Zero Sum Characters

[zelda2fanboy]

I had a strange dream last night where I was doing college English homework. The topic was a concept called "zero sum characters," which were characters in works of fiction that have little to no effect on the plot of the overall work. The classic examples given were Rosencrantz and Gildenstern. I woke up realizing that this was entirely made up (and I just googled it to make sure), but it didn't stop from trying to come up with good examples for this nonexistent assignment.

So far, I have Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, Steve Buscemi in Barton Fink, and Steve Buscemi in Con Air. Are there any other good examples I'm not thinking of? It's best when they are played by famous actors or have lots of scenes and dialog, rather than some random extra like the one kid in Harry Potter 3 who isn't in any of the other movies.

Also, Jar Jar Binks doesn't count because without him, Qui Gon and Obi Wan never would have been able to get to city by going through the planet core. They would have been stuck there. I also believe he voted to put Palpatine in charge in the second movie.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Lambert, from Alien.

Spoiler

Her sole purpose is to be 'the audience,' reacting as the audience should react, mostly by breaking down into tears. Arguably, she causes the death of Parker, but that's not really plot advancement.

Spoiler

He would have likely died at the same point in the movie, and in the same way, regardless of her inaction.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Lambert, from Alien.

Spoiler

Her sole purpose is to be 'the audience,' reacting as the audience should react, mostly by breaking down into tears. Arguably, she causes the death of Parker, but that's not really plot advancement.

Spoiler

He would have likely died at the same point in the movie, and in the same way, regardless of her inaction.

Excellent example. I often forget she's in the movie, even in a cast of six people. I always like her, but she never leaves much of an impression.

 

[HardkorSB]

Speaking of the Alien franchise, Charlize Theron in Prometheus.
The most important things she did in the movie were having sex with Idris Elba and dying in a really stupid way.

 

[Frission]

Basically a background character. If a character actually adds charm or humor or dramatic tension to a work of fiction or is otherwise useful in the enjoyment of work, if not in the advancement of the plot, are they really useful?

I can't think of a character who added nothing at all to a work. Then again, that may be because they were just not that memorable.

 

[TheRiddler]

To be completely honest, I don't remember Lois doing anything plot-relevant in Man of Steel. Could be wrong, but the movie didn't feel like it needed her in it, plot-wise.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Don't get this at all really.

EVERY character that is brought up in a story/movie/game has SOME sort of purpose, no matter how small, or else they wouldn't/shouldn't be there.

 

[GabeZhul]

I don't like your terminology. "Zero sum" means that what is given and taken is the same, so say, in a poker game, one has to lose money for another to gain it. I just don't see how that relates to inconsequential characters...

However, there could be a completely different and arguably much more interesting way "zero sum character" could be interpreted: A character that gives as much as he/she takes later.

Say, Aizen from Bleach: When he first appeared as a villain he was one of the most terrifying, resourceful and cunning antagonists in manga history and his beautifully set up reveal arguably marked the high-point of a beloved and critically acclaimed series... and then by the end of the next arc he became a vain, stupid, pointlessly overpowered idiot whose year-long final battle broke the series in half and nearly killed the series.

Or the "zero sum character" could go the other way as well: Raiden from MGS was originally designed as a big throbbing middle-finger to the fans who, in Hideo Kojima's opinion, "didn't get Snake", but by Revengeance he is now a powerful, badass cyber-ninja.

 

[Schadrach]

I had a strange dream last night where I was doing college English homework. The topic was a concept called "zero sum characters," which were characters in works of fiction that have little to no effect on the plot of the overall work. The classic examples given were Rosencrantz and Gildenstern. I woke up realizing that this was entirely made up (and I just googled it to make sure), but it didn't stop from trying to come up with good examples for this nonexistent assignment.

So far, I have Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, Steve Buscemi in Barton Fink, and Steve Buscemi in Con Air. Are there any other good examples I'm not thinking of? It's best when they are played by famous actors or have lots of scenes and dialog, rather than some random extra like the one kid in Harry Potter 3 who isn't in any of the other movies.

Also, Jar Jar Binks doesn't count because without him, Qui Gon and Obi Wan never would have been able to get to city by going through the planet core. They would have been stuck there. I also believe he voted to put Palpatine in charge in the second movie.

Wasn't there an episode of Big Bang Theory that basically argued that in Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones himself was this? Just looked it up, titled "The Raiders Minimization."

 

[Parasondox]

I had a strange dream last night where I was doing college English homework. The topic was a concept called "zero sum characters," which were characters in works of fiction that have little to no effect on the plot of the overall work. The classic examples given were Rosencrantz and Gildenstern. I woke up realizing that this was entirely made up (and I just googled it to make sure), but it didn't stop from trying to come up with good examples for this nonexistent assignment.

