US 2024 Presidential Election

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Thaluikhain

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I really don't understand what's going on in these people head. What did they think was going to happen? Do they seriously believe that all the millions of illegal immigrant are blood thirsty criminal? They don't understand that if that was the case, the US would just be some sort of crazy mad max society? Don't they ever go out and notice that, gee weez, there's a glaring lack of murder being committed considering that there's several millions of murderer out loose.
I fear there's little easy answer to this, beyond a cop out like "cognitive dissonance" or something which might be correct, but isn't very informative.

I might suggest that people seem to have a discontent between politics and "real life". The same way that Obama can be the anti-christ, but you still have to go to work on Monday like normal. But I'm just guessing.
 

Agema

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But he hired them, presumably he noticed they weren't white at some point. Did he think he lucked out and got the 5 non criminal and the rest are all criminal? Did he not care that they were criminal? Its just so bizarre.
Well, you have to bear in mind a lot of people are not very well-informed or - at least in certain areas - smart. So you can believe that some of these people have managed to convince themselves that there are two types of illegal immigrant:
a) "Respectable" ones they employ
b) Drug dealing, tax-dodging, welfare scrounging, thieves and rapists pouring over the borders.

So when they hear Trump rant about (b), they think that's who ICE are coming after but that somehow the (a) they're employing will be left alone.

* * *

In a sense, this is why the "leopards eating people's faces party" concept is so powerful: people vote against their own interests all the time. Not only do they do this, but political parties attempt to convince them to. The original case that created this meme was a British woman who voted for the Tories and regretted it, but it's also worth bearing in mind the Tories had marketed their policies in a manner liable to trick her into doing so.
 

Schadrach

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Meanwhile, a supporter of Trump lost a third of his workforce after someone dropped a dime.

See, I like this. Make ICE crack down on MAGA-run businesses, make it clear they get what they voted for.

In other news: Trump's new phone is stupid and impossible.



Bonus points for the "5000mAh long life camera". The idiots who get this probably signed up for Patriot Mobile.
Other than the long life camera bit making no sense, what makes it impossible? I mean it's a Trump product so he certainly won't deliver on what is stated and if you buy one you'll be lucky to get a 20 year old flip phone and a can of gold spray paint. If he were being slightly less evil this could just be a rebrand of a couple year old phone by one of the lower cost Android phone manufacturers with a paint and/or engraving job. The pictures are all photoshop though, since I think the camera bump is from an iPhone. Definitely not made in the US unless he means final paint job and/or engraving done in the US since cheaper Chinese android phones are basically the only ones with USB C and a headphone jack together, and most of the other given specs are pretty common.
 
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Agema

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Other than the long life camera bit making no sense, what makes it impossible? I mean it's a Trump product so he certainly won't deliver on what is stated and if you buy one you'll be lucky to get a 20 year old flip phone and a can of gold spray paint. If he were being slightly less evil this could just be a rebrand of a couple year old phone by one of the lower cost Android phone manufacturers with a paint and/or engraving job.
Yes, I'm pretty sure it's not difficult to buy a simple mobile phone design (or quickly put one together with a halfway competent team), and then send the details to a Chinese factory to get it made and slap basic Android on it. Also perhaps hence the mid-range price - no way just anyone can make a premium quality phone without some serious skills and investment, but almost anyone can bang out something middling and generic.

What you can be sure is that in order to pay Trump his cut, that phone will be 10-20% more expensive than its actual quality as a phone. And possibly even worse than that.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I really don't understand what's going on in these people head. What did they think was going to happen? Do they seriously believe that all the millions of illegal immigrant are blood thirsty criminal? They don't understand that if that was the case, the US would just be some sort of crazy mad max society? Don't they ever go out and notice that, gee weez, there's a glaring lack of murder being committed considering that there's several millions of murderer out loose.

I really want some simple factual question on the ballot box that you need to answer before your vote is counted, think like "what is the population of the US" and "what is the crime rate", just to weed out people who live in alternate universe and completely disconnected from reality.

