox 360 owners are all hardcore gamers, Wii owners play for 5 minutes per day, no more', I'll agree that the Wii's target audience are primarily the easily entertained people who enjoy flailing widly at their tv with a plastic gimmick (see: casuals), but many people who buy into Microsoft/Sony do so for the standard controller setup and style of the games rather then wanting to play 24/7.

Nevertheless in the last year with the exception of one major title I can recall, Nintendo has released jack all in comparison with Sony and Mircosoft gushing out numerous stellar titles.

That's because they're far too busy working on Super Mario world #3498 and Zelda: Trip to the moon.

 

[flaming_squirrel]

I just spent 20 minutes typing up something that makes sense, but this site decided to log me out and it's coded so that you lose your message if you were logged out as you hit post.

Allow me to paraphrase.

Game does look like a 360 game on my SDTV (Looks like shit on my friend's 52").
What you said about the controls is stupid because they can be adjusted in under 10 seconds.

I have not played my wii in 6 months because most of the games on suck, however this was a good mindless shooter.

You don't have to amplify flaws and intentionally overlook fixes to your mistakes in order to make something seem bad.

So you need to fix the broken control system yourself and have a fancy Tv in order for it not to look total shit, makes sense.

 

[DrDeath3191]

I just spent 20 minutes typing up something that makes sense, but this site decided to log me out and it's coded so that you lose your message if you were logged out as you hit post.

Allow me to paraphrase.

Game does look like a 360 game on my SDTV (Looks like shit on my friend's 52").
What you said about the controls is stupid because they can be adjusted in under 10 seconds.

I have not played my wii in 6 months because most of the games on suck, however this was a good mindless shooter.

You don't have to amplify flaws and intentionally overlook fixes to your mistakes in order to make something seem bad.

So you need to fix the broken control system yourself and have a fancy Tv in order for it not to look total shit, makes sense.

I wouldn't call it 'fixing broken controls' so much as adjusting them to your preference: for some, the default setting is great. For others, like yourself obviously, they are not. The game gives you the option to adjust them to fit your playstyle. No two people are the same, so it's good that the company allows the level of customization it does. The default control schemes aren't 'broken'; they're merely ideas that the company had for you to improve upon.
Also, I'd hardly call an SD TV 'fancy'.

 

[ash.bishop]

I actually knew all of Yahtzee's obscure references. And I loved the Tex Murphy games! They were butt-ugly but still fun. Pandora's Box was my favorite?at least until the game made my computer crash.

 

[holyassassian]

but...but.. ign said it had the best controls of any console shooter! Seriously, playing this game reminded me of goldeneye...but not in a good way.

 

[Tiakinz]

Hey, all you guys going on about how you can adjust the controls and all that?

Let's put it this way, I shouldn't /have/ to adjust them just so I can look up, down or what have you. It's just good game design to make that the /default/ rather than a customization.

Kthx.

PS. Wii fanwhores: Hush now, no one's really listening to you anyway. <3

It's true, for the most part, that adjusting controls should really be for slight tweaking, and shouldn't be something that make the difference between being able to and not being able to turn or look up. But the sheer number of posts in response to the defending of the wii shows that those defending are, obviously, being listened to. It also leads me to believe that Yahtzee is enough in the minority in his dislike of the wii that it's really more of a bias on his part than an impartial observation. I wonder, though, whether Yahtzee's opinion of the wii would have changed if the conduit was good...

A few things - The Wii *isn't* a good system. It has a few games that are good(oh oh, FOR THE WII), and a few that are faintly amusing at best when you're shitfaced off your knackers and don't know any better anyway.

Second- Most of what I saw in regards to wiiwhores was either open mockery of them, or telling them they're wrong. If they were being /listened/ to, opinion would shift to match their own.

Call it semantics if you will, don't bother me none. <3

I'm surprised you're so quick to be such an obvious troll after only two posts. I wonder if you've been banned for something? Not that you'd admit it if it were true, so you'd be hard pressed to convince me to believe otherwise.

Your steadfast hatred of the Wii implies that you probably don't know enough about it to really have a decent trustworthy opinion, in much the same way I haven't ever played halo, and can therefore say nothing as to its merits or faults. However, what I can say is what statistics say, and statistics say that more people have a wii. What I can also say is that the Wii does not have a very strong lineup of games for someone who plays them quickly and constantly. For someone with a life outside of gaming, say, a person with a job (me in the summer) or a person in college (me otherwise) this generally isn't the case. For us, there are enough genuinely amazing games (not just my own opinion, but the shared opinion of friends, acquaintances, and, more importantly, many critics alike) to last plenty long enough, and they're piling up even, waiting to be played, and I want to play them all. Furthermore, graphics aren't entirely controlled by a system. As was shown by a variety of games on all systems, it's really the developers that have the most control of how the graphics on any given console can be made to look their best. And graphics are really generally not enough of an issue to be bothered by, unless they're particularly noticeably bad. And no, the good wii games are not that.