So far, I have Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, Steve Buscemi in Barton Fink, and Steve Buscemi in Con Air. Are there any other good examples I'm not thinking of? It's best when they are played by famous actors or have lots of scenes and dialog, rather than some random extra like the one kid in Harry Potter 3 who isn't in any of the other movies.

Also, Jar Jar Binks doesn't count because without him, Qui Gon and Obi Wan never would have been able to get to city by going through the planet core. They would have been stuck there. I also believe he voted to put Palpatine in charge in the second movie.

Wasn't there an episode of Big Bang Theory that basically argued that in Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones himself was this? Just looked it up, titled "The Raiders Minimization."

Yeah they did bring that up. It weren't just them either. Other people over the internet examined the movie and came up with the same or similar conclusion. Whether Indy was there or not, the Nazi would have still chosen the wrong cup and all die. Plus, if he weren't there, they would have still been digging in the wrong area. They made a lot of interesting points however fanboys were pissed.

CAPTCHA: "how interesting" - see even the Captcha is thinking about it.

 

[DoPo]

Don't get this at all really.

EVERY character that is brought up in a story/movie/game has SOME sort of purpose, no matter how small, or else they wouldn't/shouldn't be there.

Erm, not all of them. Even then they don't necessarily impact the plot - some can be included to flesh out the world, or for other reasons, however, OP clearly states "effect on plot" which is obviously different than what you are suggesting. For example, in Terminator 2, there is a biker guy who mocks and later douses his cigarette in Arnold Swarzenegger. What's his purpose? To make Arnie look tough and be sort of "first obstacle" for him. What would happen to the plot, if he wasn't there? Nothing.

 

[Ryu-Kage]

Have you ever seen Disney's "The Hunchback of Notre Dame"? Quasimodo talks to three comic-relief gargoyles throughout the movie, but while they are constantly shown on camera, they add absolutely nothing to the overall plot of the movie. The only character who interacts with them is Quasimodo, and a prevailing theory claims they might be his imaginary friends. The most they ever interact with anybody else is throwing some bricks and embers at some guards during the climax, and even then, these guards are inconsequential henchmen.

I've often thought about ripping the footage from this movie, editing out every scene with those gargoyles, and showing it to see if anything of value was lost from Hunchback of Notre Dame (I'd call it the "Unpetrified Edition").

 

[lacktheknack]

inb4 EternalNothingness with MLP/DBZ characters.

OT: There was the-guy-who's-name-I-forget in Splinter Cell. He even managed to get himself killed at the end of the Russian mission, yet I'm pretty sure he had literally nothing to do up to that point other than "inject/extract the agent" (he wasn't even the one flying the chopper, ffs).

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

Yeah they did bring that up. It weren't just them either. Other people over the internet examined the movie and came up with the same or similar conclusion. Whether Indy was there or not, the Nazi would have still chosen the wrong cup and all die. Plus, if he weren't there, they would have still been digging in the wrong area. They made a lot of interesting points however fanboys were pissed.

I think you're mixing movies there; in Raiders, they were looking for the Ark, and if Indy wasn't around they would either a) keep digging in the wrong spot, or b) Find the Ark and still kill themselves. No cups involved in the franchise until the Last Crusade.

OT: How about the siblings from Dragon Age II?

Spoiler

At the beginning, one or the other dies based on your choice. Afterwards, IIRC, Bethany goes to the Circle of Mages, and Carver joins the Grey Wardens. Neither of them do much when they are around, and they aren't really a driving motivation for Hawke.

 

[Parasondox]

Yeah they did bring that up. It weren't just them either. Other people over the internet examined the movie and came up with the same or similar conclusion. Whether Indy was there or not, the Nazi would have still chosen the wrong cup and all die. Plus, if he weren't there, they would have still been digging in the wrong area. They made a lot of interesting points however fanboys were pissed.

I think you're mixing movies there; in Raiders, they were looking for the Ark, and if Indy wasn't around they would either a) keep digging in the wrong spot, or b) Find the Ark and still kill themselves. No cups involved in the franchise until the Last Crusade.

OT: How about the siblings from Dragon Age II?

Spoiler

At the beginning, one or the other dies based on your choice. Afterwards, IIRC, Bethany goes to the Circle of Mages, and Carver joins the Grey Wardens. Neither of them do much when they are around, and they aren't really a driving motivation for Hawke.

Sorry my bad. It's been a while and this is what happens when I can't sleep. Thank you though.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park

Goldblum's character distracts the T-Rex at the risk of his own life while Grant rescues the two kids from the overturned car. If Goldblum hadn't been around the T-Rex would've gone after Grant, who lured him first with a flare, and probably killed him before killing the kids (who didn't use the initial distraction to escape). Goldblum's character also indirectly causes the lawyer's death by leading the T-Rex near his hiding spot.