Also, why isn't he in trouble for hiring illegal?
Do you talk to normal people or just listen to people on the internet/social media? The normal person can tell there's an immigration issue and it has nothing to do with crime. When I have a co-worker that's super nice and pretty much completely non-political commenting on all the immigrants at the park in tents when they are having family barbecues there (when that's never happened before), the normal people have noticed the problem and it's not some fake manufactured problem. People aren't scared of immigrants. The same very small group you see exaggerating about crime, you have that very small group on your team saying crime is not an issue when it does indeed jump up. Have you forgotten all the gaslighting about crime from the left claiming that it went down after covid? But they fail to point out (obviously), that crime is still much higher than normal levels and it just went down from a high peak. You think normal people are going to think crime isn't an issue when you have stores closing because of crime, locking up normal everyday products, or not allowing teenagers in without parents?

Can we ever stop acting like the extreme sides of the discussion are the normal people?

Also, the country has been against increasing immigration for a very long time now. Why are you guys here so against democracy from happening when it's something you don't agree with? Essentially, you are all so pro democracy for stuff that you want but when you are in the minority, you act like democracy shouldn't be a thing anymore.
 

Schadrach

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What you can be sure is that in order to pay Trump his cut, that phone will be 10-20% more expensive than its actual quality as a phone. And possibly even worse than that.
Kinda my point though - importing a cheap Chinese android phone that already exists wholesale, and doing repackaging and a paint job in the US to claim it's "Made in the USA" would easily cover most of the bases and probably be more than doable at that price point, even assuming that Trump personally gets at least 10% off the top and they need to turn a profit.

Except they'll probably blame Biden for it.
Hard to claim that Biden loves immigration and open borders and would never crack down on illegals and is also somehow responsible for ICE cracking down on illegals half a year after he left office. I mean, I know some of them like to just shout buzzwords and feels, but even they are aware that Biden is no longer President. In fact they won't shut up about it.

For the farmers, H2A visas exist and are probably what a lot of them will move to - more expensive than illegals but cheaper than paying American workers. Somewhat better protections for the workers too. Also one of the few kinds of visa handed out with no limit so long as there's work available. These are in some ways similar-ish to H1Bs that you're probably more familiar with but specifically for temporary or seasonal agricultural work.
 

thebobmaster

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Hard to claim that Biden loves immigration and open borders and would never crack down on illegals and is also somehow responsible for ICE cracking down on illegals half a year after he left office. I mean, I know some of them like to just shout buzzwords and feels, but even they are aware that Biden is no longer President. In fact they won't shut up about it.
The thing is, for pretty much anyone on either side politically, they are very good at taking credit for anything good that happens during their party's presidency, while claiming they inherited a problem for anything bad that happens. Case in point: when the economy improved at the beginning of Trump's first term, that was proof that Trump was a successful president economically. When it began to go down at the beginning of his second term, it was lingering problems from Biden's presidency, having absolutely nothing to do with Trump tossing around the word "tariff" like confetti.
 

meiam

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Do you talk to normal people or just listen to people on the internet/social media? The normal person can tell there's an immigration issue and it has nothing to do with crime. When I have a co-worker that's super nice and pretty much completely non-political commenting on all the immigrants at the park in tents when they are having family barbecues there (when that's never happened before), the normal people have noticed the problem and it's not some fake manufactured problem. People aren't scared of immigrants. The same very small group you see exaggerating about crime, you have that very small group on your team saying crime is not an issue when it does indeed jump up. Have you forgotten all the gaslighting about crime from the left claiming that it went down after covid? But they fail to point out (obviously), that crime is still much higher than normal levels and it just went down from a high peak. You think normal people are going to think crime isn't an issue when you have stores closing because of crime, locking up normal everyday products, or not allowing teenagers in without parents?

Can we ever stop acting like the extreme sides of the discussion are the normal people?

Also, the country has been against increasing immigration for a very long time now. Why are you guys here so against democracy from happening when it's something you don't agree with? Essentially, you are all so pro democracy for stuff that you want but when you are in the minority, you act like democracy shouldn't be a thing anymore.
Chalk one to alternate reality disconnected from real world I guess.
 