I will now take a moment to pick apart your statement and find all the things that are wrong with it.

You say that the wii isn't a good system, but I think that given the amount of people saying otherwise and the enjoyment my friends and I get playing it prove that not to be the case. Yes, there are games that are "good for the wii," but there are also games that are "good". It has genuinely good games. Even Yahtzee's admitted that, and on multiple occasions, usually in areas other than Zero Punctuation, but occasionally there too. Your use of the word "amusing" implies that you think you're somehow more intelligent than, and above people who, own a wii, which is a very egotistical and shallow thing to think. It implies that you've viewed from a distance, but never actually attempted to enjoy the wii, because of that formerly mentioned state of mind. Plenty of us play all the consoles, especially in a college environment (I know that's the second time I've brought that up - I'm not trying to shield behind that fact, it's just that it makes a good example and statistic sample), and have therefore had enough experience to formulate a good opinion on all consoles. Naturally, this becomes biased based on your closer friends, so if all your friends like the PS3 and make fun of the Wii, you probably will too, much like how in high school for me everyone had the same console and everyone who didn't was wrong for some reason. You keep saying things like "wiiwhores," which gives me pause to wonder if you didn't notice that not everyone defending the wii made an invalid argument, in much the same way that most of the people who attack it do. It also supports my theory of your opinion I got from the word amuse. And, as a good segway from that, those attacking the wii, "open mockery/telling them they're wrong" is a poor argument, and one that is generally formed when the attacker can't think of any other reasons to support his own view, much the same way politicians attack each others' credibility when there's nothing wrong with their opponents' policies. Next, you seem to be confusing the meanings of "listen" and "becoming convinced." I listen to the ideas my friends have about studying. They're all different. I don't agree with all of them. But I listened to them. After hearing them, I decided, based on my listening, that I would disagree with most of them and only agree with my friend who got good grades all the time.

Finally, to say that it doesn't "bother you none" is quite an apparent hypocritical and commonly used argumentative shield, that is used to make the poster feel as though he isn't taking the argument as seriously as a fanboy, when he most definitely is, otherwise the comment would be unnecessary. If it doesn't bother you, you wouldn't have posted that in a REPLY to your previous post. Clearly, something bothered you a bit.

And another thing: the first thing I said in my quote of your post was in agreement to something you said - that you shouldn't have to adjust default settings to make a game playable. I agreed with you, and then you called people who defend the wii idiots (or implied it, anyway). What's that say about you? Hmm?

Maybe you should have done more listening. And also, don't do this: <3. It makes it hard to take you seriously if you're trying to make a point.

Sweetheart, the very fact that you went into such a long winded diatribe about your beliefs upon my experiences with the Wii and, /personal/ opinion on the system indicates you care far too much.

And, if I so choose, I shall use a <3 when and where I please.

I have played the Wii, point of fact. I have a lot of experience with the Wii, and the systems competing with it. I don't think it's that great of a system, fin. Calling me a troll and heading into a paragraphs long explanation of why my opinion is wrong and how I clearly believe i'm far above the rest of you just means you have more time on your hands than one is led to believe in your diatribe, and that perchance you have nothing better to do than make personality judgements based off what is essentially, nothing.

Essentially, one can view all your superfluous extrapolations upon what i'm saying as you in turn trolling me and being a hypocrite. The fact remains, you're taking some text on a forum, from a random comment to heart more than I, and perhaps the majority of people who've commented on this thread - however I won't pretend I know how they think and feel, just as you've decided to pretend you know how I do.

Meanwhile, I shall keep to my particular writing style and giggle about how much it seems to matter to you.

Alas, the internet is such a wonderful thing, non?

Damn right I take this more seriously than you.

I never said I didn't. I just said you were pretending you didn't take this seriously. And since you're post is also very long, I seem to have been right about at least that.

You should look up the definition of "troll."

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion." - wikipedia

Troll posts are generally short. People who say "yea, th wi iz teh suckzorz" or something are trolls. You and I are not those. After viewing your later posts I rescind that comment the view that you are one.

Also, damn right I take this to heart. It hurts when someone says you have a poor opinion. It is human nature to try and convince them otherwise, to some degree. Yahtzee once said that if you like a game and see a poor review, it shouldn't bother you, but I think it should, since no one likes to be told, especially by someone important, that they are incorrect. I am not trying to convince you that the Conduit is a good game. I am trying to see if you refute my other points, rather than attacking my credibility, something I realized I did to you, and am doing now, but only in addition to making what I think are valid points.