It's all here.


Also even if all of his warnings are completely disregarded by Hammond, he does provide a counter argument - and the concluding message of the movie - to Hammond's hubris: "Life finds a way".

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Yeah they did bring that up. It weren't just them either. Other people over the internet examined the movie and came up with the same or similar conclusion. Whether Indy was there or not, the Nazi would have still chosen the wrong cup and all die. Plus, if he weren't there, they would have still been digging in the wrong area. They made a lot of interesting points however fanboys were pissed.

I think you're mixing movies there; in Raiders, they were looking for the Ark, and if Indy wasn't around they would either a) keep digging in the wrong spot, or b) Find the Ark and still kill themselves. No cups involved in the franchise until the Last Crusade.

OT: How about the siblings from Dragon Age II?

Spoiler

At the beginning, one or the other dies based on your choice. Afterwards, IIRC, Bethany goes to the Circle of Mages, and Carver joins the Grey Wardens. Neither of them do much when they are around, and they aren't really a driving motivation for Hawke.

Spoiler

Carver goes Templar, unless you take him or Bethany down into the deep roads. Then they get tainted and die, or join the Grey Wardens if you brought along whiny emo Mage Anders.

Spoiler

The choice on which dies depends on your character class, the sister who is a mage dies if you are also magical and Carver dies if you went with the two martial classes. The whole sibling leaving event was poorly done, especially with Carver who joins a group dedicated to keeping Circle mages down and hunting rouge one, when you are one of those 'dangerous' apostates. Bethany's 'joining' of the Circle is similar, having spent years running and hiding trying to keep her from being found rendered naught.

Bioware didn't do that good a job with the two siblings if they didn't go with you for the finale of Act 1, so your view of them isn't far off.

As for the OP's question I'm a little confused, do characters 'superfluous to the plot' include those who while not a part of the main plot are used to flesh out the world and provide context like the example [user]DoPo[/user] included? Sure they were a speedbump that simply showed how badass and inhuman the Terminator is and provide a reason to have clothing and weapons, but cutting them out would raise questions as to how Arnie got equipped and showed the unstoppability of the T-800 series who at that point the average audience member wouldn't know was a good guy or not.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

Yeah they did bring that up. It weren't just them either. Other people over the internet examined the movie and came up with the same or similar conclusion. Whether Indy was there or not, the Nazi would have still chosen the wrong cup and all die. Plus, if he weren't there, they would have still been digging in the wrong area. They made a lot of interesting points however fanboys were pissed.

I think you're mixing movies there; in Raiders, they were looking for the Ark, and if Indy wasn't around they would either a) keep digging in the wrong spot, or b) Find the Ark and still kill themselves. No cups involved in the franchise until the Last Crusade.

OT: How about the siblings from Dragon Age II?

Spoiler

At the beginning, one or the other dies based on your choice. Afterwards, IIRC, Bethany goes to the Circle of Mages, and Carver joins the Grey Wardens. Neither of them do much when they are around, and they aren't really a driving motivation for Hawke.

I dunno why i feel the need to correct some of the things about the siblings when hardly anyone gives a shit about DA2, but i'm still going to

Spoiler

I think which one dies is based on your choice of class; If you pick Warrior or Rogue then Bethany survives, if you pick Mage then you're stuck with Carver. I assume it's to balance out your party. Also: Both of them can join the Grey Wardens, that just depends on whether or not you take them with you into the Deep Roads. If you didn't bring Carver down there he'd just join the Templars and go away like Bethany with the Circle.

OT: I too would have to throw myself in with the lot saying there are no completely insignificant characters in fiction. Some characters might completely lose their purpose in the established world, but at some point they'll at least have made some tiny change.

One of the posts above mentioned DBZ characters, but everyone there served a purpose at some point. Master Roshi, Oolong, Krillin, Baba, Kami, Kai, Yamcha, Tien. Even Chiaotzu and Yamcha's cat made some change in the original series even if their importance died off in the Z-series.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

I dunno why i feel the need to correct some of the things about the siblings when hardly anyone gives a shit about DA2, but i'm still going to

Spoiler

I think which one dies is based on your choice of class; If you pick Warrior or Rogue then Bethany survives, if you pick Mage then you're stuck with Carver. I assume it's to balance out your party. Also: Both of them can join the Grey Wardens, that just depends on whether or not you take them with you into the Deep Roads. If you didn't bring Carver down there he'd just join the Templars and go away like Bethany with the Circle.

I'm a fan of the game, so I appreciate the correction. I only did two playthroughs, and I guess it's obvious which choices I made.

 

[TheSYLOH]

That Cartoon Snow Man from Frozen.
Aside from one line of dialogue that could have been delivered from any other character... he was pointless.