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Well somewhat surprisingly it seems Arnold hasn’t completely lost his mind yet, even though most of the country has -


Judging by those faces…clearly it wasn’t the response they’d hoped for.
 
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thebobmaster

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I have not always agreed with Arnold Schwarzenegger, far from it, but I've always respected the fact that he never felt the need to compromise his own feelings in order to make nice. However he feels about something, he'll let you know.

1750209451635.png

Although I wouldn't exactly say this is proof that he's one of the only sane people, considering he's not addressing the completely legal immigrants that have gotten deported.
 
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I have not always agreed with Arnold Schwarzenegger, far from it, but I've always respected the fact that he never felt the need to compromise his own feelings in order to make nice. However he feels about something, he'll let you know.

View attachment 13413

Although I wouldn't exactly say this is proof that he's one of the only sane people, considering he's not addressing the completely legal immigrants that have gotten deported.
Well that’s the inevitable catch-22 when the vast majority are arriving without the same consideration and discretion that’s expected in deciding who gets sent back. It’s unequivocally clear the majority didn’t do so legally, and whatever the plight it doesn’t negate the fact that it’s not fair to those waiting their turn the legal way.




Where was the national outrage and whatnot back then.
 
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thebobmaster

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Well that’s the inevitable catch-22 when the vast majority are arriving without the same consideration and discretion that’s expected in deciding who gets sent back. It’s unequivocally clear the majority didn’t do so legally, and whatever the plight it doesn’t negate the fact that it’s not fair to those waiting their turn the legal way.




Where was the national outrage and whatnot back then.

90% of the deportations back to El Salvador had no criminal record. I'd link the Bloomberg article for a more "reputable" source, but it's behind a paywall.

ETA: I am only saying this to try to show my own point of view. I am not going to use this as a gotcha, I'm not trying to do a gotcha with it, I just think this will explain why I feel the way I do. I am against the death penalty. It's not for any moral outrage reasons, or for what I see as hypocrisy in saying "You don't deserve to live for deciding other people don't deserve to live". I am aware of those, but they aren't why I'm against the death penalty.

The main reason I am against the death penalty is because I don't see the risk of executing someone wrongly convicted of a crime as being outweighed for a sense of justice. If you convict someone for a crime they didn't commit, they are sentenced to life in prison, and it turns out they are innocent...that's still not good, but you can at least make some sort of amends by releasing them, redacting their sentence, and preferably recompensing them for what they lost in prison. If you execute someone, and it turns out a year later they didn't do it, what can you do? "My bad" to their family?

The reason I say all this is to say this: even if it was 90% illegal immigrants that got deported to El Salvador and 10% legal immigrants, that's about 9% too many for me to consider this justified.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Hard to claim that Biden loves immigration and open borders and would never crack down on illegals and is also somehow responsible for ICE cracking down on illegals half a year after he left office. I mean, I know some of them like to just shout buzzwords and feels, but even they are aware that Biden is no longer President. In fact they won't shut up about it.

For the farmers, H2A visas exist and are probably what a lot of them will move to - more expensive than illegals but cheaper than paying American workers. Somewhat better protections for the workers too. Also one of the few kinds of visa handed out with no limit so long as there's work available. These are in some ways similar-ish to H1Bs that you're probably more familiar with but specifically for temporary or seasonal agricultural work.
"Hard to claim"... and yet they do ALL THE TIME.

Nearly everything that comes from Trump's mouth is hard to claim, but here we are again.
 

Agema

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"Hard to claim"... and yet they do ALL THE TIME.

Nearly everything that comes from Trump's mouth is hard to claim, but here we are again.
To an extent, I'm just sort of exhausted by it all.

Trump and his immediate lackeys were bad enough in his last administration, but now it feels like it's a complete free-for-all where increasingly large numbers of people in power don't think they have any responsibility to be honest about anything, no matter how important it is, no sense of shame, and the other arms of government are impotent or unwilling to rein any of it in. I think there is a problem here, because functional democracy needs voters with informed decision-making based on a common sense of reality.