Those valid points:
The wii is a better system than Yahtzee gives it credit for.
There are many very good games on the wii that are more than comparable to those on other systems, albeit the other systems may have better third-party games.
Third-party developers have yet to understand how to make a game that utilizes the wii to its full capacity.
People who make large-scale slanderous statements tend to come off as people who are condemning something they don't know enough about, and don't wish to learn more of, i.e., ignorant.
People who lead busy lives don't actually need that many games, although that's not an excuse for bad games being made.

I gave a few possible explanations for such behavior. I have yet to get one from the slanderers. Perhaps you'll be the first.

And as for the free time, my internship ended Friday. I have a large pile of wii games I'd like to get to playing, but I'm still in my NYC apartment and the wii is at home. I realize there was no way for you to know that about my current scenario, but the point is still valid.

But I am impressed by your rebuttal. Well done (not sarcastic, I promise). I usually get more mind-numbing filth.

To enter a matter of semantics, I can still reason you were trolling due to the fact that any stance upon myself is essentially off-topic, for I really don't matter to the issue of the game at hand.

As for the stance of me not caring. You bet I don't. I don't care whether someone agrees with me or not, for I stand strong with my opinions and no one has to like them.

Now, here's where we shed some light on the fact that I don't really think /any/ of the systems are that great, currently. I could go play yet /another/ sequel of a game I have for a previous version of the aformentioned system, or I could save myself some time and money and just play the version of the game I know I love and be done with it.

The wii being a better system than Yahtzee giving it credit for remains a stance of opinion, and a completely refuteable matter depending on who you talk to.

The stance of games being good or not - again, a purely opinion based matter, and not something anyone can quantify as 100% true or false. But - let's put it this way, just because the graphics on the other systems are better, does not mean games are good. Nor does a lack of graphical quality. Else the classics would never be replayed.

Third-Party developers are something you can only speculate on. Unless you're one of them, you can't tell me 100% they don't understand how to utilize the system to it's full capacity.

People who condemn etc etc - We're still in the matter of opinions and speculation. No one can say for sure what my, or anyone else's experiences are like(but of course ourselves) and it all remains electronic text on the internetz.

Annnnd finally, I know many busy people who have a lot of games. Just because you don't, doesn't make that the precedent.

Explanations? Ha, easy: I have my opinion, you have yours. Tres simple, non?

Off I go! Whoosh! HAPPY ENDINGS FOR ALL.

Fine, fine. We're not going to make much more progress. I was going to post something else, but then decided to give it a day and see about it later, and ultimately decided that you've at least gone from "the wii is shit" to "I personally, despite being in the minority, think, for reason I believe are good, that the wii is shit, even though I can see why people would think otherwise based on the types of enjoyment they are able to extract from it, as well as their specific circumstances."

I personally hate the phrase "agree to disagree," but that's just how it goes sometimes.

Oh well. I tried. At least that other guy with the big metroid picture likes the wii.

I find it amusing you've placed me in the minority. Far more amusing that there supposedly was progress to make. You weren't going to make a convert out of me no matter how hard you tried.

Besides which, what's the point?

I mean sure, if you worked for Nintendo and were super passionate about your job, I could sorta see it. But man, c'mon, you're some random dude on the escapist forums and i'm some other random person. None of this matters in the end. None of this(at least, it shouldn't) has any real impact on our lives.

Not to mention, it's a complete waste of energy to try and make someone you'll never meet, and never know in any real sense convert to your way of thinking.

I really must suggest you try and stop extrapolating such things as how my stance may or may not have changed - or even try and put the conversion into words. No offense, but you're really not that good at it and end up throwing a lot of nonesense out that ultimately reflects moreso what you'd /like/ the case to be, rather than what it actually is.

If not, oh well.

Again, you're right. I said this. You need to pick up on this. It's more about the process of arguing than the result, and you, as a forum poster, should know this, and do. I do too, but the energy spent here is not wasted. I feel I was able to stand up to a position I didn't agree with and defend it without having to lie to myself. And yes, you are in the minority. There are easily more nintendo fanboys out there, granted, they don't come to forums as often, but sales figures tend to indicate that, as do personal real-life experiences on a national and global scale. I know I haven't been EVERYWHERE, but it always seems to me that more people have a Wii, even of the "hardcore" gamers.

In a different post, I went into greater detail about irony in forums. The gist of it, though, is that, to argue for the meaninglessness of posting in a forum on a forum is very ironic. A lot of people do it, and I, like perhaps the minority of others, see it as very silly. So I won't say it's meaningless, though the results may be, because I am getting something out of this, even if it's just argumentative skill. In your case, it's argumentative skill against someone who has a genuine opinion and has multiple defenses of it.

As far as extrapolation goes, your tone seemed to imply what I had thought, and was a case I had been satisfied with. I am again unsatisfied, as if you still think the wii can only be fun for anyone if they're drunk and/or retarded, than you're also right in that this arguement has at least been meaningless for you.

I however, have learned that you are the kind of person who will never change his opinion no matter how good the evidence to the contrary to his stance may be. I may be more arrogant than I should be, but at least I'll admit it when the opponent has raised an interesting, or even highly valid point.






But this is all tangential. So to finish, pride aside, do you still think that the wii is a genuinely bad system? And before you answer, make sure you've read Yahtzee extra punctuation from the conduit - I don't know if you already have or not.

Once more you're incorrect in your speculative extrapolations on the type of person I am.

And I see you must have missed all those posts about people lamenting the fact they even bought a wii. Going by sales figures really doesn't amount to anything, in light of this. Going by the experience of you and your friends/family/close encounters3) amounts to nothing more than circumstantial evidence. You said it yourself, you haven't been everywhere, and if you're with other people who are fans of the wii(Nownow, let's not imply I said /all/ of nintendo's products were crap, as the monicker of nintendo fanboys indicates. Since, i'm only on about the /wii/), then of /course/ their opinions will closely match your own and the rest will seem a minority. And quite frankly, if these people aren't posting here, then their relevance to this thread and this 'argument' is really quite moot.

Yes, i've read that article. No, my opinion doesn't change. No, you're incorrect that my opinion will not change what-so-ever - but this doesn't mean it's going to change because /you/ absolutely adore the wii. You can enjoy it all you want, doesn't mean I, or anyone else will. And, I wasn't arguing about the meaninglessness of posting in a forum, I was arguing about the meaninglessness of you trying to force me to accept that your opinion is superior and that I should start adoring the wii post haste. /That/ is pointless.

All this shows is that you fail to accept that other people don't like the same thing(s) you do.

And honestly, do you /really/ think Tiakinz is the monicker of a /boy/? Dear lord, i'm a /girl/ dude. Get it right.

 

[Tiakinz]

DURRHURRHURR I R TEH SM4RT I USe TEH W4LLZ-0-73x7!!!

Fix'd.

No offense, but you're really not that good at it and end up throwing a lot of nonesense out that ultimately reflects moreso what you'd /like/ the case to be, rather than what it actually is.

That's what all Internet Smart Guys do.
They're even worse than the Internet Tough Guys, no?

Si.

 

[vp1850]

what are you talking about metroid prime 3 being "crappy"? that's probably one of the best games for the wii. if you think that game is bad then what would you call a good wii game?

 

[Timeforunleash]

I love it how people actually NOT buy a game because Croshaw thinks it's shit. That man can just make any game shit. Even Halo 3, which was a great game, and he thinks of Painkiller and Portal to be great games? God.

I'm resisting the urge to club you around the head for the Portal comment. I'm not adding anymore fuel to the Halo thing becuase people should know my stance on that.

Wake up, people! Croshaw's reviews are most of the time funny and well thought out, but his opinion is biased in a way that he HAS to find a game shit, otherwise, his style of reviewing would fail. This makes his opinion shit, because they're biased.

 

[Ralgarog]

I just spent 20 minutes typing up something that makes sense, but this site decided to log me out and it's coded so that you lose your message if you were logged out as you hit post.

Allow me to paraphrase.

Game does look like a 360 game on my SDTV (Looks like shit on my friend's 52").
What you said about the controls is stupid because they can be adjusted in under 10 seconds.

I have not played my wii in 6 months because most of the games on suck, however this was a good mindless shooter.

You don't have to amplify flaws and intentionally overlook fixes to your mistakes in order to make something seem bad.

So you need to fix the broken control system yourself and have a fancy Tv in order for it not to look total shit, makes sense.

The control is not broken. It's overly simplified. With something like the wiimote there is no -one control fits all!- like the Xbox360 controller or a Ps3 Controller. Halo3 has tight controls for people that has experience using the xbox360. To a new person playing the xbox360 and playing halo 3, the controls would seem like shit to them.

Everybody has their own height, way of wackily flailing their arms around, turning and tilting their remote so the only sensible way to make a wii shooter is for you to adjust it to your own personal need.

And how is a normal not fancy SDTV a Fancy TV? SDTV = Standard Definition Television.

 

[Beldaros]

Since when has Secretary been obscure?

That was the first thing I thought. I suppose for the under 18's though, it would be.

 

[Secumfex]

Yeah Wii bashing like always, I liked the Conduit, tho.

Anyways, something that came to my mind is something completely different.
In this Video (and like so often all over the intarwebs he used German at one point, by showing "und natürlich" on the screen.
I had to laugh, since I'm German and I have no problem understanding all that stuff.
How ever, what jumped to my mind is whether you non-Germans do actually understand it most of the time, and whether there is any reason for you to use German all the time, and is it actually for the Lulz?
Certainly I've not seen some one use Norwegian or Polish in that way and to that extend.
Well anyways, kind of stupid question.

 

[mixmastermind]

God I love Tex Murphy.