But they know that this constant assault of bombast and untruth is overloading, disorientating, and exhausting, that's why they are doing it. It destroys resistance. It might destroy a great deal more.
 
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Silvanus

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Well that’s the inevitable catch-22 when the vast majority are arriving without the same consideration and discretion that’s expected in deciding who gets sent back. It’s unequivocally clear the majority didn’t do so legally, and whatever the plight it doesn’t negate the fact that it’s not fair to those waiting their turn the legal way.
Vast majority of what group?

It's definitely not the foreign-born population, in which about 23% are unauthorised (49% naturalised citizens, 24% permanent lawful residents, 4% temporary lawful residents)-- and that 23% includes people who arrived by an approved route but are awaiting pending asylum claims.

SR_24.07.22_unauthorizedimmigrants_2.png

It's also not the group of Venezuelans that the administration is deporting to CECOT, in which 50 of the 90 whose method of entry is known arrived legally.
 

Casual Shinji

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Hope China stays resolute in not handing the site over.
Haven't they kinda already? I've never been on tiktok, but I remember people saying it got a lot more conservative right after the ban was (not) enforced. And considering the ban came about and was constantly brought up due to tiktok allowing pro-Palestinian sentiments to run free, and no longer hearing DC going ape over that I can only guess something was done behind closed doors about that as well.

Again, almost completely unfamiliar with the site, but I have noticed a shift in how people talk about it since the start of 2025.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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more souls for the grand soul harvest, courtesy of the gavelkind, my liege. the ancient ones I can already feel begin to stir beneath the pustules of your firstborn's writhing flesh

kenneth copeland jumpscare cameo included
For Peter, the father of the deceased child and a member of a Mennonite community in West Texas, the death of his child was God’s will. Many in the Mennonite communities of Texas and across the United States do not vaccinate their children, and their anti-vaccination stance is in line with their general religiously informed practice of eschewing modernity and its technological advances. But it is not merely the few sectarian Mennonite communities that still exist in the United States that have taken a stance against vaccination. Mainstream evangelical and charismatic congregations that embrace much of the modern world have also embraced anti-vaccination beliefs. This episode explores the relationship between conservative Christianity, anti-vaccination beliefs, and contemporary right-wing politics.

Sources:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/texas-measles-outbreak-death-family/681985/

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/tex...o-died-in-measles-outbreak-say-no-to-vaccine/

https://www.christianitytoday.com/2013/09/measles-outbreak-megachurch-kenneth-copeland-vaccines/



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...pray-sermon-trump-televangelist-a9448561.html

https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/202...over-vaccine-mandates/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...evels-in-schools-state-low-rates/81975293007/


For many years, the threat of measles, a deadly disease that spreads more rapidly than COVID and regularly took thousands of lives a year, had been effectively eradicated in the United States due to the widespread acceptance of vaccination. The death of a child from measles in West Texas was the first in over a decade and it came as a shock to the American medical establishment that is now grappling with a disturbing reality: the chief public health bureaucrat is a bonafide anti-vaxxer. This episode will explore the genealogy of anti-vaccination beliefs in the United States and how they spread into mainstream politics.

Sources:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1200696/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8802588/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1123944/

https://time.com/7205900/anti-vaccination-movement-history/

https://historyofvaccines.org/getting-vaccinated/vaccine-faq/vaccination-exemptions

https://historyofvaccines.org/blog/timeline-of-vaccination-mandates

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-68106-1_2

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/rfk-jr-plandemic-funding-1235173801/

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...-vaccines-most-of-them-ought-to-be-voluntary-

https://time.com/5175704/andrew-wakefield-vaccine-autism/

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/the-evidence-on-vaccines-and-autism

https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/...axxer-who-fueled-montreals-smallpox-epidemic/

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/plague-the-red-death-strikes-montreal-feature

https://www.cascadepbs.org/2020/05/seattle-always-had-anti-vaxxers-even-during-smallpox

https://www.cascadepbs.org/mossback/2025/02/history-vaccine-skepticism-1920s-seattle-rfk-jr